Hellfire caves photo

Hi all,

I was at the Hellfire caves the other weekend doing an investigation and one of the people I was with took over 200 photos.

On one, and only one photo, a mist was captured.

Our immeditate thoughts were breath vapour, but we took a closer look and decided the mist cloud was a bit too far away.

I then used ACDSee to adjust the levels a little to try to see if anything was hiding in the picture and to try to establish the density and distance of this mist a bit more.
Here is the original image;
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0df4258daa8b.jpg[/atsimg]

So it looks just like a mist cloud.. but look a bit closer.. It wasn't until I messed around with the levels that I began to notice a shape in the mist..
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/05550ed18430.png[/atsimg]
and here it is cropped;
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/169671c46aa0.png[/atsimg]
And cropped from the original, untouched image...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/56d4d946aaf1.png[/atsimg]
And this is in the negative;
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cfa410a85a59.png[/atsimg]

So what do you think?
Matrixing (ie a trick of the light) or has the image of someone been caught as they walked away from the camera whilst looking over their left shoulder?

Remember, there was over 200 photos taken and a lot of video footage and we have not found a single breath appear on any of it. Yes, the caves have a chill to them but not cold enough to enable a cloud of breath that size.

So, what do I need?
Well, if anyone has the expertise, I need a proper size of the mist and distance from camera, and everyones opinion as to what this really is.

Is it just an unexplained mist or is it paranormal in nature or a large cloud of breath?

You know.. I am usually pretty skeptical of ghost type images however this one seems different. It gave me the chills a little bit and that never happens. Not sure that means anything in the grand scheme of things but..

Very Interesting photo.

I have no idea.

Just giving this a bump so that it doesn't disappear.

Why are these caves called "Hellfire Caves" by the way....?

Ghost Club photograph the mist at Hellfire Caves, West Wycombe. But no report been published.

www.ghostclub.org.uk...

Wow so many Hellfire Caves documentation at youtube
www.youtube.com...

I'm going to be busy with this one. So many research need to be done. But fascinating.




[edit on 10-8-2010 by EasternShadow]

Here is a very strange article on the Hellfire Caves...

There has been much speculation about the layout and the design of the Hellfire Caves. This has been complicated by the fact that the names of the chambers have been changed at least several times. For example, the alcove nearest to the entrance has been called, the tool store, the steward’s cave and the Intersect of Ra. Paul Whitehead’s Cave was once known as the Robing Room (circa 1958). The Miner’s cave was once called the Buttery and the area of caves and pillars near what is called Franklin’s Cave was once just called the Catacombs.

www.aquiziam.com...

reply to post by GArnold


This is the reason I had to share this pic on ATS. It is one of those images that knocks you hard once you realise what you could possibly be looking at.

The entire "person" is literally way too defined to be just simply matrixing, although that cannot be ruled out...

It would be wonderful to determine this as paranormal though.

Apparently, this image is a photo of breath;
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/aee4d71ce34d.jpg[/atsimg]

Interesting photo. I can not conclude any opinion but as has been stated, a good photo.

reply to post by Tripple_Helix


It's to do with the "Hellfire club".

Sir Francis established the infamous Hell-Fire Club which subsequently held chapter meetings in the Caves and whose members included Lord Sandwich, John Wilkes and other senior aristocrats and statesmen. Sir Francis later became Chancellor of the Exchequer, and Benjamin Franklin who was a close friend visited West Wycombe often and is rumoured to have taken part in the underworld club.


The caves long winding passages lead deep underground for over 300 feet, through the great Banqueting Hall and past various other chambers. In these areas there are scenes that depict various members of the original Hellfire Club.

www.ghostfinder.co.uk...

Very cool! Not sure what it is.

Thanks for sharing, I will be looking at it myself in photoshop. When you adjusted one of the pics the shape made me think of another members thread on here.

Creepy.

reply to post by mblahnikluver


Thanks for that mblah.. I have no idea what photoshop can do in compariosn to ACDSee, so it will be very interesting to see what you you can find/confirm/debunk etc etc.

Am waiting with antici pation for your efforts

Interesting picture. No one has said it yet, but I guess some one has to ask eventually.

So, for the sake of asking before anyone else, was anyone smoking at all while or just before the picture was taken? How cold was it? Could it possibly be someones breath?

That said, while matrixing needs to be strongly considered, looking at the first picture, it appears that the anomaly is moving away from the camera...? I say this because if you look at the floor the mist seems to be almost sweeping it's way across the floor away from the camera...

The second one( in the cemetery), I have to admit.... It looks like heavy smoke. I am not seeing a "person" in either photo, to be honest...

I can maybe see in the first, how one might see a person forming, but in the second I am not seeing it. Could you explain where/how you see that?



[edit on 10-8-2010 by gimme_some_truth]

Interesting image,

Judging from the mist at it's lowest point near the floor or ground it looks to be 8 to 10 feet from the camera.. Pretty close encounter if it is paranormal..

I wonder if it could be light fragmentation coming from the walls reflecting some of the light from the flash...not strong enough reflection to make it a obvious flare, but enough to create many dim lens flares all at once...

Any photographers in the house?

Interesting photo it could be breath condensation caught in the flash, its closer to the camera than you think

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b752d0cbf94f.jpg[/atsimg]

Interesting pics.

The first one is particularly interesting IMO especially since there mist appears to be moving across the floor and then rising in the center suddenly as has been mentioned already.

Also it seems like you can make out what looks like a face in the mist as well weirdly, something which I'm sure is simply matrixing, but it's interesting all the same.

Here's the image of the face, look at the very center, you can clearly see it. (one which I edited so you can see it a bit clearer)

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8f0a36a7f6a9.jpg[/atsimg]

Here it is again.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7e388a074300.jpg[/atsimg]

Whether it's simply matrixing or the real deal I'm not sure but I thought it's worth bringing up anyway.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
So, for the sake of asking before anyone else, was anyone smoking at all while or just before the picture was taken? How cold was it? Could it possibly be someones breath?

Paranormal Investigator reports, the ambient temperature is 10 degrees but occasionally there is a drop of 3 - 4 degrees.

www.paranormalinvestigationsltd.com...

I know I must sound like an idiot- but may I ask what matrixing is?
Anyone.....

Sorry- I don't know a lot about this stuff. Well, actually I don't know anything about the paranormal..

reply to post by Tripple_Helix

Sorry- I don't know a lot about this stuff.

Everyone has to learn about it somewhere.

What is matrixing

So, basically matrixing is seeing a face for example (like the one in my previous post) where there really is no face present.

So it’s just the brain trying to make sense of something random like the example given in the post below for example.

Matrixing can be heightened by unfamiliar surroundings, poor lighting, and events being witnessed via peripheral vision. Of course, when hunting ghosts these are the situations an investigator encounters; it is equally true of witnesses, who are disadvantaged by being unaware of matrixing/paredoilia in the first place. Not every ghostly image or encounter can be explained with reference to matrixing, but knowing the phenomena exists can be a useful tool in the arsenal of debunking techniques.

(Same link as above)

This is a typical matrixing image.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by Rising Against]

reply to post by Tripple_Helix


matrixing is what we call seeing images in things where there is nothing to see.... For example, if you look at a cloud and see a car. It is not really a car, it is just a cloud, but it looks like a car.... That is matrixing, more or less.


Rising beat me to the answer

[edit on 10-8-2010 by gimme_some_truth]

"Matrixing" is, I guess, a super fancy name for human brain simply picking up patters in its environment, something we all routinely do.

When the OP author "messed with levels", they effectively increased fluctuations of density in the image, making it easier to pick up shape that our brain is trained to perceive. I see those all the time on speckled ceramic tile etc