US schoolboy to visit North Korea‎

To oozyism

NK is unlike Afghanistan/Iraq, though the American presence there is strong.
its more like East German thing, to uphold the border. I repeat, its a different thing, calm down your USA anger. South Korea NEED USA to be there.

If I'm a soldier, better in North Korea than in those 2 other country. At least I have a reason to stay.

To cloudbreak
That is some news, I forgot about those Koreans in China. But I think the shade will reveal the true color after few hours there. Anyway take care during your visit (when possible) and never ever yell "Yay USA" while there.

Tips: always coin everything to word "Juche" and treat the Great Leader (or his pics ) like your great great grandparent,

The young man's plan is admirable but the situation is far more complicated than setting a peace forest in the Demilitarized Zone. People of the North will remain in shackles under the watchful eye of a despotic dictator. Moreover, food will be given to the Armed Forces as they await their glorious war against US Imperialism; as the people toil in the countryside subsisting on roots, grass, and rats. It is a sorry state of affairs in North Korea. That can be agreed upon with all politics and semantics aside.

As with any dictator, Kim is not going to turn down a photo op and more ink in the international media. Have to reinforce the so called "Cult of Personality." Dictators from Adolf Hitler to Saddam Hussein have loved media attention. So, this visit if it does indeed occur; will benefit Dear Leader first and foremost and will have nothing to do with reconciliation or peace on the Korean Peninsula. Lofty goals they may be for this young man? However, I applaud him for taking an active interest in international relations and restoring peace in his embattled homeland. He is putting his money where his mouth is. We can learn a lot from this young man.

All we do is banter back forth in the comfort of our homes and in the cozy confines of a recliner, but what have we done individual to promote peace, understanding, and tolerance? Chances are probably not much in most case, but conversation. I am just as guilty I can talk with the best of them about the issues but that is all it comes down to. Just more banter back and forth. You go boy, and to Hades with the naysayers!

reply to post by Jakes51


The thing that we won't agree on is the cause behind the sad state which N-Koreans are living in. It seems no one wants to blame the US for implementing the sanctions against N-Korea, but love to blame Kim for every little problem in that country.

Call everything "labor camp", so that it sounds like "death camps", that way everything is Kim's fault

Western propaganda in regards to N-Korea has deep roots, you need to WAX it off.

reply to post by oozyism


Aid was sent to North Korea and yet the people were still faced with famine. The United States has been a contributor to North Korea in the form of energy and food provisions since the mid-90's, and contingent on the notion that they dismantle their nuclear program; which they did not.

Since 1995, the United States has provided North Korea with over $1 billion in assistance, about 60% of which has paid for food aid and 40% or so paying for energy assistance.

www.fas.org...

By 2002, aid was stopped and relations have cooled because the North continued to partake in its nuclear program.The US was not the sole contributor, but other nations as well. One simple question, if billions of dollars in aid was sent to North Korea from the US, China, Japan, and South Korea; why did millions starve? Where did it all go? I can only assume it went into the storage facilities of the military and Dear Leader's personal stash. The man is no good and is out for himself. He is a delusion mad man and a spoiled brat as far as I am concerned.

As his people are living in stone-age conditions eating roots out of the ground as he indulges in the finer things.

The country's economy has been devastated since the early 1990s and millions of people live on the edge of famine.

That has not deterred Kim from indulging his eccentric tastes. He allegedly imports £350,000 of cognac a year and eats lobster, caviar and sushi. He spent millions on a fleet of Mercedes Benz luxury cars and spends his time watching Hollywood movies such as Rambo or Friday the 13th.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

The sanctions were reinstated to take this way from Dear Leader and his lackeys. It gets better. As he has all this stuff and his fingers tips; his people have nothing of the sort and are restricted from it.

No one inside North Korea would ever hear of this excess. Kim has banned mobile phones, newspapers, the internet and books. In 2004, he brought in a new criminal law, penalising anyone who tried to bring in outside music. Talking about his successor is banned too.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Just another two-timing politician. They are everywhere from the East to the West. For you to have any empathy for this diabolical monster is quite baffling, but to each their own? I have to respectfully disagree on your assertions, but I appreciate your reply.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by Jakes51]

reply to post by Jakes51


Jake, when there is sanctions, who do you think is effected?

You have to be kidding yourself to think that the N-Korean economy would thrive with all these sanctions imposed on it. And don't use Nuclear Bomb as an excuse for the sanctions because the US has 100X more than N-Korea.

Let's not forget, not long ago the US did the same exact thing against Iraq, when sanctions were imposed against Iraq over a million Iraqi babies died in direct result of those sanctions.

Humanitarian aid doesn't help the economy Jake, I can guarantee that.

We all know US is at war with N-Korea, and for some reason doesn't want peace, if it did, it would already propose a peace treaty, instead of point nukes at N-Korea and seeking provocation.

and please don't post propaganda, as I said before many times in ATS, anti N-Korean propaganda is extreme and deeply rooted within Western media. So much BS has been put forwards that now we have absolutely no idea which one is BS and which one is Real.S.

Think about it, why hasn't there ever been an uprising in N-Korea? There was even an uprising in Iraq, remember? When Saddam gassed Kurds and Shiits?

That was when the US was Saddam's best friend



Telegraph doesn't make any sources clear, read the article again. In University if we don't cite our sources, we would be charged with plagiarism and sent in front of a board to decide whether it was intentional or not.

Telegraph doesn't look professional to me, you need more than that.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Jakes51

 

Jake, when there is sanctions, who do you think is effected?

Of course the people are affected. Sanctions are a messy affair and I personally see no use for them. Instead of punishing the leaders directly they punish the whole. It is so backwards it is sickening!

However, most of the despotic rulers are so insulated from the everyone and everything that the only way to feasibly hold them accountable is by sanctions if war is not a feasible alternative. Hopefully, it smokes out the indiscretions of their leaders and the people in some capacity can address the issue. Still, I find them as a morbid solution to international problems.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Jakes51

 

You have to be kidding yourself to think that the N-Korean economy would thrive with all these sanctions imposed on it. And don't use Nuclear Bomb as an excuse for the sanctions because the US has 100X more than N-Korea.

You are correct and the economy is not going to thrive. Perhaps, that is the purpose? Apparently, the international community is attempting to smother the leadership and at the expense of the people which is wrong. However, that seems to be the case and the North Korean leadership are no angels by any stretch.

The nuclear bomb is a great excuse for sanctions. The Korean Peninsula is a volatile place and has been at war since 1953. It gives North Korea more leverage in bullying its neighbors with threats of war and devastation. Plus they are a threat to its neighbors, besides South Korea. Even North Korea's own sole benefactor, China, is at a state of unease over it.

The Chinese government has been trying to achieve denuclearization on the Korean Peninsula and opposes proliferation of nuclear weapons in an effort to maintain peace and stability in northeast Asia.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com...

. . . China fears North Korea's sabre-rattling could prompt or justify Japanese remilitarisation, further defence spending in the South or increase US military support for Seoul – shifting the regional balance of power to its disadvantage. Any military skirmish could have a devastating impact on Sino-South Korean relations.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Both snippets are about China's views on North Korea's nuclear weapons testing. Personally, I don't see the need for the North to have nukes. If attacked by the US or South Korea, China has all the nukes they need to deter any hostilities from their neighbors. As for the US having nukes and a lot of them? Yes they do, but does that make it okay for nations with unhinged leadership to possess them? Why not arm every nation with nuclear weapons regardless of how fanatical or distant they are from any reasonable human conduct? Better yet, lets turn the world into one raging inferno.

Given the unhinged nature of the Kim Jong Il's rule and his frequent outbursts; his possession of nuclear weapons is very dangerous and sanctions are a reasonable response short of war. Kim's record speaks for itself and it is not all peaches and cream. He seems to be a delusional man, and for that kind of person to have the power to annihilate an entire city at their very whim is very threatening for people who live near them.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Jakes51

 

Let's not forget, not long ago the US did the same exact thing against Iraq, when sanctions were imposed against Iraq over a million Iraqi babies died in direct result of those sanctions.

Humanitarian aid doesn't help the economy Jake, I can guarantee that.

We all know US is at war with N-Korea, and for some reason doesn't want peace, if it did, it would already propose a peace treaty, instead of point nukes at N-Korea and seeking provocation.

Yes, sanctions on Iraq were a bad thing and I am aware of the perils suffered by the people. It was a violation, and if anything; it only bolstered Saddam's image in the eyes of the people in regards to his opposition toward the West. Saddam was batter and bruised significantly at the end of the First Gulf War, but he needed to be dislodged from leadership.

He was a maniac and would resort to any means necessary to secure his monopoly on power. Apparently, the international leaders thought by weakening his access to goods on the international market; it would put a strain their economy and anger his people, which would strengthen opposition groups within the country as they set out to dislodge him. That belief failed miserably, because he annihilated the Shia opposition in the South and any other groups opposed to his rule. Plus, he was able to broker back room deals to enrich himself at the expense of his people's suffering during the Oil for Food Scandal.

Yes, the US and its allies are in state of war since 1953 and no official peace was brokered. They only have a ceasefire at the moment, but that can change at any moment. All sides are at a constant state of readiness. You mention provocations, and how the US seems to be provoking the North? However, the North has had a hand at provocations as well. From border incursions into South Korea, abductions in SK and Japan, and a steady stream of violence along the DMZ. There are numerous occasions to validate that. So, both sides are guilty of a provocation and that happens when two combatants are at a constant state of readiness.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Jakes51

 

and please don't post propaganda, as I said before many times in ATS, anti N-Korean propaganda is extreme and deeply rooted within Western media. So much BS has been put forwards that now we have absolutely no idea which one is BS and which one is Real.S.

Think about it, why hasn't there ever been an uprising in N-Korea? There was even an uprising in Iraq, remember? When Saddam gassed Kurds and Shiits?

That was when the US was Saddam's best friend

 

Telegraph doesn't make any sources clear, read the article again. In University if we don't cite our sources, we would be charged with plagiarism and sent in front of a board to decide whether it was intentional or not.

Telegraph doesn't look professional to me, you need more than that.

 

Propaganda seems rife these days, but when has it not been? That is why we are discussing it here and sifting through the nonsense to find a rational view on current events. As for propaganda and North Korea? There is no need for propaganda concerning North Korea. Everyone knows they are unhinged by the outrageous threats and statements made by the government. Plus, the facts speak for themselves. NK is a police state, people are brainwashed, scores have succumbed to famine and deprivation, and it is currently run by an insane despotic ruler. That is not propaganda but fact. There is information all over the place to verify what was mentioned above. Why has there not been an uprising in North Korea? The people have been isolated from information, policed constantly, and practically starved into submission and complacency.

As for the source I used and your concerns over it? Allow me to post a few more about Kim's penchant for the finer things in life.

The few personal details that are known document his affection for the finer things in life, including lobsters and Hennessy VSOP cognac, and a reputed 20,000 tape film library.

news.bbc.co.uk...

. . . Kim Jong Il also loves to drink a certain Hennessey cognac that sells for $630 a bottle in Korea. "He is the largest customer over the last 10 years, averaging between $650,000 and $720,000 a year in purchases -- while the average [North] Korean earns only about $900 a year.

www.cnn.com...

Robert Einhorn worked on nonproliferation for the State Department. He was a head negotiator on a diplomatic mission to North Korea six years ago.

ROBERT EINHORN: One dinner was European-style with French food and extraordinarily expensive French wine. And I think all of us were saying to ourselves: This is really wretched excess for a regime that is essentially starving its own people.

marketplace.publicradio.org... /no_more_toys_for_kim_jong_il/

Here is a recollection of Kim lust for opulence from his former personal chef, Kenji Fujimoto.

Fujimoto said he was dazzled by Kim's massive liquor cellar, stocked with nearly 10,000 bottles. There was Johnnie Walker Swing scotch and Hennessy XO cognac. To satisfy the Dear Leader's demanding tastes, Fujimoto was sent on international shopping trips, hauling back winter melons from China, pork from Denmark, caviar from Iran and Uzbekistan, but especially the finest sushi from Tokyo's Tsukiji fish market, the largest in the world.

www.washingtonpost.com...

So, I hope these other sources alleviate your concerns? In my personal opinion, I think Kim Jong Il is bad news along with his lackeys. They are depriving North Korea from growth and prosperity. Therefore, I have to respectfully agree to disagree with much of what you have said. However, hopefully, we can agree that North Korea is a screwed up place?


[edit on 16-8-2010 by Jakes51]