US Judge: OK to extract confessions by threatening rape

reply to post by Section31


And again: this boy had no information whatsoever. His torturer was not looking for information regarding any impending attacks.

reply to post by Section31


If you knew they had info for sure then we need to look at methods of extraction.

But this is the US. They have no idea of anything and just go around picking up anyone who wheres pajamas out and a rag on their head.

reply to post by crichton13


Are you sure you replied to the correct thread? All but 2 posters in this thread are arguing against what this American did.

Originally posted by Thepreye
Whilst I agree with your sentiment, you have to remember the judge isn't giving a personal moral view of ethics he's giving his view on the laws of the USA which after recent changes allow such practices and more.

Doesn't matter. A law is either lawful or it isn't. It isn't lawful because an act says it is. A REAL judge would know this.

[edit on 12-8-2010 by mryanbrown]

reply to post by camaro68ss


that is why the solution to war is not "scaring the sh* out of them". The solution is to stop fighting.

We funded the regimes we overthrew. There is obvious bad karma in that. Like a cop selling drugs to someone they are busting.

[edit on 12-8-2010 by sassyncute]

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by camaro68ss
your forget the fact that the guy getting thretened to be anally raped whats you dead! they want you dead, your wife dead your friends dead and your nation dead. so why does it matter if he gets tortured? HE WANTS YOU DEAD! but you still love him and pretect him because he is a human and should not be harmed. thats BS

[edit on 12-8-2010 by camaro68ss]

I would rather risk my life and be free than give up all my rights and be safe. That is the cost of freedom.

What do Mr. Franklins quotes have to do with your freedom and being safe? what fear are we living in to give up our rights. tourtering this guy is not giving up any of my or your rights? your lost

torture is not a successful way of retreiving truthful information.

As to the what would you do senario, Use chemical. CIA has many chemist who have patent on chemicals that induce the truth. Outside of chemicals there are also new patents for tech that can use sensors to prtray images in the mind.

This is the futur, torture is the past. Just as someone must have asked, "So so many peope are againt salvery, but what would you do to make the economy successful without it"

Under serious threats anyone could say anything, we have truth serums and lie detectors for christ sake! Bad intel is worse than no intel at all. Deprogramming the radicals would be far more effective and has been proven effective against radical cults.

This will be used by terrorist organizations to boost recruitment efforts.

Ask yourself : What Would Jesus Do?

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by camaro68ss



What do Mr. Franklins quotes have to do with your freedom and being safe? what fear are we living in to give up our rights. tourtering this guy is not giving up any of my or your rights? your lost

firstly, torturing (spelt like that, not with an E) is an abuse of a Human Right. So it does impinge on our freedom as a people as a Humans.

Just like when terrorist blow people up its an abuse of our freedom.

Both affect our right to live in peace and without fear.

[edit on 12-8-2010 by spiritualzombie]

reply to post by Section31


The fact is... the scenario in your head was put there by Cheney, Rumsfeld and FOX's 24. You have been programmed to think that way.

The interrogators at Gitmo were considered to be some of the very best at getting information. This was before the use of 'enhanced interrogation techniques'. These professional interrogators resisted the use of 'enhanced interrogation' because they knew those techniques yeilded unreliable intel.

So yes, even Gitmo had some standards. It was Cheney, Rumsfeld and their lawyers who went against the advise of seasoned professionals.

Originally posted by Tyrannyispeace
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

War is HELL.

Anyone involved, that has not caused or deliberately been involved in atrocities, is given afforded war protection. PERIOD.

Sorry, if we would have prosecuted everyone in WW II for what is going on now, we would have had to kill EVERYONE on the German side.

War is WAR. What we are doing is NOT WAR. It is something TOTALLY different.

I know you feel kind of the same way I do. Kind of.

But this # has to stop, they are setting US up to be the NEXT terrorists.

I see it, do you?

War is hell. you are right. That is why we should not unleash it.

And i agree it has to stop. The "next" terrorists will be US citizens. I assume that is what you mean? If so, then that is what i believe, too. Technocratic Totalitarianism.

reply to post by camaro68ss

haha one, i would not let that happen two, im glad to find another peace loving hippy i can steel stuff from and will not fight back when the end times come.

Ohh Jeez, another know it all wannabe who thinks he knows everyone he talks to on the Internet. You don't know me, you will be surprised what would happen to you if you try to steal my stuff

I clearly said I won't rape nor kill your daughter because I'm at war with you, that doesn't mean I won't punch your face from front to back.

Im happy for the men that pulled that triger and droped those bombs. they saved 1,000,000 american lives so we would not have to invade the island of japan.

You are glad that hundreds of thousands of innocent people who nothing to do with your fight was murdered? Yesh, that is why I said you should be in a dungeon with Mr. Hitler. Terrorism is terrorism, just because the nuking of Japan was massive American terrorism, doesn't make it any different than 9/11, hence targeting innocent people.

its people like you feminizing the men of this country and turning them soft.

Once again, you don't know me, you don't know who I'm, and surely you don't know anything about my life. I'm soft ^^! hahaha

if threating the boy worked and saved lifes then good. he should not be on the wrong side of the fight trying to kill us. you forget that that boy will kill you the one chance he gets but you still love him and defend him. you are the one with the mental illness.

Ohh Jeez, threatening the boy worked and saved lives, ohh cool, I guess you didn't even read the OP. He wasn't threatened to save lives, he was threatened for confession of a crime which apparently there is no evidence of him committing in the first place. There is something called innocent until guilty, but then again, it only applies to one gigantic group of murderous haters who have no regards for human life.

And what does hitler have to do with this and why would i be locked up with him? If we fought WW2 the way we fight wars now you would be speeking german right now or in a death camp waiting to die because you belive in peace and not fighting back.

Hitler had the same mentality as you, ,mass murdering innocent people for a greater cause. Sorry dude, I don't have the same mentality as you, nor Hitler.

Once again:
[size =5]I won't rape or kill your daughter because I'm at war with you[/5]



[edit on 12-8-2010 by oozyism]

Originally posted by againuntodust
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

..Now I'm no military genius, but if your main method of terrorist investigation involves putting things in peoples' butts until they tell you they are a terrorist, you probably are not doing a good job.

I don't normally bite on the humor angle, but that snippet kind of made my day. It's hard to see a flaw in your logic as expressed above.

OK to extract confessions by threatening suspects with rape

Khadr, now 23, is accused of throwing a grenade in 2002 that killed a US soldier. He also is alleged to have been trained by Al-Qaeda and joined a network organized by Osama bin Laden to make bombs.

Very interesting.

Hypothetical: If a 15 year old walks into a school, throws a grenade killing several students, and then confesses to making bombs and joining a terrorist group, what do you do about this case?

Is killing a soldier defending his country (or another country) any different from killing another person?



[edit on 12-8-2010 by Section31]

Originally posted by camaro68ss
What do Mr. Franklins quotes have to do with your freedom and being safe? what fear are we living in to give up our rights. tourtering this guy is not giving up any of my or your rights? your lost

I didn't realise i used Franklins quote, although looking at what i typed i realise it's similar to something he said. Torturing the guy without due process as i believe the american system calls it is betraying the system that upholds everyones rights. If you allow one persons rights to be tramped then others can be.

So i understand where you are coming from, basically as long as your rights aren't being tramped it's all ok, well that's incredibly short sighted. What's that old poem -


"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

That is why you should be concerned but blind patriotism is rarely rational.

reply to post by crichton13


Sorry to tell you this, the GOVERNMENT is NOT the people.

We are wrong in NOT standing up to the government, you are RIGHT in that aspect.

What are we to do, rush the BEST military ever devised?

If we do it with non strategic enterprise, we will be destroyed just as EVERY other component our military has come against. Yes, the Vietnamese defeated us, Yes the Afghan have slowed us down. Us being the military.

The idiocy of our populace though, that is our problem. They do not even realize they are the pawns of this whole thing.

We ARE trying to implement knowledge.

That does NOT give you ANY peace though.

We cannot attack without a united front. Help us if you can with knowledge. That is the ONLY way!

reply to post by oozyism


no i dont know you but i do know one thing. if i was running a country and you were running a country i bet my country with my tactics would wipe your country out any day.

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