mosque near ground zero greenlighted

Pamela Geller (her website) wanted to put this ad on buses and in subways all over NYC.


Notice how big and scary the "mosque" is. How towering and threatening. Notice the false opening/groundbreaking date still in the ad.

It would have been an effective ad, eh? She went on for days on her website about how CBS and the MTA in NYC were refusing to run her ad. It's a very interesting glimpse into her mind works though, isn't it? So is her website.

Well I made an image to show how big the real Islamic center, sizewise, would look in proportion to the WTC. See the red in the lower left? That would be the size of the center...maybe even not as wide, because I estimated that from the width of the old building.


The location is not exact though...remember there is no line of sight view from the proposed location of the center to ground zero.

[edit on 8/8/2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by sweetliberty


It wasn't long after 9-11 that I remember reading about a kid who had expressed sympathy for Osama Bin Ladin.

He flew an airplane into a building in downtown Tampa, I think.

There are always some people who will be influenced by these terrorists and will make excuses for their behavior.....Fortunately, they are few, far and in between.......But they all seem to gravitate towards ATS.....Pity.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by explosivo

 

No such thing would happen. There are synagogues all over the place in NYC. And churches. And as someone mentioned earlier strip clubs. If this was to be a Christian or Jewish or any other kind of community center, no one would peep.

The point here seems to be that in some minds alleged Muslims allegedly took down the towers, therefore all Muslims are evil and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near ground zero. Quite the leap.

..."allegedly muslim....allegedly took down the towers..."


lucidity what were they then and who took down the towers?


and who here has made the blanket statements that all muslims are evil?



explosivo is right in every respect

you take out the words: islam,muslim,mosque

insert jewish,isreal,synagaoge this thread would turn completely opposite.

i have read the anti isreal threads on here and that is the real hatred the real evil.

there is so much tolerance for islam in this country

but when it comes to christianity and judaism they just arent good enough.


how and why do people turn a blind eye to it? why the blantent hypocrisy?

yeah you personally may or not be but there are tooo many others that are.

actually go read any thread on site is about christianity and isreal then come back and tell us whose really being the hateful and intolerant ones here......

[edit on 8-8-2010 by neo96]

All I know is that where I live, there ain't a single mosque anywhere. We ask ourselves what the hell is New York always doing wrong. Then we remember they are New York. No more explanation needed.

reply to post by rimshot


Where might that be?

Just curious how man Muslims in your area and where they pray.

Ah, yes, New York with their damn diversity and tolerance... When will they ever learn.

I don't know all the details on who will be running it, or where the funding is coming from. However from what I've read, the place is not just a mosque, it is being designed as a Muslim centre to teach TOLERANCE and to help muslims adapt to other cultures.

The project has also been green-lit by the Survivors of 911 group. Now I image there is no way this would have been given the green light unless this was truly the case. I know a lot of muslims here in Birmingham, and of course the only ones who get any press are those that have strong opinions (ie the nutcase extremists).

Yes, Muslims want to push and spread their religion and beliefs around the world. But find me one single religion that doesn't!

How many Christian organisations have been set up around the world under the name of 'aid/education' only to be trying to convert local populations to christianity. Hell even on ATS you get regular nutters preaching about god and creationism.

I don't believe in any god at all, and don't follow any religious ideals (although I do believe all religions have some good and bad points).

So labeling all people from Muslim countries a 'they' is pretty biggoted!

I know from personal experience in my area that there are real problems that need to be addressed to try and help Muslims integrate more into the society they move into; rather than segregating themselves off into their own areas which just ends up causing real problems.

If this is truly the goal of the Mosque and educational centre than where better to set it up than in the location of 911 (assuming you believe it was carried out by muslim extremists), to show the issues of extremest views and the devastation and pain it can cause.

To have true peace, people of all races and faiths need to integrate as part of the same society rather than being segregated groups who are scared of each other.

Or proof of God being BS needs to come out then everyone can just enjoy their lives without guilt and ridiculous rituals and hatred, and accept we are all the same as each other.

If I were a Muslim living in America today, I suppose that I would have mixed feelings about the mosque that is going to be built near ground zero.

On the one hand, I would be appreciative of the tolerance of the United States, and the freedom to practice ones religion, and advance its acceptance by society at large.

On the other hand, I would be embarrassed that my brothers want to build a mosque so close to ground zero. And I would be concerned about a rise in anti-Muslim sentiment because of the delicate nature of the situation and the controversy that is surrounding the mosque.

But I guess I really don't know what it means to be Muslim, because I am not hearing from any Muslims who share these same sentiments..........Perhaps that is because there are so few real Muslims and so many radical Islamic extremists here on ATS.

Perhaps true Muslims are afraid to voice their concerns because they are afraid of being ostracised by their community, and fear speaking out because of brutal reprisals from their own.......like the code of silence, in hip hop, and in poor communities, especially the poorest neighborhoods in the African American Community.

But if this were the case, then that would just confirm my suspicions that Islam is not a religion of peace, but a religion of sorrow and hatred, as Osama Bin Laden has stated in his manifesto. Is Islam really a religion of subjugation and revenge as Osama Bin Laden says? Who can prove him wrong? Who can prove me wrong?

This is why there is so much mistrust for Muslims among Americans. It is because no one can answer our legitimate concerns in a any kind of satisfactory manner.

Instead, we are labeled as Bigots, Islamophobes, Racists, Haters, Americans, Christians, Jews, Zionists, Hypocrites, Disinformation Agents,
Statists, Litagationists, the list goes on and on....fill in the blanks.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

I say build the Mosque.

This is America and as long as they can get the proper paperwork and approval, then they have the right to build.

The majority of us all know the BS reasons behind the wars in iraq and afghanistan.

I've had some really interesting chats with a guy I know about his religion, and he is in no way an extremest, but follows the Muslim teachings strongly. He was born in England, and until recently considered himself as English.

However with the recent wars and what is essentially propaganda towards the Islamic cultures, he no longer likes to think of himself as English. As our country and the US are slaughtering his people for BS reasons of war. And yet all that is portrayed on the news is the extremest views of a few nutters. When was the last time you heard anything good about Muslims on the news? About aid groups, local community projects etc?

I have never heard anything mentioned about the religion other than scaremongering. If this continues, then it will only further enrage people and give cause for these extremist views to spread amongst the normal and sane people of that religion.

This is simply shown by the majority of people who hate muslims yet admit they have never really talked to any about their views and beliefs.

It's a real shame the way things are going, and there have been some major issues over new mosques going up in and around brum in the last year, not to mention the massive street fights that kicked off in Brum in the last year too.

I think schools really need to play a major role in educating people from all walks of life and religions (and non religious people) in ways of tolerance, understanding other peoples religions and how we can all integrate and get along together.

I can only see this spiralling out of control and getting much worse, especially if it all kicks off with pakistan and the 'war on terror' aka 'the # storm we just created for ourselves'. But with America getting more and more paranoid and war hungry I can only see it going one way. I'd love to be proved wrong though!

I was very much against this at first, but after reading more into it, if it is handled in as positive a way as they plan too, maybe it could be the first step to creating a new start of integration and peace. It will raise a huge amount of press coverage from both viewpoints, and it will be nice to see some coverage of the Muslim faith in a positive and peaceful light for the first time.

flying planes into buildings
strapping bombs on to people including women and children
hanging people and them burning them like ephigys
cutting off peoples heads
cutting off womens noses
stoning women who cheat on their husbands then imprisioning them
telling women what they can or cant do or what they can wear
women who arent allowed to goto school
shooting women who protest in the streets
honor killings because the father and mother doesnt like them dating non muslims.

and guess what even a "moderate" agrees with some if not all of those things or they are too afraid or intimidated or threatened to speak up

thats not propaganda those are facts and they happen every single day.

slaughter? the us military just walks up and down a street and just shoots or bombs people at random. thats bs


how can anyone not be concerned here how can they not be ?






[edit on 8-8-2010 by neo96]

reply to post by neo96


Yep, when you put it that way, and I hear no legitimate challenges, it only confirms my suspicions that Islam is anathema.

I'll try this again neo, I posted this cartoon here a few posts up, and it was taken down for being off topic. It is meant to illustrate ongoing elements of the debate in a respectful, though slightly humorous manner. I posted it as an answer to the double standard that you had mentioned in the previous post when it comes to Islam and Judaism, etc.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/426eeee39601.gif[/atsimg]

Why aren't our concerns about the mosque being properly addressed?

And why are we always vilified instead of being constructively engaged in positive conversation, as we have been attempting to do ourselves, over and over and over again throughout this entire thread?

edited to add....as I had stated earlier, I am always amazed and amused at how 1 billion Muslims blame 12 million Jews for all of the worlds problems.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

Neo96 is actually right

I am a New Yorker and I can personally asure all of you that there are "cells" all over the 5 boroughs within Mosques. The police and the FBI are raiding them all the time. Where are you guys getting your data from?

Mosques are IN FACT where the ideas get thrown around. It's where the radicals get together. Use your brains people. The sickos aren't renting out a VFW to plan an attack.

Originally posted by spinalremain
I am a New Yorker and I can personally asure all of you that there are "cells" all over the 5 boroughs within Mosques. The police and the FBI are raiding them all the time. Where are you guys getting your data from?

Sources?

Mosques are IN FACT where the ideas get thrown around. It's where the radicals get together. Use your brains people. The sickos aren't renting out a VFW to plan an attack.

You do realize that undoes your agreement with Neo, right? See, there are already over 100 mosques in the area and according to you, they are already using those to plan terrorist attacks.

Can please explain why they would stop using the mosques you claim they are using now and move into the most highly publicized and scrutinized mosque in US history?

Because the whole point in this mosque is to educate Muslims on how to integrate their religion with western views... ie. all that # is is just wrong! Again most of those things are done by the extremest few.

Have you seen the MILLIONS of signatures that just stopped the stoning of a woman in Iran by Avaaz? That just goes to show that the general population of the country do not follow the views of the radical government (as most US citizens it seems don;t follow the choices of their governments either).

The fact that stonnings in Iran haven't happened for years just goes to show how much the media blows things out of proportion and much people get suckered in when they don't know # about the real events.

Of course I'm not saying any of these things are not extremely worrying, but the majority of 'moderate' as you put it religious folk DO NOT agree with them. You might want to try actually talking to them about it rather than believing everything the papers and news show.

The first step to changing things like this has to start in the west, to show that these different cultures can adapt their views to a more peaceful and free way of life without sacrificing their core values. Once it works here, it will spread back to the more extreme countries. The fact is a lot of people are worried/scared to voice their views against barbaric practises like this, yet it s happening more and more which just goes to show that it is the few not the many that have these beliefs.

double post for some reason, sorry!

[edit on 8-8-2010 by crezo]

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth




yeah it reminds me of the death threats the south park guys got

[edit on 8-8-2010 by neo96]

Originally posted by neo96
-yeah not all islamic people are extremists- so straight up im not bashing the religion


-it is a FACT mosques are use to recruit the radicals
it is a FACT mosques are uses to funnel money to radical groups.

Contradictory statements are contradictory.

Originally posted by neo96
this is a slap in the face to every single person whove lost friends and family on 9-11 and if afghanistan.

Innocent muslims died in 9/11 too. A mosque being built wouldn't be a slap in the face to their family members and friends, it might even serve to honor them.





[edit on 8-8-2010 by PieKeeper]

Originally posted by PieKeeper

Originally posted by neo96
-yeah not all islamic people are extremists- so straight up im not bashing the religion


-it is a FACT mosques are use to recruit the radicals
it is a FACT mosques are uses to funnel money to radical groups.

Contradictory statements are contradictory.

Originally posted by neo96
this is a slap in the face to every single person whove lost friends and family on 9-11 and if afghanistan.

Innocent muslims died in 9/11 too. A mosque being built wouldn't be a slap in the face to their family members and friends, it might even serve to honor them.



[edit on 8-8-2010 by PieKeeper]

yes contradictory statements are contradicotry since it was muslim who killed those people including muslims

not every 9-11 family just loves the thought of this idea


[edit on 8-8-2010 by neo96]