Unfair criticism of the Christian religion...

reply to post by theuhstuf


Where is your proof, I provided written scripture. What have you provided? Just opinion

reply to post by hippomchippo


I agree. If "Christians" would follow Jesus and not Paul, I would have the utmost respect for them. But oh no, they have to go and follow the guy who flat out said his goal was to destroy Christianity.

And to the OP, yes, I have read the New Testament. Many times. And Paul is still evil. Jesus, on the other hand, rocks.

Well the number one judgemental religion in the west is Xtianity. Xtians are everwhere in the West and delight in trying to intimidate people and ramming their so-called values down everyone elses throats. They take pride in their religion thus non-Xtians take joy when they trip over themselves. The Germans calll it something like "Schadenfreuden" the pride that goeth before a fall.

Now if they would work on themselves as we all should people would not lambast them. Perhaps the OP could speak to his fellow religionists. That would improve the world.

Originally posted by marsvoltafan74
reply to post by Solomons

 

Christianity is not only about getting a ticket to Heaven, but having a relationship with God, which you know nothing about sadly. You might believe its a fairytale but you haven't experianced what I have. Your mind tells you He isn't real but my whole being tells me He is. The only reason you haven't found Him, like so many others, is because you haven't seeked Him.

and on the day that your god is taken away i will be dissapointed and saddened by your choice to rather die than live in a world without your fairytale.

Originally posted by marsvoltafan74
reply to post by Solomons

 

Christianity is not only about getting a ticket to Heaven, but having a relationship with God, which you know nothing about sadly. You might believe its a fairytale but you haven't experianced what I have. Your mind tells you He isn't real but my whole being tells me He is. The only reason you haven't found Him, like so many others, is because you haven't seeked Him.

Well i will just be honest here.... i haven't 'found' God? To me that is no different than saying i haven't found pixies or a pink flying unicorn because i haven't been searching, you have to understand that these are all the same in that they are all based on blind faith...all this 'my whole being tells me he is real' is no different than someone saying the same about a pink flying unicorn..It sounds insane basically.

[edit on 7-8-2010 by Solomons]

The whole thing thats wrong with this argument, is that it's irrelevant.

I am a Christian.

I dont think bible verses should be thrown in peoples faces, and the Good Book itself isn't to be used as ammunition in my opinion. everyone makes their own points, and then proves that theyre both wrong. its going against God to use the bible to try to shove it in people's faces in ANY way. These arguments are like when you try to debate with someone on ATS about a news article, but no one has read the entire article to see what it was really saying. the only way you can know, and have good logical discussion, is if you read it.

In conclusion, these arguments turn into a never ending downward spiral, which is why theres so many wars over religion or the church or God. Theyre all different. Jesus rules them all in my beliefs though.

[edit on 7-8-2010 by matrixportal]

Funeral Protests

The story linked above is a good example of what NOT to do if you call yourself a Christian. I don't think Jesus would condone someone showing up at a funeral and spouting hateful rhetoric as a family buried their loved one.

In a recent incident here Tulsa, a local radio host asked the pastor of one of the largest churches in the city if he would be interested in helping to keep these people out of the area. He said that he would have to consult with his congregation before he gave an answer. Note that he didn't have to consult his congregation before giving a number of somewhat controversial comments about other political issues. By the way, the church decided NOT to stage a counter-protest of any kind.

When Christians stop standing up for their beliefs against this kind of rot they actually promote it.

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
Isaiah 5:20

reply to post by marsvoltafan74


With all due respect, religions all of them, are private and personal matters which cannot be verified, authenticated or proved.
There is no such thing as "unfair criticism" because either you believe a particular tale and it's trappings...or you don't.

Christianity has had it's low points. It is not without culpability. You should weather the criticism and maintain your faith.
If you disparage others in any way for disagreeing with you, you are not honoring the religion. Christians often TELL others how to be Christian but they very rarely SHOW. This makes many people skeptical.

Regardless of ridicule, behave in a steady, non-judgmental, patient, kind and loving way. Show your joy. People will attribute your "way of being" to your religion and good upbringing...(or lack there of) and might want peace like that for themselves.
Then lay it out there...for the taking however and not as a request or a demand or an "I don't understand why you don't think this" or worse, "I don't respect you because you don't think this."

People will either be tolerant of your religious belief, critical of your religion or they will not entertain it at all...there are those who will subscribe to your religion.

But there are no guarantees. It is a matter of personal taste, environment and experience.

This becomes like a discussion about why apples are better than oranges.

This is what made Jesus who he was, the ability to live a perfect life, none of us will ever do it. And yes, Christians take LOTS of heat, just remember this is the prophecies coming true, just like Jesus said would happen

reply to post by marsvoltafan74

So though I respect your opinions I will have to respectfully disagree with your false claims for it is not the religion itself which is flawed, but its followers, excluding the true Christians.

As Mahatma Gandhi said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

reply to post by marsvoltafan74


I don't wanna burst your bubble...but the scriptures aren't exactly proof of anything. Fact is, people have, and still are killing people for religious reasons. People also try to shape public policies based solely on religion instead of common sense and logic.

Originally posted by Solomons
reply to post by marsvoltafan74

 

People were responsible for those good deeds, not religion. You don't need religion to be a good person and charitable... so the point you made is false imo.

I dont think there is a better response to the OP than that post

I think there is plenty of unfair criticism of us non-extremist atheists by the Christian religion. Ive been labelled as a bad person for my atheism, all of that has come from Christians, not any other religion. And for the record, I have no problem with what people believe, until they start attacking us

Originally posted by Tiger5
Well the number one judgemental religion in the west is Xtianity. Xtians are everwhere in the West and delight in trying to intimidate people and ramming their so-called values down everyone elses throats. They take pride in their religion thus non-Xtians take joy when they trip over themselves. The Germans calll it something like "Schadenfreuden" the pride that goeth before a fall.

Now if they would work on themselves as we all should people would not lambast them. Perhaps the OP could speak to his fellow religionists. That would improve the world.

Hi, I am one Christian who doesn't judge you and will not ram my values down your throat or intimidate you, nor do I anyone else. Please consider that next time your above judgments come to mind. I hope you eventually change your mind.

Originally posted by soontide
Funeral Protests

The story linked above is a good example of what NOT to do if you call yourself a Christian. I don't think Jesus would condone someone showing up at a funeral and spouting hateful rhetoric as a family buried their loved one.

In a recent incident here Tulsa, a local radio host asked the pastor of one of the largest churches in the city if he would be interested in helping to keep these people out of the area. He said that he would have to consult with his congregation before he gave an answer. Note that he didn't have to consult his congregation before giving a number of somewhat controversial comments about other political issues. By the way, the church decided NOT to stage a counter-protest of any kind.

When Christians stop standing up for their beliefs against this kind of rot they actually promote it.

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
Isaiah 5:20

Yeah, that is terrible. I remember reading that and wishing I lived close enough to help stand up against that garbage. Especially being a vet, seeing their signs about being glad soldiers were dying was pretty infuriating.

It's sad to see real Christians not having the Cojones to at least stand next to them with signs of their own to counter that.

Unfortunately there are crazies in all aspects of society that give their respective peers a bad name.

Originally posted by theuhstuf
It's simple, christianity is based on hypocrisies, so don't complain when people point it out. At best, your religion has caused much conflict, at worst it has destroyed intelligence everywhere it reaches!

What are the hypocritical foundations that Christianity is based on? The faith, not any particular denomination. I'd like to hear some of Jesus' hypocritical teachings.

Christianity is supposed to be a "personal faith". It's all about your relationship to God, how that happens, how you should live your life as a result, and how the world should be impacted by it. Community is important, but we are not saved as a church, we are not saved as a group, we are saved as persons.

Too many people are content to simply accept what they are told, regarding their salvation, the church, how they should live their lives, never realizing that, if they went back to the Bible and read what Jesus actually taught, it's far simpler, more sensible, and easier to actually do.

However, and this is a big however, that "doing what you're told and accepting it without question" motif applies to pretty much everything that humans do as a group -- it is neither unique to Christianity, nor religion in general. The number of people who claim to be Democrats or Republicans but have little to no grasp of those parties' histories, core beliefs, and ultimate goals is probably appallingly small.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by Solomons
reply to post by marsvoltafan74

 

People were responsible for those good deeds, not religion. You don't need religion to be a good person and charitable... so the point you made is false imo.

I dont think there is a better response to the OP than that post

I think there is plenty of unfair criticism of us non-extremist atheists by the Christian religion. Ive been labelled as a bad person for my atheism, all of that has come from Christians, not any other religion. And for the record, I have no problem with what people believe, until they start attacking us

To the post you noted, religion is so often accused of being used to motivate people to do evil. Tough to disagree, looking back at the Crusades, the Inquisition, and looking around at the current climate of religiously motivated violence.

However, you can't have it both ways. You can't say that "people were responsible for those good deeds, not religion" but that "religion is responsible for those bad deeds, not people." Pick one and stick with it. Personally, I go with the former, as good and evil would continue to be done if all organized religion was abolished tomorrow.

But if one wants to claim that the amount of "evil" done would change in the absence of religion, then one needs to accept that the amount of "good" done would change, and my view is that the good lost would far outweigh the bad lost.

I don't criticize your (or anyone's) beliefs, aside from correcting misrepresentations of my faith and poor logical arguments intended to make a case against Christianity (as above.) I support your right to not believe, and appreciate the insights that thoughtful atheists and agnostics bring to many discussions.

I do not, however, appreciate statements like this:

and on the day that your god is taken away i will be dissapointed and saddened by your choice to rather die than live in a world without your fairytale.

Or, from another thread:

Of course we have the mentally ill who will come on here and state their deluded claim that "God" almighty or his magical son is real because these magical imaginary friends personally come and talk to them once in a while, but anyone with any sense knows that such claims are the result of extreme mental issues that require immediant professional help ASAP.

NOBODY knows the answers, and religion is certainly a PATHETIC, IRRATIONAL, FICTIONAL man-made bunch of NONSENSE that only confuses the issue even further.

Belittling another person's faith is not an admirable trait, and it explains why many Christians view atheists so poorly. You may say that these are "extreme atheists", but if you do not admonish such behaviour, you grant tacit approval of it and allow these views to colour other's views of your belief.

I love Christianity, but I will say some of the greatest set backs to Christianity is Christians themselves. Jesus wants us to choose, who we will serve. I Love the bible I also read and study the other books that were cast out of the bible. People dont like to be bible bashed, but people do like a halping hand, if you can be a helping hand to a peron in need that is showing what Jesus would do. True religion is to help the orphan and the widow. Paul was a great Christian writer yet his scriptures are so misunderstood even the Apostle peter warned against the misinterpretation of Pauls writings. With all the wack job preahers out there who claim to be the will of God I understand how people are confused and reject Christianity altogether.

Originally posted by Tripple_Helix
reply to post by marsvoltafan74

 

So though I respect your opinions I will have to respectfully disagree with your false claims for it is not the religion itself which is flawed, but its followers, excluding the true Christians.

As Mahatma Gandhi said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Amen.

Jesus, Gandhi, Buddha.
All people to aspire to be like, but none to worship IMO.

Here in Canada we have the problem of residential schools which is considered maybe the worst genocide committed against children ever.
The Protestant and Catholic churches wre paid in tax dollars to commit it.

The PM Harper has apologized for it but of course that doesn't fix the damage

My IMHO
It is those Churches and people that CALL themselves Christian when they are clearly not...
That is the problem...

PS In some cases the churches never even told some of the parents that their children were dead, let alone where the bodies are buried.