Is it morally irresponsible to teach childeren about religion?

Originally posted by Faiol
reply to post by Erasurehead

 

the problem is not about believing in God or whatever you want

the problem involves organized religion that are organizations like Google or any other, they are here to make money, and nothing else

when you have religion and money in the same sentence, I bet there is something wrong

There would be no organized religion if there were no followers.

Organized religion in itself is not at fault.

Children need to be encouraged to think independently. Parent "sheep" creating Children "sheep" only perpetuates the cycle.

reply to post by Faiol


Yeah, I dont trust religions that require a percentage of your monthly earnings, etc. However, I think its perfectly fine to ask for donations. How else do you expect they pay for the building, utilities, pastor's (usually measly) salary, etc? I've been in churches where there was no pressure to donate, if you could and wanted to, you did, and that was that. I refuse to go to a church that requires a tithing.

It isn't about religion for me but about Faith and the desire to seek that which is greater than yourself. I NEVER taught my son about religion because I did not want him indoctrinated, not by anyone. I taught him to seek God in his own way, and test the Spirits. I taught him to pursue the Spiritual, not the religious. I taught him to think for himself.

Originally posted by Baloney
Children should NEVER be exposed to religion. Exposing them to any books and organizations that breed HATE is just wrong. Such behavior should be considered child abuse and should be made punishable by law.

Teaching my children to live their lives according to the teachings of Jesus breeds hate? How so, please enlighten me.

Don't confuse some organized religions that do promote hate with the true meaning of what Jesus was about. Tell me one thing that Jesus taught that promoted hate. You are not even educated on what he was all about to be making a statement like that.

War on the saints
reply to post by Faiol

So these, and the arguments of the OP, are the kind of arguments that will be used to justify the suppression of religion?

I put out a thread recently entitled "war on the saints", and one kind of response was that the suggestion was paranoid.

Some of the contributors to this thread are providing some very useful evidence that the threat is real.





[edit on 10-8-2010 by DISRAELI]

Originally posted by Faiol
reply to post by adjensen

 

YES(NO)

lets explain that religion dont cause any problems by using an example where religion wasnt involved (in your view)

thats smart

so, lets ignore everything else and lets live in this virtual world that is yours where religion is not involved in any kind of conflict

Try reading what I wrote again, since I didn't even come close to saying that.

Or perhaps you are logically challenged by the notion that demonstrating evil done in the absence of religion merely points out that evil is done irrespective of religion, so the subject being discussed is evil, not religion.

Let's simplify for you:

Is evil done in the name of religion? Yes.
Is evil done in ways that do not involve religion? Yes.
Is the greater evil done in ways that do not involve religion? History has shown this to be the case, at least in the last 150 years.

Thus, evil is not caused by religion, and the impact on evil of abolishing religion would not likely be significant.

I'll leave you to sort out the bit about the good that religion does on your own.

reply to post by DISRAELI


The problems superstitions /willful ignorance cause outweigh this "threat" of suppressing superstition.

Second line.

reply to post by Whyhi

Hostility noted.
All evidence gratefully received.
I can link to all this stuff whenever anybody tries to deny it.

Most religions have a pretty basic message, love and respect other people. Nothing wrong with that, this is primarily what we teach children is it not? I think religion is very good at teaching children morals and basic life lessons in a very simple form.

reply to post by Mr Headshot


Hammers and cars are useful items. Religion is useless.

Thats the difference.

Here's my story, you may find it useful.

I was raised as an atheist by atheist parents, but they never preached me about it. Whenever I asked them anything about God they'd answer me with more questions, never a direct answer. We never went to church, only interaction with religion were funerals and going to people's slavas (important orthodox Christian religious practice). We get a lot of what you guys call "down your throat" religious stuff in Schools and in boy scouts as well since I was there for several years. Most people found my "alignment" interesting rather than bad since our church is fairly tolerant (unlike in most Islam countries for example). As a kid I had few weird reactions from teachers when they would realize I know nothing about basic things about "our" church, as if that's mandatory education regardless of your "faith".

After a while, somewhere in my 20s I decided not to call myself atheist any more because I didn't feel like an atheist, I was just simply open minded. People would ask me if I believe in God, because being "Christian" didn't always imply that you actually believe it... much like rest of the modern Christianity. You just, like, go with it. But they'd be in awe on me telling them I'm atheist, because it automatically means not only I don't believe in God but also not in Jesus, or anything he teaches, let alone church. They'd see me as a poor hopeless empty kid believing in nothing, although I'd sometimes say I believe in myself and my family. Strangely after I "decided" not to refer to myself as an atheist no one ever asked me anything about religion or God, especially what I believe in.

Soon after, some 5 years ago (I'm born 1985) I'd start learning about spirituality, ancient philosophies and whatnot. How we have special powers within ourselves, powers of meditation, psi energy, even alchemy. Then I accidentally met a very good friend who led me into "higher" spiritual studies and thoughts and eventually everything would revolve around God, ironically. Even though that person never asked what I believe in or what my religion is, it was just not relevant for anything. So now, I'm as far from being atheist as you can be, far from any religious dogma or any label.

That said, it was good not to be fed any specific religion. It was good that my parents didn't tell me "oh God will fix it" or "you'll go to hell".... Although, for some reason I was always doing my best to respect 10 commandments because I've read them from a colourful Jehovah witness pamphlet lol once and it resonated in me forever on, I think I was 12 or something. My father would love to chat with them about religious stuff (not when I'm around) and then reveal he was an atheist to their shock, but he kept their little books which I then read (he was a book collector so throwing away a book is worst of sins to him). I think you can't just "convert" to an atheist, it takes one to see "his" Church for what it is, an institution. And if there is no other framework laid out for you, an open minded person would end up calling himself atheist in a desperate attempt not to institutionalize oneself. My parents were never religious but had much knowledge of theology, especially my father. Being raised as an atheist though had an effect on me as I still find it hard to understand people who kiss church doors, pictures with saints, or worship statues but consider them spiritual. I understand now that it is simply their way and should be respected as it does no harm. I still don't like seeing it though so I keep away from temples and religious festivals/practices .

Therefore, if you are an open minded, good hearted, smart person, what is there to worry about? What good person would force-feed his kid with religious indoctrinations? You cannot achieve closeness with God if you were brainwashed by your ignorant parents . My story proves not that being an atheist is good, but that it doesn't matter at all. Novadays, I see many people strongly enforcing their "atheistic" views (there is no God, religions are source of evil etc) but those people don't have good intentions, in fact most vocal ones were actually force-fed some religion by their parents. As I said, if you're a good person you need not worry about it.... religion nor atheism is no cause of no evil, a cause of evil is malicious intent, ignorance, apathy and intolerance.

reply to post by Baloney


I see, so the fact that it helps people get through some really tough situations is useless.

Frank Sinatra said "I'm for whatever gets you through the night." I agree with this as long as what gets you through the "night" doesn't keep me from doing the same.

So you would have people kill themselves whom otherwise would live if they could read the bible or the koran or whatever and get through whatever hell they're going through in their own lives.

You would have people quit looking up to the stars with some wonder and imagination and see something great and beautiful and mysterious.

That's the important part, mystery.

Science is fine and dandy, I agree. But it harbors no mystery without a microscope. There is no greatness in that.

Science and Religion are brothers, they're not so different. They are two sides of the same coin.

reply to post by Erasurehead


Ok, I'll give you one of MANY examples to chew on for a while. Jesus said:

26If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26 (King James Version)

[color=cyan]IS THIS APPROPRIATE TO TEACH CHILDREN??!!

Just one of the many gems that the pastor or preacher wont speak about in church. Theres many more!!

You cant just cherry pick the GOOD and IGNORE the BAD. If this is your Gods book, you have to ACCEPT IT ALL.

Do you accept the quote above? Will you teach your children this one??

PLEASE ANSWER, THANKS.

reply to post by Mr Headshot


Thats what PROFESSIONAL and TRAINED counselors are for!!

Religion is fictional stories that have some seriously bad verses unsuitable for children that the devil pastor and preachers INTENTIONALLY avoid at all costs. They just LOVE the donations too much to teach the WHOLE book without CHERRY picking.

Discover the WHOLE book and tell me if it is something to be teaching children!!



[edit on 10-8-2010 by Baloney]

Originally posted by SassyCat

After a while, somewhere in my 20s I decided not to call myself atheist any more because I didn't feel like an atheist, I was just simply open minded.

Nice story. I was loosely raised Christian - but my mom believed you have to walk many paths before you find the right one for you.

I use the term: Spiritual Humanist - - rather then Atheist. I find Atheist confrontational - - and that is not what I want. I am not about defending no-belief in a god. It just is.

Spiritual Humanist: www.spiritualhumanism.org...

It is Morally Irresponible NOT to teach your child religion.

A child needs to reach adulthood versed in all aspects of life.

It is the parents responibility to train their child to become a responable adult.

reply to post by Baloney


So because the Bible was written by people and in it is a mixture of wisdom for the modern day, not so wise things, and things which no longer make sense to modern man it should be completely disregarded?


Take the good with the bad man. You can't have a strawberry colored world. Would you rather tell children that their lives are meaningless in the grand scheme of things and that they are really just going to live for a very short time and then die and their life will have meant nothing to anybody; that they are just some grand cosmic accident in a universe cold and unfeeling?


Want to break a child's spirit?

I'm not a religious man, I don't consider myself "spiritual" or new age or any of that BS BUT everybody is different. Some people do better with books than with diagnosis and anti-depressants.


The crusade against ideas is retarded. I could care less if you tell your kids there is no God and that there is nothing magical in the universe. Just don't tell anyone else they can't tell their kids the opposite.

Originally posted by Baloney
reply to post by Erasurehead

 

Ok, I'll give you one of MANY examples to chew on for a while. Jesus said:

26If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26 (King James Version)

[color=cyan]IS THIS APPROPRIATE TO TEACH CHILDREN??!!

Just one of the many gems that the pastor or preacher wont speak about in church. Theres many more!!

You cant just cherry pick the GOOD and IGNORE the BAD. If this is your Gods book, you have to ACCEPT IT ALL.

Do you accept the quote above? Will you teach your children this one??

PLEASE ANSWER, THANKS.

Nice job of cherry picking yourself there, ace. You could also have snagged this out of Matthew: "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth, but a sword."

But elsewhere in Luke, Jesus is asked how people can obtain eternal life (ie: make themselves right with God) and he replies it's simple -- Love God, and love everyone else. It's a little tough to reconcile those other statements with that, though, so one is left to sort out the differences.

An intelligent analysis would lead to the obvious conclusion that Christ is using hyperbole to emphasize the first part of that "Love God, love everyone" formula. Only an idiot would think that he truly means "hate your father", particularly when one of the Ten Commandments is to not hate your father.

Similarly, his admonition of bringing the sword makes no sense until you put it back in the context of the passage, where it is clear he is warning people that his message will cause immense division among the Jews, which, of course, it did.

In the face of seemingly contrary teachings, one starts with their faith position and works out the inconsistencies based on that, not the other way around.

To answer your question directly, of course I accept that quote and see no reason not to teach it to children in its context, and with the explanation of what it means.

reply to post by brokedown


Yes, all adults should be well versed in every superstition. This is a good idea. Let's teach children about Zeus, Thor, people walking on water, supernatural interventions, the power of talking to yourself in your head to change the outcome of a situation, minotaurs, other mythical beasts...this list could go on and on, yet they all have one thing in common, superstition. As in fantasy.

reply to post by born-indigo


It is morally wrong not to teach children about religion. While religion should not be pushed on anyone, it is impossible to accurately teach history without major discussions of religion, the fundamental beliefs of them and how power shifts, demographics changed and fundamental principals of government have been based on religion.

For example, how could you teach the history of the Ireland without discussing religion and the fundamental differences that led to the strife in Ireland? You can't.