Doublethink - alive and well in today's society

Here is another example of doublethink:
Spain an al-qaeda base?
This report claims that Spain is being used by a non-existent terrorist network as a base and a place to launch attacks from. Michelle Obama chose this place to vacation.
So they want us to believe that it is simultaneously a terrorist hotspot and a great vacation spot for the president's wife?

By the way, great thread. I see doublethink all the time. Its kind of disturbing.

It has been my experience that the people who are not consistent with their thoughts, for one thing, are saying what they think the people (the other person) want(s) to hear.

1. Now that could be when one doesn't know what to say, so 'pulls something out of the air'.....perhaps to not hurt another's feelings.

2. The real offenders are the Narcissists, who pathologically lie--say whatever suits them at the time, what likely makes them look good... on top of the situation....and leaves the other in a state of confusion.

I lived with a "Narcissistically disordered" person who, when I began making lunch and he knew it, would have an excuse to make a phone call or something and wasn't there when lunch was ready. If I ate without him, he would rage that I could have waited for him. If I waited for him, he would say that I could have eaten, that I was a grown-up and did I need him to tell me when to eat? Catch-22.

You cannot rationalize with an N. I left him.

Originally posted by cornblossom
Albert Einstein is quoted as saying, "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." I agree. I think it's an example of double-speak when we say we want peace yet prepare for war.

This could prove the statement wrong: (Scenario): A person in command of the government's security has access to two buttons:
button 1 "automate preparations code"
button 2 "automate preventions code"

The person at the command center could press both buttons at once to make both actions happen. Theoretically, it could happen.

It is like moving your right hand to punch and moving your left hand to stop the punch. (That is synonymous to double think)

reply to post by LiveForever8


S&F!

I'm not trying to derail the thread but in my opinion "doublethink" should better be called "paramoralisms" since the latter definition was invented for a scientific study regarding psychopathy in politics. Orwell was right on track in describing the horrific effects of psychopathy in politics on society, however he failed to pinpoint the cause of all misery: psychopathy in politics.

"Doublethink" or "paramoralisms" are the way by which the psychopaths push their twisted lies and evil on an unsuspecting public.

From the Ponerology blog

Para-moralisms: The conviction that moral values exist and that some actions violate moral rules is so common and ancient a phenomenon that it seems to have some substratum at man’s instinctive endowment level (although it is certainly not totally adequate for moral truth), and that it does not only represent centuries’ worth of experience, culture, religion, and socialization. Thus, any insinuation closed in moral slogans is always suggestive, even if the “moral” criteria used are just an “ad hoc” invention. Any act can thus be proved to be immoral or morally proper by means of such para-moralisms through active suggestion, and people whose minds will succumb to such reasoning can always be found. In searching for an example of an evil act whose negative value would not elicit doubt in any social situation, ethics scholars frequently mention child abuse. However, psychologists often meet with para-moral affirmations of such behavior in their practice, such as in the above-mentioned family with the prefrontal field damage in the eldest sister. Her younger brothers emphatically insisted that their sister’s sadistic treatment of her son was due to her exceptionally high moral qualifications, and they believed this by auto-suggestion. Para-moralism somehow cunningly evades the control of our common sense, sometimes leading to an affirmation of behavior whose character is openly pathological. Para-moralistic statements and suggestions so often accompany various kinds of evil that they seem quite irreplaceable. Unfortunately, it has become a frequent phenomenon for individuals, oppressive groups, or patho-political systems to invent ever-new moral criteria for someone’s convenience....

More to read:

www.ponerology.com...

ponerology.blogspot.com...

ponerology.blogspot.com...

This problem is perhaps the biggest issue of our time and solving it might very well be the only way by which humanity will ever find peace and freedom.

bazzeman out...

I see doublethink going on here regularly.

'Deny ignorance' is plastered on every page and yet the propagation of misinformation, intended or otherwise, seems to be our biggest output.

Remember the ol' swine flu days of yore?

I think it's just human behaviour to have cognitive dissonance.

If you don't like it - be more than human.

-m0r

Amazing thread. Doublethink, or Cognitive dissonance, is the core, bedrock belief of the Statist, ie anyone who believes a monopoly of violence(government, state) can reduce or end violence.

A kindergarten student understands that hitting is wrong and that stealing anothers lunch is immoral. The non agression prinicipal makes up 95% of humanities default attitude - it is only through intense early conditioning that humans are made to believe that one group is morally and practially justified in initiating violence against another. But somehow humans, which are generally good, grow up to believe in, and defend a system that contradicts our basics instincts to not harm others. We know hitting, stealing and murdering is wrong, yet most of us support a system whos very foundation is based on violence and murder. Ie the State.

So being the clever animals we are, with the ability to spot and intellectually consume and digest complex ideas, and thus differentiate between concepts that defy our basic programming, we come up with a defense mechanism to make our world OK and thus livable. We know subconciously that theft and murder is wrong, and yet we submit to involuntary taxation that funds murderous wars that we also oppose instinctually, almost *genetically*. To make our insane world liveable, we become one of the insane, and adopt two diametrically opposed ideas in an attempt to comform, or just live along side our fellow madmen. Its more convinient to blend in with the madness than to stand up and oppose it, and lets be honest, survival and thus acceptance is easier than standing up in moral outrage against the majority of humans, who have been consumed by this sociopathy of the day.

So yes, ask any Statist if they approve of theft or murder. They will of course say no. Then ask them if they support the theft of your income to support the numerous foreign wars their government invariably supports. Ask them what should happen to you if you decide to not pay your portion of tax that funds such wars. They will often support your kidnapping and inpriosonment. Ask them if they believe in free speach, and the freedom associated with non violent ideals, ie not funding violent programs through taxation. They would have you in shackles for your non compliance in a minute. Many of them, who claim to abhor violence, would rat you out themselves.

So doublethink is not only alive and well in our society - it forms the bedrock of the statist outlook. Orwell rolls in his grave. Doubleplus ungood.

I am very impressed with the way you laid this out. You made it available to even the most blinded of armchair gurus. I think that posts like this are most valuable to those of us who read them, and then use them. Thank you for your insight, and I hope to see more from you along these lines. It is truly refreshing to read something written well, and without alot of personal trash talk to clutter up the true message.

CHAOS:CONTROL
CHAOS:CONTROL
CHAOS:CONTROL
CHAOS:CONTROL
CHAOS:CONTROL
CHAOS:CONTROL
CHAOS:CONTROL
CHAOS:CONTROL
CHAOS:CONTROL
CHAOS:CONTROL




Hence another flaw in the english language (further evidence we should move to Lojban (or something similar))

star+flag

Doublethink statements for you:

Christian God is a God of Love and Peace
American Citizens are Free
American Government is "For the People"
Democratic Elections are Fair and Balanced

Originally posted by Neo_Serf
Amazing thread. Doublethink, or Cognitive dissonance, is the core, bedrock belief of the Statist, ie anyone who believes a monopoly of violence(government, state) can reduce or end violence.

A kindergarten student understands that hitting is wrong and that stealing anothers lunch is immoral. The non agression prinicipal makes up 95% of humanities default attitude - it is only through intense early conditioning that humans are made to believe that one group is morally and practially justified in initiating violence against another. But somehow humans, which are generally good, grow up to believe in, and defend a system that contradicts our basics instincts to not harm others. We know hitting, stealing and murdering is wrong, yet most of us support a system whos very foundation is based on violence and murder. Ie the State.

So being the clever animals we are, with the ability to spot and intellectually consume and digest complex ideas, and thus differentiate between concepts that defy our basic programming, we come up with a defense mechanism to make our world OK and thus livable. We know subconciously that theft and murder is wrong, and yet we submit to involuntary taxation that funds murderous wars that we also oppose instinctually, almost *genetically*. To make our insane world liveable, we become one of the insane, and adopt two diametrically opposed ideas in an attempt to comform, or just live along side our fellow madmen. Its more convinient to blend in with the madness than to stand up and oppose it, and lets be honest, survival and thus acceptance is easier than standing up in moral outrage against the majority of humans, who have been consumed by this sociopathy of the day.

So yes, ask any Statist if they approve of theft or murder. They will of course say no. Then ask them if they support the theft of your income to support the numerous foreign wars their government invariably supports. Ask them what should happen to you if you decide to not pay your portion of tax that funds such wars. They will often support your kidnapping and inpriosonment. Ask them if they believe in free speach, and the freedom associated with non violent ideals, ie not funding violent programs through taxation. They would have you in shackles for your non compliance in a minute. Many of them, who claim to abhor violence, would rat you out themselves.

So doublethink is not only alive and well in our society - it forms the bedrock of the statist outlook. Orwell rolls in his grave. Doubleplus ungood.

Great post.

War is peace.

"If we don't attack them over there, they will attack us here!"

Hope and Change.

Gitmo is still in full operation, and the Troops are not home.


"They Hate our Freedom!"

We have the largest prison population of any Nation on Earth.


"Love it ..or Leave it!"

Unless you have been denied that right.

Originally posted by m0r1arty
I see doublethink going on here regularly.

'Deny ignorance' is plastered on every page and yet the propagation of misinformation, intended or otherwise, seems to be our biggest output.

-m0r

You may find it helpful to realise is that there is a mirror in our physical reality which if not recognised can lead to madness of this nature.

Often when we are viewing others we are viewing ourself reflected back. This is one facet of of the mirror. Another facet is internal within our own mind and is closely connected to the language we speak and often 'think' with on one level.

e.g. Deny ignorance.

When I first saw that phrase on here plastered about I became concerned that this site itself is an engine of deliberate confusion. why?

I am acutely aware of denial and the suffering it brings. Once we deny to ourselves, what we have denied is hidden internally.. we are no longer aware of it .. we are no longer aware that we have denied. that is denial.

'deny ignorance' meant to me at first - pretend you are not ignoring.. pretend you are not ignorant.

only after seeing it a few times did I gather that it was perhaps intended to mean 'do not allow ignorance to prevail'.

we need to be extremely mindful of our language if we wish to remain alive and mentally sane.

additionally, going back to the subject of conflicting beliefs being held simultaneously.. This, when approached as meditation can be revealing.

the nature of paradox and subjective reality.

'all trues are true'

shows the nature of subjective reality .. in that we all maintain a model of truth which to us in that moment is true.. thus to not invalidate each other, recognition of 'all trues are true' can bring understanding and defuse conflict.

so this is 'AND NOT OR' thinking.. where both can be true at once..

i.e.

one person might say 'managing an economy' means 'keeping money in our pockets'... Another might say that it means 'maintaining NOT ENOUGH'.. - Economy means 'not enough'. The difference is the underlying understanding as to the nature of reality and 'where stuff comes from'.. Which, despite what you may think, many people hold wildly different viewpoints of.
One person experiences the idea of 'economy' as being 'helpful to ensure I have enough food' and another experiences it as 'a frustrating limitation on ensuring we all have enough'.

the combination of opinion, experience and understanding.

yet is there an objective truth that supersedes ALL opinion?

I say.. yes.

but it is not what most people think of as being objectivity.
the 'outside world' is not fixed and only appears fixed due to consensus.
so the combined subjectivity of all creates objectivity but its underlying structure is subjective.

there is no spoon and yet there is.

It is my fashion to try and hold as many possible conflicting views in my head at the same time as I have evidence for.

I do not believe, nor am I persuaded by anyone of them - excepting when it comes time to translate that into action.

Obviously this is not double think - but it is interesting that some can accept contradictory views without being able to discern between them - and act on both of them as the situation dictates (I assume).

The underlying problem I think, is that people believe - if you remove all belief - then there is no problem, because then (before translating into action) both views need to be assessed on the evidence and their merits - rather than being accepted (as in non critically).

Originally posted by tunist

yet is there an objective truth that supersedes ALL opinion?

I say.. yes.

but it is not what most people think of as being objectivity.
the 'outside world' is not fixed and only appears fixed due to consensus.
so the combined subjectivity of all creates objectivity but its underlying structure is subjective.

there is no spoon and yet there is.

Your response is interesting, and I agree with it in part - however - objective truth is not applicable to physical reality, it only applies conceptually.

Physical reality is purely interpreted - so it must be subjective, but thoughts that arise inside of the individual are not interpreted (so long as no attempt is made to communicate them) - these original thoughts, idea's, fantasies and so on constitute objective reality - however, as soon as you introduce them to physical reality they become subjective.

This thread has taken a refreshing turn towards perception - a turn I approve of wholeheartedly.

I do have a differing outlook though regarding this part Tunist:

Originally posted by tunist
yet is there an objective truth that supersedes ALL opinion?

I say.. yes.

I also say yes but I don't think a human mind can comprehend it.

By experiencing reality we form opinions based on what we know. We are taught to label these opinions with words which we use to share them socially. Social accordance will always favour the hegemonic system which in turn removes concepts which could topple it. Ergo what we are taught as labels will never actually be good enough to understand a true truth.

Mind you, it's possible that it could be grasped in Esperanto

-m0r

Peace be with the reader.

Doublethink is a symptom of the deluded mind.
The mindset of a person is irrational OR rational.
Doublethink/speak belongs to the irrational mindset.
Here is a video that illustrates what I am saying:
www.youtube.com...

Peace be with the reader.

Doublethink is a symptom of the deluded mind.
The mindset of a person is irrational OR rational.
Doublethink/speak belongs to the irrational mindset.
Here is a video that illustrates what I am saying:
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by LiveForever8


Very good post.

Nothing more to add.

Starred and Flagged.

reply to post by LiveForever8


Hey OP, when just joining a little while ago, I read your thread and decided on my name.

I liked Ron Paul's speech "Is this reality or just a bad dream". Your OP reminded me of that speech.





By the way, I decided on my moniker because of your thread. Kudos.

its principa dischordia all over again...