Hurting the Homeless : What Would You Do In This Situation If You Were There...

I would go against American foreign policy and protect the downtrodden. I would be a human shield. I have done it in the past.

Before I get into individual replies again I wanted to say a few things to everyone.

First of all, the comments on this thread, by others, have somewhat rekindled my faith in humanity, albeit the online community, I had very much lost my faith in humanity, to do the right thing for their fellow human.

This is because all over this site all I see day in and day out is how people want to do violent things, when it comes to people, speaking specifically about Government, politicians, even to Law Enforcement Officers, you name it.

I am not a violent man by nature, whether I was raised under the Art of War, or not, having studied Ancient Rome, Ancient Greece, Government, Military, Law Enforcement, Intelligence Agencies, you name it, this does not make me a violent person in any way, shape, or form.

I turned all of that into the Art of Peace which I walk daily.

That only make me an informed and intelligent citizen who knows how things are done.

Secondly, that people would step in and intervene, on behalf of a homeless individual, if monstrous teenagers were teasing, taunting, and wholly being evil little turds, means to me, people see the homeless are people.

You might laugh or scoff at my simply saying something like that, that people on here see homeless people, are people, humans in fact, but it is true.

I have seen, known, and listened to far too many people who think those people, the homeless, who believe they are less than human, it racks my head with the unfathomable, that anyone could think they are inhuman.

The homeless.

I see those teenagers, albeit the video is a staged event, as inhuman monsters.

Countless years have I read that bums, homeless, hobos are beaten, robbed, or killed because of the evil within mankind, the cruelty towards fellow man.

To kick someone, when they are down, quite physically at the stage of someone being homeless, is about one of the most evil and wholly unforgivable things I see within society, as I mentioned in reply to someone earlier, if I had ever done something like this myself as a teenager, my parents would have disowned me, if I had ever done something akin to this atrocity, thereby possibly making me homeless back then.

Third, for those who have expressed their concerns, well wishes, or generally kind thoughts towards me, living out of my car, thank you very much.

I do have a job.

I making enough to be able to eat, pay car insurance, and that's about it.

Yes, I still have my laptop, I am grateful I made the decision to buy it years ago, even more grateful I chose to keep it, instead of selling it for less than it's worth.

I post from either the public library, or from McDonalds with their free Wi-Fi.

There is so much more I could say here but I will not right now.

The one last thing I will say, leaving space here to edit in other replies later though is this.

Thank you to each and every one of you for restoring my faith in mankind.

Without humanity we are not human beings to begin with nor are we Earthlings.

Yes, I avoided stating we are Americans, those who are know who they are, but this being an international forum, I felt the necessity to address everyone.

America has no individual claim to humanity as it is something all men and women have.

The question is not whether we have humanity through compassion though.

It is whether we use it, whether we believe in it, or whether we show it to our fellow human.



reply to post by The Bear Man


Thank you for sharing that link and your story.

People just do not seem to understand at times this crisis.

And a veteran does not deserve this type of treatment.

I just wonder why your friend went from being a veteran to homeless.

How long ago was he in the service, what branch, and what M.O.S.?

If you know that information.

Originally posted by acroagogue
Thanks for sharing. Wonderful video. Gives everyone a little bit of hope.

It is inspiring that people would defend someone they do not know.

When society has gone from our most depraved to some of the best it definitely does the heart good, to see that people actually give a damn.

Especially in this economy where more and more homes are being foreclosed upon.

reply to post by The Theorist


Of course.

Situation dictates tactics, tactics dictate survival, survival dictates outcome.

I would never intervene without considering all of my options first.

reply to post by Burgo


Alcohol is definitely a drug.

However, it is a legally obtained substance, although it was once illegal.

Prohibition against alcohol is not the answer though because that was a failure.

Responsible use and or non-use is the answer to that.

reply to post by Skid Mark


Precisely.

If someone walks away without intervening they are just as guilty.

How they intervene is dependent upon their ability.

Even finding an open store and asking someone to call the Police is intervening.

reply to post by bluemirage5


Did he never seek out any sort of psychological assistance to get better?

I think your actions were commendable and probably helped him.

Just how long was he homeless and living on the street?

Noticing you're in Australia, and seeing as I have been there three times, I never saw or noticed homeless anywhere there, but then again, I did not go out of my way looking.

reply to post by souls


Of course, I am sure some people are probably out there, coasting on pity.

I have seen plenty individuals going to the daily labor facility and working.

And then asking for handouts after work, or before work, or instead of work.

In my area, locally, there is a mission, called Christ is the Answer, C.I.T.A. Mission.

From talking to people all over my city the majority of the homeless avoid it.

If they can help it.

One of the biggest reasons is due to a strict no drug/no alcohol policy.

As well as the mission preaches to them and expects them to attend church services.

However, in this current economic climate, I have to disagree about minimum wage.

It is not enough to live off of if there are no jobs available.

You are right, just because someone is homeless, it does not mean people have the right to treat them like scum, like this video demonstrated to us here.

And Law Enforcement telling someone to move along who is literally working the corner, holding up a sign, for a local business sounds like they let the Cop take advantage of their plight, instead of just telling the Cop he was working.

[edit on 6-8-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by endisnighe


Not to sound like a longing nostalgic fool, but I really do miss the days when respect was a little more apparent in the home, in public, and in society in general.
I'm not a big fan of Caligula's empire.

End--- My favorite has always been, "dont run, you'll only die tired".
CV42

Originally posted by bigun_9
Ok, let's cut through the crap here. I live in Florida too, Cape Canaveral and Cocoa Beach to be exact. This is the reality: About 95% of the homeless here are there because they want to be there. They refuse to give up the alcohol or drugs and live like that because they CHOOSE to spend any money they get through unemployment, SSI, or by panhandling to buy their substance and not pay for a place to live. There are numerous rent-by-the-week places where the rent is only $160 a week with all utilities included. Most if not all have a felony on their record, again not society's fault, and most likely will not be hired in this county. They live on the beaches and beach cross-overs and even under the world renowned Cocoa Beach Pier which is a major tourist attraction. They contribute NOTHING to society, pay NO taxes, and get public assistance. All they do is drink, drug, fight, and steal which is reallly a selling point for tourism. (Sarcastic remark) Let me ask you a question ATS? If you spent your hard earned money on a vacation and brought your wife and children to a beach, would you want them to be around a bunch like that? If anyone is so concerned about the homeless here, then take them into your house, feed them, buy them drugs and alcohol and let them do their thing while you go out and work for a living. Oh and thanks to New York City and Daytona Beach for handing out free bus tickets to their homeless and shipping them here. Yeah thank alot Arseholes!

Um I live in the same area and it is not how you make it out to be. It is NOT a choice to be unemployed in this area, there are NO jobs and MORE and MORE places are closing so more people lose their jobs. I have been looking for a normal job over my current one and there arent any..I know I have been trying and I apply anywhere I find "help wanted." I don't like this area in the least bit but I am not gonna say it's full of homeless people who you basically say are losers. You know for a fact those people at the pier don't have jobs? You know for a fact they are all on assistance?

Kind of ignorant to assume don';t you think?

I am pretty sure I would have intervened, but sometimes what you think you would do and what you actually do turn out to be very different actions. You know what I mean?

This is mildly off-topic I suppose, but my Aunt and Uncle travel the world. In a third-worldish country they were in, a kid walked up to them.

"American, will you give me money for a Coke?" the kid asked.

My Uncle said "No, but I will buy you and I both a Coke, and then we can sit right over there and drink it."

The kid turned the offer down and kept trying to convince my Uncle to just give him the money, but my Uncle refused. Then the kid got pissed off, called him a few names, and walked off.

Shortly afterwards my Uncle saw the same kid asking another traveler for some money.

Next time I run across a homeless person, I'm going to offer him a meal and give him someone to talk to, rather than money.

That reminds me of the Jawbreaker song Kiss the Bottle:
"Say mister can you spare a dime,
Some change could make a change,
Buy some time, some freedom,
or an ear to hear my story."

Sorry, that was even more off-topic...
Thanks for the thread.

I am proud to say that I am the first to jump in and defend those who are not capable. My son has seen me often stop the car and jump into fights, or help someone in distress. One time while I was filling up gas in my car, a blind man caught my eye. He seemed to be confussed and was trying to cross a very busy intersection. As I drove over to the man, he reached in his pocket and pulled out something, as he did, his money fell out. It was under $20. He did not notice, (he was blind) I was not yet near him to help but was watching as other people walked over, right past him, picked up the money, and kept walking. When I did reach him, I asked if he needed any help. As it turned out he was very turned around and very lost. I informed him about his money and he was upset, that being the only money he had. I asked him to join my son and I for dinner and then we would get him on his way. During dinner we chatted and he shared his life, which was interesting. He was a Veit Nam vet, father of 2, very nice man. After dinner we replaced his money and took him to BART. He was trying to get to the station when we found him, he was 6 miles away. We then called his sister to tell her were he was, and what train he was on. He Thanked us, and I Thanked him.
I got a call from my sons school, he had been in a fight, and we were to come down. Upset, I get to the school. My son tells me some of the other kids were picking on some kid. He told the yard person who did nothing but say, "Knock it off". As soon as she turned her head it was on again. My son then stood in and punshed the main bully. Which stopped the bullying. As we sat with the Principle, I asked were are the other kids. He said, your son started the fight, so he is the one being punished. I asked if he had heard my sons side of the story, he said yes from the yard person. My son then told his story. The Principle just stared. I then said, "Is this the kind of school that ignores bullying and then punishes someone for standing up to that. I am proud of my son and his actions. With that we walked out of the office.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


I have taken in many homeless individuals in the past 10 years. It was a big boost to most of them and were able to go on with their lives after about 7mos. to a yr. I never charged them a thing for staying in my home.
it was financially devastating to me in the long run. All my savings was depleted by giving them money to help with their personal stuff. I can't help anyone anymore. I had to move out of the nice big 7 room house to a very tiny 3 room apartment.
I spent thousands of dollars helping them and I never ask them to pay me back, and none have offered yet. But that is ok, for as I said before, most are on the right track and are now back in the work force. Some are even back in school and working.
I hope you are going to be ok. Living in a car is miserable, been there done that!! That is the reason I took the homeless into my home.

[edit on 8/6/2010 by moonwize]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

How is the value of a homeless individual any less than that of an average citizen?

I think the values are the same.

But, in the same vein, why isn't Obama and his government picking up a weapon and leading an assault in Afghanistan or Iraq?

Because they think they are supremely more important than the soldiers they order to kill and die.

Same thing with the homeless. They imagine they are without worth, because they have no monetary worth..and it's all about the paper pulp with pretty pictures printed on it.

reply to post by DeltaGhostHunter


Good story.

If there were more like you, the world would be a better place.

Take care when jumping into fights though, you never know what they have stashed in their pockets.

Great example to set your boy too, what a shame his teachers seem to be a waste of space.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas



Now this is where a FEMA camp would come in handy... and why they've never done this escapes me. It's would be a good place to screen the homeless and provide temporary shelter in a controlled environment... and collect DNA for past unsolved crimes... etc.

Any of us could become down on our luck and become homeless so I would like to think that if this happened to me someone would help.
If I had seen this happen I would have stepped in.

reply to post by AntiNWO


You are correct.

That is a life threatening situation.

The homeless individual is imminent peril.

I agree with you about feeding their addictions.

This is why I posted what I did before.

Especially in regards to my conversation with ProtoplasmicTraveler.

I do not want to be an enabler towards something they're doing.

Drugs, alcoholism, or even conning if that's their particular vice.

reply to post by musselwhite


That's just it though this treatment should never happen.

That anyone would do that to another living human being is astounding.

To say the least.

A citizens arrest is in order if you ask me.

reply to post by Kandinsky


Thank you Kandinsky.

I am working towards being self-employed eventually because I'm tired of working for other people, making them money, and never having a guaranteed income.

I am not expendable nor will I ever accept that status as I see it as false.

I was taught to make myself as the most dependable employee.

The problem with this is that it makes other people money and it makes me seen as someone will stay at the job forever, which is not true, I want to make my own money.

Your story sure shows how society can forget about people, even your own self-destructive nature took you down some twisting alleys, and side streets in life.

There is no romantic adventure to living on the streets, it is live or die, usually hard.

The very nature of being a homeless individual is living on even the outside of the fringes of society, meaning not even seen as a human, because people disassociate themselves, because of the shame of their own ability to live better.

Are You "Right-Wing Fringe", or "Left-Wing Fringe" and How Will They Push You

All it might take one day, is one missed paycheck, and all of us could be homeless.

In society people are frivolous with their funds, rarely do they save funds ahead towards a potential disaster, this is where the pipedream of the lottery and winning something for nothing, comes into play with society to this day.

I remember working at 7-11 for 5 years telling, suggesting, and speaking with lottery ticket buyers, about saving their money, and getting a Roth I.R.A.

Instead of throwing them money away daily, weekly, and monthly.

People were so irrational due to their I'm going to win someday mentality.

I am so grateful I did set aside money into my own Roth I.R.A. saving towards the future.

Last year I ended up cashing that in just to stay in an apartment I knew I would not be able to afford forever, which lead to my being evicted, eventually.

Originally posted by dietsamcola
With good Samaritan laws being challenged and overturned, it's not worth sticking your neck out for anyone these days. It just opens you up to civil liability.

I would mind my own business and leave the area.

While I certainly understand where you're coming from with liability I disagree.

Those who would kick, beat, or burn a homeless individual deserve to get their ass kicked.

Do I think they would sue me if they were able to do so?

Sure.

Can they prove anything?

Not likely.

Would the homeless person be an expert eyewitness?

No, he's homeless, no jury would listen to him, if you could even get him to go to court.

Do I look like I care about a potential lawsuit from teenagers beating a homeless individual?

No.

If they tried it I would file charges against them for Public Endangerment.

I would as well file charges against them for loitering.

As well there is engaging in being a public nuisance against the frail and helpless.

Then I would ask the homeless individual their age.

If he or she was over the age of 65 that is a felony.

reply to post by Ex_MislTech


You are of course talking of this movie, right?

Marc Singer - Dark Days Documentary (first 10 minutes)


An interesting documentary to say the least.

Damning evidence of society one wrong to state much more.

I think it is sad that anyone of any age would beat, harass, or burn a homeless individual.

But sadly this is exactly what our public schools pump out of the system.

Worthless individuals who do not know how to respect human life.

And I have to ask what parents would do if their teenagers did this to someone.

I know if and when I have children if they were to do this at any age I would react badly.

Of course, I do not see this will happen, but if it did ever happen they would not like my reaction.

First, they would never be allowed to associate, with those so-called friends ever again.

Second, I would call each parent of the other teenagers, and tell them exactly that.

Third, I would go find the homeless individual, and ask them if they wanted to file charges.

And before anyone asks me, yes, I would allow someone to file charges against my teenager.

If they beat a homeless man I would escort them to jail myself.

Because I sure as Hell would never support those ignorant actions.

Nor the ignorant person practicing them.

It would either be escort them to jail or escort them to a homeless shelter.

reply to post by endisnighe


That is a very large part of the problem of society.

A rapist can get off in court because of money.

And the homeless are beaten usually to death.

You said that teenager was accused?

So, it was not proven he raped someone, or he just beat the charges completely?

reply to post by Frontkjemper


That kind of ignorance infuriates me to no end.

These are exactly the kind of people I never hung out with.

I am talking about the teenagers who would stoop to this level of insanity.

reply to post by Quasar_La-Zar


Well, I see it as a sad state of society, where anyone would do these actions.

Survival is one thing, allowing an abuse the other way, however is not acceptable.

The teenagers should not do these actions but neither should the homeless harm them.

Please, take my meaning that i understand self-defense, but it should never come to that.

reply to post by MrWendal


I commend you for your thoughts on what you would do in this situation.

Defending the helpless is a part of how society has to protect itself.

There are some things, and some times, when no one can be ignorant of violence.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


Yes, this has to stop, and this is the road towards being a sociopath for many.

And Criminal Minds is one of my favorite television shows.

We have to be responsible as members of society.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I agree with you that the amount of people acting ignorantly does mean the amount of and or the ability to intervene would depend upon each person's ability.

I would analyze the situation and react accordingly.

My first action would be to disarm anyone ignorant enough to have a weapon.

If I were able to do so.

reply to post by zarquon51


I agree with you about them having lives of abundance and not knowing.

The teenagers doing these acts of ignorance should be dealt with.

A real judge if they were taken before a court would send them to do community service.

In a homeless shelter serving the homeless food.

Either choice :

A) Serving the homeless,

or

B) Serving jail time.

reply to post by Rockstar02


Quite simply they are not human if they are treating people like these actions demonstrate.

And we have only survived as the human race this long because of compassion.

If compassion were lost so would humanity be lost completely.

reply to post by HappilyEverAfter


Amen.

Analyze, evaluate, engage.

And damn the consequences.

[edit on 6-8-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by stardust2


I wouldn't have stepped in unless I had a firearm with lots of ammo to back me up... as that would have been putting my own life in danger. But I certainly would have descretely taken my own photos/videos and called the cops to file a complaint against all those involved.

I hope the media hunts down all those kids in the videos and turns them in... and demands that LE take action.

[edit on 6/8/2010 by Hedera Helix]

reply to post by stephanies-chase


I agree fully with you 100%.

That anyone would do this is atrocious.

And they deserve jail sentences for their actions.

reply to post by xxcalbier


Just wondering who your post is directed at specifically.

I do not drink.

Nor do I own a Lazy Boy.

Originally posted by xxcalbier
I am on DEATH ROW just waiting for the warden to come to take me to the chair .

You're on Death Row in prison?

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


I like what you shared here.

I would not necessarily give the homeless cash.

That is just me though.

I might go get something for them, food, water, or soda, and give it to them.

Possibly even offer a ride to the nearest homeless shelter.

Yes, society is screwed up, not all homeless are weak or lazy.

But not all of them are helpless either.

And I have stood watching as homeless people screamed at the sky.

Because they were off their medication.

I asked around all over and got to the bottom of a few situations.

Personally, I see the Nuclear Missiles, as worthless penis measuring devices.

Which country has the most potent nuclear penis?

None.

They are all worthless, meaningless, and over the long-run, impotent.

reply to post by amodedoma


There's a positive stereotype of homelessness?

Yes, I agree, not all homeless use drugs, drink, or avoid work.

I believe I've stated that quite a few times.

reply to post by Unity_99


My only problem with any concept like this is it can and will be misused.

By Government.

It's been proven, historically, Government cannot be trusted.

When it comes to homelessness and gathering them together Government always does the wrong thing, always, and there is no way I would trust.

With the Native Americans they are called Reservations.

An abused populace who was forced into homelessness due to greedy Government.

And ignorant settlers.

With the Nazi's it was called Resettlement Camps which was a lie.

And now our own Government, the American Federal Government, calls them something else entirely, F.E.M.A. Camps, a nice euphemism for Death Camps.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

If ever I have to go to a city for any reason, I always make sure to bring a pocket full of change with me. Many years ago I went through a period of time during which I ate at soup kitchens and slept in parks. I have also panhandled, and have to admit that most of the money went to buying booze. It can happen to anyone...circumstances can come along and turn a comfortable life into one of desperation and the 24/7 struggle of just trying to survive. Some of us managed to get back on our feet and are able to start over, for others it's a one way ticket until some day perhaps another street person stumbles across a body lying crumpled in an alleyway. There are just as many reasons why a person ends up on the street as there are folk having to live that way, but "why?" is none of my business, and I don't ask. I know that in most cases someone asking for change to buy coffee, will instead head for a liquor store or drug dealer, but what does it matter if the person can buy themselves a couple of hours of escape from the cravings their habit brings on? Sure it would be great if we could help everyone get of the street, but that would happen only in a perfect world, and we all know this one is far from being that.

Hello, I am a new member here. I was homeless before. Unlike many, I don't have a mental illness to blame as the reason as to why I was homeless. I brought it all upon myself, but that is another story. Before I was homeless, I used to think that all homeless people were drug addicts and/or alcoholics. While alot of them do use these substances, this stereotype is simply untrue. Furthermore, for the people who insist that every homeless people are just lazy and don't want to work, remember this: If you were homeless and couldn't practice proper hygeine, had no phone, had to carry your belongings everywhere you went- do you really think an employer would want to hire you? No. So, some people resort to temporary Labor Halls for employment. These places are designed to keep people down. Other people resort to begging (panhandling). I personally couldn't muster up the courage to resort to this method to acquire money. I caught a merciful miracle from GOD (whom I didn't believe in before I was homeless, mind you) who worked through a perfect stranger. This person gave me a hand up, not a hand out.

Anyways, this life lesson was a serious wake up call in my life and I have gained several much needed tools from this lesson: WISDOM, LOVE and COMPASSION (for others)...I help everyone that I can within my abilities. Do I know if they are going to spend it on drugs/alcohol? More than likely. But, hell, it's rough out there- who wouldn't want to escape?

Thank You for your valuable time. Good thread OP.

dam right I would intervene, I believe you can judge a society by the way it treats it 'underprivilaged' those without. It's very easy to turn your back on those with no voice, and it takes effort to look after them.

reply to post by Say_It_Already


welcome, glad to hear all is on the up now.

reply to post by k0mbination


Greetings, k0mbination!

Thank you.
*line two*

As my wife would always say....your getting involved in other peoples problems is going to get you killed one day.

Well so far i am still alive and still intervening...

life is about karma....and as was earlier said....I too have a lot of karma point to make up for...and i am sure i will never achieve it..

But no matter assist the underdog unconditionally without any expectations in return...cept maybe one more Karma point.

The world is falling to pieces and will become much worse where compassion for others is going to be the only thing left in society(this is not doom and gloom).

heck there will be so many homeless that it may just become the norm.
It has been said before we are all just one paycheck from being homeless.
yes some are into the drink
yes some do drugs
yes may choose that life.

but never make the mistake of painting people with one brush.
just as each and everyone of us typing here is different in so many ways.
I know this cause i have done a journey where i i met hundreds of people from all different backgrounds stayed at their homes and it woke me up.

until you hear their stories you never know how someone has contributed in this life. I too have met many homeless who are...doctors,lawyers,businessmen,stocktraders,restaurant owners to name but a few.

each one with their own story of their road to the street,life is a precarious thing, no one knows it all, and no one (yet) can say what the future might bring for an individual.

now each person has their own reason for helping or not.

but dont judge those who you might decide to help.

and do not help for your own rewards.(cause there usually isn't any)

just help cause you have a kind heart.

no one in this life deserves to suffer at the hands of another.