Food For Thought: Meat-Based Diet Made Us Smarter

Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa

 

It's definitely in its infancy in terms of research, and it certainly isn't proof of anything; however, the concept IS sound and the paleoantropological evidence, at least at first glance, seems to support the hypothesis.

[edit on 3-8-2010 by DevolutionEvolvd]

naw, I learned this in college back in the early 90's. I thought this was common knowledge actually. The only thing is, people dont become stupid if they stop eating animal products these days.

I'm hungry, gonna get a taco

Originally posted by keithallenlaw
...And lets not forget that different blood types need different diets.
O types are the meat eaters, and the other types are more or less
vegetarian. A very proven science.

I don't think "proven" means what you think it means.

are meat eating animals in nature smarter than vegetarian ones? and if so, why wouldn't they have developed a higher intelligence similar to our own? could a diet rich in fish be why dolphins are so intelligent?

Originally posted by 2weird2live2rare2die
are meat eating animals in nature smarter than vegetarian ones? and if so, why wouldn't they have developed a higher intelligence similar to our own? could a diet rich in fish be why dolphins are so intelligent?

As mentioned earlier in the thread, it's all about genetic potential. There are about a million different genetic events that lead up to a species' ability to evolve in a given direction. Duplication of HOX genes are one such event.

well, brain development aside, glucose is the source of fuel for the brain. Carbs, people, carbs. Sluggish thought processes are among other things associated with low carb diets.
Also agricultural based civilizations are the ones who brought us the greatest achievements in both size and importance. Once the food source was stabilized, other, less survival based, leisure activities could be pursued. Arts and music along with philosophy came to become revered. I would consider the carnivore akin to the maurading barbarians. No real interest in creating sustainable food source, they had to invade and steal that of other more peaceful peoples. Just like a tiger stealing the nutrition from its latest victim. When your life is consumed by the hunt (attacking others to steal their hard earned commodities instead of focusing on creating their own) there is little value placed on anything else. Not the makings for a great society. Look at your typical third world setting. No food, so you have to kill and steal=no peace=crumbling society.

I dont know about you guys but after reading through this thread i went and ate a nice big serving of the chicken curry i made earlier.

Feasible B-12 sources in evolution/pre-agricultural times

Vitamin B-12: Rhetoric and Reality

Both geophagy and, more rarely, coprophagy, are practiced on a limited scale by chimps; see Goodall [1986] for relevant discussion. It is known (from toothwear studies) that prehistoric humans display significant toothwear from "grit" or soil. No one knows how much grit prehistoric humans consumed, or how much might have been inadvertent (versus intentional), though the figure given above of 143 g/day of soil that would be required to achieve one's daily B-12 requirement is probably far more grit than anyone--even a less-than-fastidious prehistoric human--could tolerate. This suggests that geophagy was not a significant B-12 source for prehistoric humans.

Prior to agriculture, there were no domesticated crops or herds of domesticated animals. Consequently, there was no deliberate manuring of food crops--which is an agricultural practice, not a hunter-gatherer practice. Of course, some wild plants will--by chance or other reasons--receive limited amounts of wild animal manure. However, there is insufficient evidence to support a claim that such incidental, occasional manuring (of wild plants) would provide a reliable source of adequate B-12 (particularly in light of the extremely high bulk of unmanured plant foods required to meet B-12 requirements).

Potentially feasible plant B-12 sources--legumes and grains--not available to hunter-gatherers.

Note that Mozafar found higher levels of B-12 in soybeans (a legume) and barley (a grain) than in spinach. Prior to the development of agriculture, such items (legumes, grains) would have been available only in very limited quantities to hunter-gatherer tribes.

Are Humans Natural Frugivores/Vegetarians, or Omnivores/Faunivores?

Like the OP stated,millions of years ago humans became more varied in their diet and this apparently lead to an evolutionary occurance in which we became Homo Sapien Sapien.

ALSO because humans spent less time foraging,they had less opportunities to be eaten lol. The plus side of this,animals would be leery of these new omnivores and their desire to eat them. LOL


[edit on 3-8-2010 by The Utopian Penguin]

Originally posted by keithallenlaw
@Doc Velocity

Very good write up. But please explain this. First I will reiterate
what you say that a heavy cooked protein diet affords us the
leisure to use the brain more for doing other things, correct?

So, in that regard, how do you explain lions, who eat a high
protein diet, to sleep 20 hours a day? Should they have more
energy to do more creative stuff? In all actually, blood is pulled
away from the brain and the rest of the body to digest all that
protein, verses a high water content (vegetarian) diet that is
predigested and affords the body more energy. Eating heavy
makes me lethargic. I would rather eat watermelon before a
marathon than a huge steak. Food for though, pardon the pun.

This is correct thinking. And if the blood is in the digestive system, it is also going to inhibit muscular function to a certain degree. Proteins and fats, on average, take about 4 hours to process while carbs take between 1 and 2 hours to process. Nothing like a bowl of meat free oat meal before going on the big hunt!
I like to pick on the people working at your local GNC. I'll ask them "if horses eat oats, and gorillas eat banannas, and these are two of the most muscular animals in the world, how come I have to eat all this protein your trying to sell me? (yes I am aware of varying myostatin levels but they are not.)The look on their faces is priceless, try it. I am in no way discounting proteins place in rebuilding the body, just the amount these people are claiming. 1.5 grams per LB bodyweight a day. The body has a real problem processing that and if proper hydration is not followed, severe kidney problems can come about.



[edit on 3-8-2010 by Fifth Horseman]

[edit on 3-8-2010 by Fifth Horseman]

[edit on 3-8-2010 by Fifth Horseman]

Originally posted by Fifth Horseman
I am in no way discounting proteins place in rebuilding the body, just the amount these people are claiming. 1.5 grams per LB bodyweight a day.
[edit on 3-8-2010 by Fifth Horseman]

The most popular protein supplements are mainly whey aka milk protein. Consuming it in large quantities, especially without proper hydration and fiber, it can lead to a buildup in the intestines and even lead to 'intestinal toxemia'. Mac Danzig, a vegan MMA fighter is 168 lbs and consumes 100 - 140 grams of protein when he is in peak training.

I've been using hemp protein/fiber in my post workout shake with great results.

Crocodiles have a carnivorous diet and their intelligence pales in comparison to a chimpanzee, who consumes mostly vegetables.

Originally posted by Fifth Horseman
Sluggish thought processes are among other things associated with low carb diets.

FALSE

That statement is completely inaccurate. Unless you, yourself have experienced a low carb diet and this supposed "sluggish thought" your statement is second hand at best. Even then, there are factors other than carb loading at play. For example, if you were to follow the Atkins plan to the letter, you would stop drinking caffienated drinks and stop using all nicotene along with the low carb dieting. Both of these substances do aid in mental clarity. I will tell you first hand that my thought processes have never been better. I also no longer am hit with that post-lunch walking dullard syndrome most people get after eating a bunch of carbs at lunchtime.

I am not advocating anyone else try the diet, but neither do I intend to allow fabrications to be passed off as truths.

reply to post by burdman30ott6
Ok, who was talking about caffeined and nicotine? Fabrications you say?health.yahoo.net...

After 1 week of severe carbohydrate restriction, memory performance among the low-carb group, especially when dealing with difficult tasks, gradually decreased compared with the low-calorie group. In addition, the low-carb dieters had slower reaction times and faltered during tests of their visual-spatial memory

This article (and I can provide many more if you wish) reiterates what I said about sluggish mental response. Thanks for playing.



[edit on 4-8-2010 by Fifth Horseman] I am just waking up

[edit on 4-8-2010 by Fifth Horseman]

Originally posted by JohnnyTHSeed

Originally posted by Fifth Horseman
I am in no way discounting proteins place in rebuilding the body, just the amount these people are claiming. 1.5 grams per LB bodyweight a day.
[edit on 3-8-2010 by Fifth Horseman]

The most popular protein supplements are mainly whey aka milk protein. Consuming it in large quantities, especially without proper hydration and fiber, it can lead to a buildup in the intestines and even lead to 'intestinal toxemia'. Mac Danzig, a vegan MMA fighter is 168 lbs and consumes 100 - 140 grams of protein when he is in peak training.

I've been using hemp protein/fiber in my post workout shake with great results.

so, yeah, no where near the 1.5g/lb bodyweight. Even at his fight weight of 155 that would mean 232.3 grams a day. My belly hurts now. Mac is a great fighter, hope he gets back on track, and DANZIG is one of my favorite bands, hehe. You have me curious about the hemp, does it have a balanced amino acid profile (essential, non-essential)?


[edit on 4-8-2010 by Fifth Horseman]

reply to post by Fifth Horseman


From my own personal experience with a low carb diet, I am still calling Bravo Sierra on the statement that low carb diets cause sluggish thought. I work in a very critical thought dependant field (I'm an engineer), I would notice very quickly if my brain was fogged in any way. I have actually seen numerous personal performance indicators improve since starting this diet. For example, my fly tying has never been better and my video game playing has also improved. (Considering I've been doing both for well over 20 years, I consider them to be good personal benchmarks of mental and spatial performance.)

Might there be a particular metabolism which makes certain people respond better to low carb diets? Yes, I would think that is possible. I would also love to see a study examine the relationship between wisdom teeth and high meat diets. I've been told by dentists that I have so-called "cave man jaw" which allowed my wisdom teeth to grow without any problems whatsoever. Conversely, almost all of my friends at the same time ultimately ended up getting their wisdom teeth pulled. They were thin people eating the normal carb heavy western diet, I was fat on the same. Since going high protein, high fat, low carb my metabolism has gone through the roof.

[edit on 4-8-2010 by burdman30ott6]

Originally posted by Mr Knowledge
reply to post by technical difficulties

 

No one knows the cause of Crohn's Disease? It's laughable because of course those that studied the disease probably traced it back to the very foods they were eating. I can tell you this: Crohn's Disease is without question a degenerative disease linked to diet. I can also tell you that the only safe way to ensure you remain disease free and young is to eat mostly raw foods.

Meat is dead matter bka 'slow kill' because it slows down cellular/metabolic/biological processes in the body and causes fatigue and eventually disease and death. This is a complex issue that will never be resolved because everyday people continually ignore evidence that's right in their face and they're blind to it and a slave to 'meat that tastes good'. Would you die in the name of meat? Would you be able to survive if meat was suddenly banned? Probably not because you're a slave to it. Meat is a poisonous drug and you're addicted my friend.

Try posting sources to back up your claims, that way your beliefs don't seem so irrational to those reading your posts. Also, if Crohn's disease is linked to eating meat, why don't the majority of people in America have Crohn's disease? 500 thousand to about 2 million people have Crohn's disease (www.medicinenet.com...) in America, although it's most likely somewhere in the middle. A quick google search www.google.com...) will show that the population of America is around 307 million, and as we all know Vegans/Vegetarians make up a small percentage of America.



[edit on 4-8-2010 by technical difficulties]

reply to post by burdman30ott6
well, I guess its your typing abilities and video game prowess against established science. What was I thinking. Personal experiences used as evidencecan often become fogged by trying to prove ones own views. That is why they do studies that aren't run by those in the studies. Is "caveman jaw" an actual medical term? Seriously, just asking.
I like how you pointed to your "thin, carb eating friends" as an example. Earlier in this thread it was pointed out that eating carbs makes gorillas fat with huge potbellies. I'm confused by these conflicting statements. Gorillas are not concerned with their looks, only in acquiring enough food. You guys are seriously funny! You were probably eating alot of high glycemic foods which made you overweight, where your friends may have stuck to slow digesting carbs. Without knowing the activity levels of all involved its impossibe to use your example for analysis. A sluggish metabolism is best awoken by excercise, not nutrient starvation.
How long have you been on this diet? Most who try last under a month, and are hardly tolerable to be around due to grumpiness caused by waning blood sugar and neurotransmitters levels. Are you aware that ketosis is not a normal ongoing metabolic state for the human body? Oh, and what about glucose being the fuel for the brain? are you telling me you have an edge in fuel management? Don't try telling me you are getting plenty from the protein, as that is the most roundabout method of achieving glucose from food. Also if your protein is being used to supply glucose, it isn't performing its job as a repair resource. I'm glad none of you are dietary professionals.



[edit on 4-8-2010 by Fifth Horseman]

[edit on 4-8-2010 by Fifth Horseman] I type faster than I think, MUST BE THOSE EGGS I JUST ATE!!! AHAHAHAH

[edit on 4-8-2010 by Fifth Horseman]

Just state a simple fact in answer to your query.........The introduction to FIRE made the need for a larger Gastrointestinal Tract in earlier HOMO SAPIENS to be not required and therefor became smaller. Coupled with this development came the increase of nutrition from the foods they already ate which before Fire was Raw.........Now cooked and easier to digest we began to see an increase the size of our brain all down to cooked food, be it meat or Veg.
Yes meats eg.FISH have there valuble nutrients but so do Vegetables and Fruit.
And before anyone says it was meat that got us out of the trees and more inteligent than monkeys think again..................
BTW they eat mainly fruit and plantlife and only a rare amount of meat.

[edit on 4-8-2010 by DreamerOracle]

reply to post by DreamerOracle
Great video! Oh wait, it was scientists in this video. Thats bad. We have people here who play video games really well, they don't like science to come between them and their beef jerky Come to think of it, this pretty much WAS a video game and the humans got P'WND by the carb eaters

reply to post by Fifth Horseman


Fly tying, not typing. It's a dexterity thing either way, I guess...

Anyway, my thin carb loving friends ate complete crap. Candy bars, chips, pop, the normal high school/college diet in mad quantities. The difference between them and myself was purely metabolic. I was playing football at the time so believe me, exercise wasn't an issue.

I've been on this diet since Easter. My mood has been pretty much normal throughout (Though many likely feel I'm the same miserable SOB I have always been). You continue to have erroneous information on low carb diets, by the way. A proper low carb diet does not rely on protein but, rather, on fats. You consume 50-60% of your calories from fats, 30-40% from protein, and 10% from net carbohydrates (carbs - dietary fiber which does not affect blood glucose levels). The 60% from fat is very important as it is what creates healthy/normal ketosis, not protein.

For what its worth, my latest blood results showed I am no longer pre-diabetic, have normal cholesterol levels, triglycerides, and blood pressure. Furthermore, I have lost 65+ lbs (my weekly weigh-in is Friday) in 17 weeks time. This is without any increase in time spent exercising or any other lifestyle changes at all. 20 carbs per day, no calorie counting, and it's worked fantastically. The people who have experienced bad results from low carb diets have discovered the diet isn't for them... great! That doesn't mean the diet is bad or doesn't work for others. It simply means that everyone is different and everyone responds to different metabolic formulas.

Back on topic:
The assumption of it being the protein in a meat based diet that generates clarity of thought is bogus. It's the fats. Think about this... I would argue that taken as a whole, humanity is experiencing a rapid decline in common sense and brains. This is visible everywhere you turn. Schools are reporting record failures of students to meet even the most basic of educational criteria. Adults display staggering levels of stupidity. How much of this can be connected to the low fat dietary craze? Ironically, as more and more "experts" urge low fat diets and more and more low fat products are sold and consumed... the fatter (and dumber) we get! The combination of high carb, low fat diets are responsible for this, IMO. It is upside down from what it should be... a diet high in healthy fats, low in refined carbohydrates, rich in nutrients.

reply to post by DreamerOracle


DO...your video of the chimps' abilities does NOT indicate a "higher intelligence", per se...

Please watch, and especially listen again at about 1:40 onward...the clue is there, as to their ability.

It isn't hard to understand that A) Our brains ARE different, and not because of diet; and, B) The Chimps' experience, and natural environment is different from ours...and in any case, the brains' functions will adapt, depending on the way they are used, and the needs of the organism.

OUR brains do not require that incredible "photographic memory" ability (which our distant ancestors MAY have had...and we've outgrown the dependence on it) --- we compensate in other ways, with our higher brain functions/reasoning abilities.

An analogy is to consider the experience of those people who have lost a sense...like, a person who has lost eyesight. AND, how the brain adapts.

Surely this is well known, and has been studied extensively....

In any case, the point of the OP was to point out that in the struggle for survival, in early homind ancestors that led directly to homo sapiens sapiens, (sentience), many many factors were at play, and worked together in concert. Protein-dense foods, and their ready availability might have contributed to a sort of tipping point in ancestral development.

The spark initiated in some as yet undetermined way (many theories) but a protein-enriched diet was further stimulus, amongst the many others. We may have still climbed up the ladder of sentience without it, but the path would have likely been slower....that is a reasoning of late, and makes sense when viewed in the context, and with fullness of comprehension of other mitigating factors.

There is a recent article (as yet controversial, I believe) that postulates our species was near extinction, due to climatictic changes, some ~400,000 years ago...in Scientific American, this month.

I have yet to read it, but will in a week or so....just scanned it, for now.