how do the masons here on ats feel about the NWO?

reply to post by stevcolx


Actually you're both half wrong.

The Pyramid is NOT a Masonic figure (don't know about the mythical illuminati, but since it's make believe and misunderstanding, why not...)

The Eye is a Masonic symbol, though we borrow from other sources.

Originally posted by Violater1



You are totally wrong!
Anybody interested in researching Albert Pike, just Google him. He did start the KKK and was the highest free mason.
So much for your disinfo

Wrong. Pike had no involvement in the KKK. The claim is an anti-Masonic hoax.

Also, he was not the "highest Freemason". He was the presiding officer of a few Masonic bodies, but there is no such thing as the "highest Freemason". Each Grand Lodge has its own Grand Master, which is the highest ranking Masonic official within their own jurisdiction. Pike never held the office of Grand Master.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by stevcolx


Sorry mate. But you are way wrong with that statement. The pyramid with the all seeing eye is an Illuminati symbol not American. You need to do a bit more research on this. And that Illuminati symbol originally comes from Europe. The only reason it is on the one dollar bill is because the Illuminati have based their centre of operations in America. And the fact that God does not exist would explain away your eye theory.

Research and ye shall know the truth!!!

Actually, the symbol of the pyramid and eye was never used by the Illuminati. It was invented by John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin.

If Masons want to take over the world or support a NWO it would be an order based on Faith, Hope, and Love. I think that would strongly conflict with any NWO, progressive extreme government control agenda, that might be out there.

I know this for a fact if every man was a practicing Freemason then we wouldnt have need for Government, because the people could govern themselves. Sort of how the United States was formed. Although we have strayed far from 1776.

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Zaxxon
The problem is that I don't think that anyone proven to be a 32nd or 33rd degree has spoken about such things, so how would he be verified?

lol
I was a 32 Deg Scottish Rite FreeMason
and I'm telling ya
IT IS BUNK !!!!

Is that good enough ???

Good enough for me, because I don't believe that the Masons are behind some global takeover conspiracy. If they were then they've done a horrible job for themselves as an international governing institution.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by Zaxxon]

reply to post by Rockpuck

Well, you might not speak for all the brothers, I pretty much agree with you.

Originally posted by stevcolx
Sorry mate. But you are way wrong with that statement. The pyramid with the all seeing eye is an Illuminati symbol not American. You need to do a bit more research on this. And that Illuminati symbol originally comes from Europe. The only reason it is on the one dollar bill is because the Illuminati have based their centre of operations in America. And the fact that God does not exist would explain away your eye theory.

Research and ye shall know the truth!!!

Your own ignorance of the matter is really sad. Read Perfectibilists: The 18th Century Bavarian Order of the Illuminati by former ATS member Terry Melanson. It's the most comprehensive english text on the historical Illuminati. There's absolutely NO evidence that they EVER used an unfinished pyramid in their symbology. The symbol they did use was the circumpunct— a dot in the middle of a circle.
⊙

Other than that, find me ONE reputable source who can conclusively state that it was an Illuminati symbol. That hoax started with William Guy Carr in his 1956 book Pawns in the Game, and has been repeated without research by every conspiracy theorist since then.

So hell, I won't even ask you to find one Illuminati "all seeing eye over an unfinished pyramid" going back 200+ years... I'll make it easy for you. Find me one reference to an Illuminati pyramid that predates 1956. You can't. Research and ye shall know the truth!!!

[edit on 8/10/2010 by JoshNorton]

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Actually, the symbol of the pyramid and eye was never used by the Illuminati. It was invented by John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin.

Not entirely. The first committee with Adams, Jefferson & Franklin did come up with using the Eye of Providence, but the unfinished pyramid wasn't suggested until the third committee with John Rutledge, Arthur Middleton, and Elias Boudinot, and drawn by William Barton.

reply to post by JoshNorton


The circumpunct is the oldest symbol known to mankind. It is also a very simplistic symbol and has had so many supposed symbolic definitions that it is basically worthless! It has been attributed to fertility, astronomy, map making, and early engineering.

Who would have thought that a prehistoric man/ape with a stick could have made such a lasting impact with some silly symbol in the dirt?

Anyhow, back on topic, NWO is kind of like the circumpunct. It can mean so many things. CS often define it as some elite ruling class, and that would be a bad thing, but what if the NWO is a new state of enlightenment and rule by the people? Is that still bad? What if NWO is actually a world without classes and a world where we learn to conserve resources and provide for all of the needy? Still bad?

I am a Mason, and I guarantee that we have no intention of creating an NWO, unless it is a grassroots movement that people take upon themselves to create. We as Masons have no interest in being the ruling party, nor allowing anybody else to be the ruling party.

I have been a Worshipful Master, I know several of the "highest ranking" Grand Masters here in Florida. Had chitlins with some just a month or two ago! I have a couple of very dear friends that have been given 33 degree honors. (For the record there are only 3 degrees in Masonry, and there is no higher lever. Everything else is different Rites and appendant bodies. So, in reality, there is no such thing as a "33 degree Mason.")

I don't think the "NWO" is a real group. Much as the Illuminati isn't a real thing anymore. The NWO is a product of lumping all the tyrannical groups of past and present together in order to vilify them. (IMHO) The world leaders have power. Not actual power themselves. But their supporters. I don't think that any world leaders of major players are independent. They are puppets put in place to hide the identity of their masters. I also don't think that all the puppet masters are on the same page. Thus dissolving the idea of a global NWO. The bad man does exist, and he wants to control everything. But he is many. If everyone could get past their blind hatred of things they don't understand, we as a race of humans could evolve into what we need to be.

Masons have no influence on world affairs. NONE. We as a group only attempt to make things in our direct influence better, ie. local communities and residents. We don't speak of religion or politics in lodge, how would we be able to organize any political agenda? masons are as diverse in their beliefs as any group. We just try not to let that get in the way of friendship.

There is indeed an occult conspiracy that is pretty much headed by the Vatican and the aristocrats of europe. They put leaders in industry, politics, finance, commerce, and media in front of them, but the true leadership comes through them.

Most of the masons here are either ignorant, misled, or lying. And lying is a very usual thing for a gnostic to do, so dont be surprised.

Read up on the 'perenial philosophy' and the traditionalist school. These are the esoteric currents that flow through all religions (excepting Judaism) and which unites all religions.

The core issue is Judaism and the Jewish people. The holy land, Jerusalem, being the symbolic center which teh Vatican through its proxies means to invade and conquer, to establish their temple..

Somehow, also, Mt. Meru of Hindu mythology plays into it. Columbia professor of Western literature Eugene Narret runs a very interesting website called 'Israelendtimes.com' which goes into great depth into the nature of the battle between the west and Judaism. The enormous cultural divide which is symbolized biblically in the personalities of Esau and Jacob. The Kashmir area in Pakistan/India is apparently the spot where the elites intend to establish their world cult center.

Symbolically, it could be understood as this. Jerusalem is located at one of the lowest points on earth, and in fact, the Dead sea is the lowest point on Earth. This symbolizes mans inherent lowliness and insignificance relative to the will of their creator. Conversely, the Kashmir area is surrounded by the Great Himalayas and Pir Panjal mountains, with the Kashmir area being cradled in between. This symbolizes Elohim, powers, which surround the ego (kashmir). This signifies mans desire to serve the Elohim(unconscious forces), symbolized by mountains.

The essential difference between these two mentalities is that the Jewish people and the 7 laws of Noach (called the Noachide covenant) commands that mankind follow 7 basic laws. These being a prohibition against, blasphemy against G-d, idolatry, murder, theft, a prohibtion against eating the flesh/blood of a live animal, a prohibition against sexual immorality and an injunction to establish a just legal system. On the other hand, paganism (which typifies the worlds other religions and is the esoteric philosophy of Islam/sufism and christianity/gnosticism) is about living in union with creation as it is. Good, evil, etc. This means that theyve rejected the legalistic disciplinary purpose G-d intends for man and have like the tower of babel story in the bible indicates, have rejected G-d and have instead chosen to deify themselves as God. Thats what the spirituality of the nations is all about. The fusion of man and god, personified as pharoah, or christ, or buddah, or al khadir, etc.

Many Jewish Misrahim speak of the end times, and theyre amazingly accurate. The midrash hagadol says Esau (the west) will use Ishmael as a sword in the end of days. This obviously refers to the Wests manipulation of radical islam to advance their agenda. A 2000 year old midrash says in the end of days Ishmaelites will have a temple on the temple mount (this was written six hundred years before the dome of the rock was built) and as we see today, this is the case. The Zohar says in the last days, Edom will attack Ishmael , Ishmael will run to Persia and Persia will attack the entire world.” This seems to perfectly describe whats happening today. The west has occupied islamic nations and has provoked the rancor of Islam against the west, which is why 9/11 happened (so teh story goes). Edom has since demonized Ishmael (islam) and Islam wants to see the destruction of Edom (western culture), so Ishmael is totally in support of Persia (iran) who as we know has a leader who believes himself to be the imam mahdi and thus very much intends to incite war betweem Edom (the west) and Islam.

The Zohar goes on to say that eventually it'll become the nations of the world vs Israel.

Originally posted by network dude


Masons have no influence on world affairs. NONE. We as a group only attempt to make things in our direct influence better, ie. local communities and residents. We don't speak of religion or politics in lodge, how would we be able to organize any political agenda? masons are as diverse in their beliefs as any group. We just try not to let that get in the way of friendship.

i dont know how but ,what about the tea party ? was that not orgnised by mason ? what about the french were they not responable for an overthrow ?

please correct me here but i know they were involved in somthing with france i am not sure if it was an overthrow ,but during my conversation with my MM he was telling me all the good stuff masons have done ,and it had somthing to do with france ,witch was for the people ,

reply to post by dontreally


OK? I and the other Masons on ATS are certainly not liars! Also, I personally know some Masons that have reached the highest attainable positions, and they are still regular folks!! No NWO.

Now as for the rest of your rambling post, you put Christianity and Islam on opposite ends of the God/Man spectrum? That is proof that you are full of bologny! Both of those religions have the exact same roots, although some character changes occured after Jesus and Mohammad came into the picture. Islam certainly does not deify a man? And Islam certainly does not allow for blasphemy or border on paganism?

Also, what the hell does topography and elevation have to do with religion? Should I assume that Denver and New Orleans have starkly contrasted religious views because of their elevations?

Originally posted by Nephi1337

Originally posted by network dude


Masons have no influence on world affairs. NONE. We as a group only attempt to make things in our direct influence better, ie. local communities and residents. We don't speak of religion or politics in lodge, how would we be able to organize any political agenda? masons are as diverse in their beliefs as any group. We just try not to let that get in the way of friendship.

i dont know how but ,what about the tea party ? was that not orgnised by mason ? what about the french were they not responable for an overthrow ?

please correct me here but i know they were involved in somthing with france i am not sure if it was an overthrow ,but during my conversation with my MM he was telling me all the good stuff masons have done ,and it had somthing to do with france ,witch was for the people ,

The men who make up the fraternity of Masons are typically of the highest caliber men, and they have certainly helped to shape the world we live in! Even currently there are many great men and Masons at work in the world.

That is a different thing than stating that the fraternity of Masonry is responsible for changes in the world.

One could similarly argue that a University like Yale or Oxford was responsible for the NWO. Many members of those respected institutions have gone on to change the world in innumerable ways, so those Universities must have a nefarious plot to take over the world?

The fact that Masonry attracts intelligent, sturdy, moral men is a testament that it is a good fraternity. The fact that those same men are often recognized by history is another testament to the value of our fraternity!

Originally posted by Nephi1337
i dont know how but ,what about the tea party ? was that not orgnised by mason ?

The lodge records indicate that there was no Masonic meeting that night. Not enough members were available to attend. Guess they had other plans that evening...

what about the french were they not responable for an overthrow ?

please correct me here but i know they were involved in somthing with france i am not sure if it was an overthrow ,but during my conversation with my MM he was telling me all the good stuff masons have done ,and it had somthing to do with france ,witch was for the people ,

It has been suggested by more than one author that the Masons were responsible for the French revolution. Masonry opposes tyranny in all forms. The French revolution resulted in the ousting of a monarchy, and the introduction of civil liberties and other Enlightenment principles. That's one of the reasons tyrants are afraid of Masons. (Hitler rounded us up; Mussolini disbanded Masonry in Italy; Saddam Hussein outlawed us, with death penalty consequences; Franco outlawed Masonry in Spain with a minimum sentence of 12 years in prison; the Vatican excommunicates any Catholics who become Masons. Always interesting to know who our enemies are...

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by dontreally

 

OK? I and the other Masons on ATS are certainly not liars! Also, I personally know some Masons that have reached the highest attainable positions, and they are still regular folks!! No NWO.

Okee dokee. Whatever you say. If youre sincere, than you must not know much about masonry, or the ideology it bases itself upon. Read up on Hermeticism, Gnosticism, Jungian psychology, Catharism, Alchemy, Theosophy, Orphic theology, Sabbatean kabbalah, Bektashi sufism etc. If you havent read this stuff already. I know there are differing views here and there. But the prevailing view, that is, the most prominent, is the gnostic view that nothing is known, and therefore everything is sacrd, even # (so ive read from many gnostics, sufis, sabbatean kabbalists)

Now as for the rest of your rambling post, you put Christianity and Islam on opposite ends of the God/Man spectrum? That is proof that you are full of bologny! Both of those religions have the exact same roots, although some character changes occured after Jesus and Mohammad came into the picture. Islam certainly does not deify a man? And Islam certainly does not allow for blasphemy or border on paganism?

The narrative between al khadir and moses in the koran reveals so much to one aware of the perenial philosophy. What do you think the moon symbolizes? The feminine. The physical, the sexual, the emotional. Do you have any clue how popular homosexuality is in some muslim countries? You should read Jungs letters to his wife when he vacationed in Morocco and Tunisia. Men holding hands is not simply just 'men holding hands'. He even describes a scenario when he was solicited for sex by his arab guide. Islam being against homosexuality is about as sincere as the Nazis being against homosexuality. Yet we know that the Nazis practiced it, as much as the Vatican does and as much as the christian conservative leaders who attend bohemian grove do. Its about the counter intuitive, or, indulging mans most raw craving, which is to be like an animal. Dionyson rites were all about that. Gay sex, foolishness, drinking the blood of animals, etc.

Read up on this
sufism and eros
www.adishakti.org...(sites.netscape.net).pdf
Islam and the divine feminine
Divine femine islam
www.adishakti.org...
Sufi and Sexuality

Also, i didnt say that the nations deliberately transgress all the Noachide laws. Here and there they break all of them, as we know. But the main and biggest issue is law number 5, against sexual immorality, which all religions aside from judaism have either an indifferent or pro attitude towards wanton sexual behaviors, outside the privacy of marriage. Inside marriage, i could care less what a man does with his wife (as long as it doesnt become anal, filatio, or any abnormal sexual practices, which are Tava'ot/offensive to the creator).

Oh, and to appreciate all my nonsensical rantings you have to appreciate the truth of the Torah/5 books of moses.

Also, what the hell does topography and elevation have to do with religion? Should I assume that Denver and New Orleans have starkly contrasted religious views because of their elevations?

Im beginning to wonder if you even know anything about masonry. The occult maxim "as above so below". Ever heard of that? Topography(like all things physical) is simply the physical manifestation of a spiritual concept.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by dontreally]

reply to post by JoshNorton


Actually the lodge minutes from that night that I saw says, "Meeting adjourned early to attend urgent business in the harbor." It is also pretty well known that the Demolay were responsible for the actual physical part, and that the community leaders (mostly Masons) were only onlookers and providing protection.

I could be wrong, but I have seen pictures of the minutes from that lodge that night, and I have also heard the story in a tour of Boston.

reply to post by dontreally


All those different philosophies that you mention are interesting, but what do they have to do with Masonry? In Masonry we learn a very specific account of history according to our own ritual that has been passed down. We do not explore any of those areas you mention, although it is true that there are similarities. Old Testament, and Pre-biblical teachings are the basis of Masonic teachings. Kabbalah, Gnosticism, and Islam all have similarities and even overlaps, but how does that change anything for Masonry?

And yes, it is true that the Masons do learn that the high ground is the most Holy. That doesn't mean that man is relegated to lower ground, and it certainly doesn't mean that a civilization from a higher elevation is superior to one from a lower elevation. It means in a local environment one should construct the Temples on the highest ground.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by dontreally

 

All those different philosophies that you mention are interesting, but what do they have to do with Masonry? In Masonry we learn a very specific account of history according to our own ritual that has been passed down. We do not explore any of those areas you mention, although it is true that there are similarities. Old Testament, and Pre-biblical teachings are the basis of Masonic teachings. Kabbalah, Gnosticism, and Islam all have similarities and even overlaps, but how does that change anything for Masonry?

And yes, it is true that the Masons do learn that the high ground is the most Holy. That doesn't mean that man is relegated to lower ground, and it certainly doesn't mean that a civilization from a higher elevation is superior to one from a lower elevation. It means in a local environment one should construct the Temples on the highest ground.

I never said one civilization was superior to another.

I said the lowest area on Earth coincidentally happens to be in the land of Israel. This symbolizes mans inherent lowliness compared to G-d. G-d is everything. So calling him a mountain diminishes him. Thus, the only physical area that can possibly be relative to mans relationship with his creator is a low lying area. Dont people find it curious that since ancient times people have regarded Jerusalem as the naval of the earth? And so east of Jerusalem has been called the east and west of jerusalem the west? Also, its a commonly accepted fact that Israel manifests the most diverse range of terrain in the smallest area. In the little tiny area of israel, you have a very low lying area (dead sea), mountains to the East, Desert in the south, forest in the west, all compacted into this small little area. This reflects the kabbalistic idea that Israel recieves first and than the world. Israel is the world in microcosm.

The Kashmir region reflects mans relationship to the divine POWERS (elohim in hebrew) and not G-d in his mode as Melek (king) over creation. So, in relation to these divine powers, man is the kashmir plain, while the surrounding mountains symbolizes the divine powers. This is just a theory that ive read and given it comes from a guy whos privy to these circles, being a colombia professor and all, im betting it could be legitimate. This kashmir area also happens to be a meeting point between the worlds 4 great religions (which have the same philosophy at its core). Christianity to the north, Islam to the West, Hinduism to the South and Buddhism to the East. And the US' war in afghanistan which could be going into pakistan could reflect their desire to get a hold on this area.

All just speculation. My point in all this rambling is that certain physical locations hold spiritual importance. I find it amazing that historically Israel has been regarded as a holy land and today we know that the dead sea is the lowest point on earth; reflective of the shekina, G-d, who lowers himself into this world to associate with his creation. Theres no place more important on earth than Jerusalem and the temple mount. This is why in order to influence mans spiritual reality its imperative to have a house on the temple mount. The house and its particular symbolic dimensions, and service, draws down spiritual power either from the creator (as it did during temple times) or an idolatrous God (Temple of jupiter and the dome of the rock). Arnan the Jebusite had a temple there. David bought it from him and solomon built the 1st temple. After that was destroyed the Jews came back, supported by the persian king Cyrus to build the 2nd temple. Romans destroyed it, and they built their temple to Jupiter on it. Than that was destroyed and in 640 the muslims built their dome of the rock.



[edit on 10-8-2010 by dontreally]

reply to post by Nephi1337


it is possible that masons were the bulk of people who designed the plans for the tea party. They would have done so as patriots, and not as masons. Masonry has a very strict ritual. It has not changed much if at all in over 200 years. There is no ritual for staging a coup de'ta. At times I wish there was. I would trust the leadership of brother masons before I would trust a stranger. But that is not the point.

You brought up a good point and had me thinking hard of how to word my response. And my word is just that. I would not lie about any subject on this board. I value my integrity to much for that. Masonry itself is not, and would not be used for power, or self gratification. It is simply a group of men trying to be better men.