Christians 100% Nonbelievers 0%

Here is a scenario - what if it turns out that if you helped your brother and were generally nice - that maybe you were a nice person.

What if it turned out that if you were horrible to people, and/or murdered them - maybe you were a bad person.

Where would we put Jesus in this scenario?

Jesus always loves, always forgives, and always turns you to God.

Jesus says repent.

But my problem is that Jesus is all about love and forgiveness, but God is about punishment.

So, could someone please enlighten me - why are God/Jesus/the holy ghost one and the same?

And who or what is the holy ghost?

God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are considered one in the same. Which, personally, I don't understand the whole concept either because in the bible God is shown as a wrathful being, and should be feared. Jesus is supposed to be God in the flesh, but also his only son. Who is also a loving individual. The holy ghost is the incarnation of God in ones self. Also Jesus is seen as ones ticket into heaven, and most christians believe they must "accept Jesus into their heart" in order to walk into the white pearly gates. None of this really makes since to me. I grew up in a christian home, with these beliefs practically scared into me. That I should fear God, and for some odd reason accept himself, who is also his son, into my heart, and then by some crazy miracle no matter what I do, I'll be ok.. So according to that a person could kill someone, or commit some crazy sin, and still be forgiven and allowed into heaven. None of it makes since to me... So I don't know what to tell ya.

I personally think that our perceptions of one or another are distorted. We do not actually escape the wrath of punishment for evil, we live them within our mind in the form of guilt.

We do not have a form of innocence, unless we help others that have less, we are challenged everyday. That's our challenge. Us, as a people, are not connected, we don't know, but IMO we will be called into question about what we did when we realized that others needed and we did nothing.

Our love, and compassion will also be called into question. What will you say. I am lets say relentless, but what about those who chose to not bother.

im sure others will have a long ass paragraph or we. but ill make this quick. how is giving you eternal life punishment. god will only disconnect those nonbelievers. thats it. jesus is the son of god. i look at it like this. the universe is a program. god is the programmer. kinda like a ai supercomputer. jesus is what god would be if he were a human in this program were in. why would anyone deny their creator anyways. evolution theory itself has so flaws . look how unique each personis and how mathamatically complex this universe program is. anyways i believe in christ because i have faith that hes the only one that can save me. hes the only way for me to get to god because he is human like i am. which is why he forgives. no one is perfect. god knows this even ur most advanced tech glitches. we gotta fix ourselves to be better

Jesus is not God. They are two separate beings. The holy spirit is not a being. If anything it is an active force from God. The whole trinity doctrine is false.

Thanks for your replies but I am still left wondering.

Why is Jesus gentle and kind, God is saying "I am judging you", and I still don't know who the holy spirit is.

OK, I am still sticking to Jesus - you can't go wrong there.

So, help others, love others and forgive others - can't be wrong.

Think of it like this, God is the Father…think of a natural father here on earth….how strict is the father here over his child and especially how protected he is over his child….most truly caring fathers here on earth will protect their child and even punishes their child when doing wrong or scolds them etc….God the Father is the same way….now think of how you will feel if your child was kidnapped how you would do anything to tell the truth to tell everything you know to try and find your child to get your child back…..satan kidnapped Gods creation, evil came upon us all. God sent his Son Jesus to teach us and explain to us, “hey its really this way, all my Father really askes of you is to obey the commandments and to love one another” etc…

Now Jesus is the Son of the Father…now think of you being the son of your father…..now lets say you messed up and made the father of your best friend angry at you, you overstepped your bounders with him….now the son your best friend is going to go to his father and try and smooth things over with him and tell him how sorry you are, and you your self may come and ask for his forgiveness etc….and since you took that step the father forgives you ….

Now think of the Holy Spirit as your comforter….someone whom comforts you and holds you when your sad, lonely, scared, confused etc…..the closer you are to God the more you can feel the Holy Spirit there protecting you…

I hope this makes since too ya

[edit on 2-8-2010 by Shar]

you should just pray and ask god. maybe he will give you the answer ur looking for

reply to post by Shar


So why is it God the Father/God the Son/and the holy ghost?

Who is that - or what is that?

I would like someone to tell me who or what is the holy ghost.

reply to post by catwhoknows


You see, in my opinion you are looking at it from the completely wrong angle.

I recently posted this analogy in a different thread, however i'm growing rather fond of it so i'll use it again here.

Religion is like music. The majority of folks will only ever hear the "incredible riffs" or the "sick beats". A handful of people will hear the lyrics. Out of that handful, only one or two will comprehend them.

It sounds as if you are trying to come to terms with your chosen religion, good for you.
If you can take some time and wrap your head around the concept above, you'll begin to see the answers to the equation.

reply to post by blood0fheroes


Thank you for an answer - that I can't understand!

How am I looking at it if I am the wrong perspective?

OK, here is me - I believe in the teachings of Jesus - even if Jesus did not exist - I believe in loving, nurturing and caring.

But I just cannot get my head around a judging god - and forget the holy spirit.

I saw interesting documentary yesterday where was said that jesus was considered as normal human from begining but after few hundred years church/vatican made great effort to turn him into god and also erase his brothers especially Jacob from bible and history, because god cant have normal brothers.

reply to post by Zmurfix


Thank you - more lies.

But I still say, it doesn't matter if Jesus was a lie because we need those teachings.

Even though we have war in the world, we still need to love each other.

Food for though, but "sticking with jesus" could be the wrong choice...

Consider if the wrathful god, is the ultimate ruler who sent down his only son. Now we don't know much about jesus' teen years, he just drops off the map. Maybe he was coming to terms with being the son of god? Perhaps he decided to stick one to his dad by being kind and loving?

reply to post by catwhoknows

OK, here is me - I believe in the teachings of Jesus - even if Jesus did not exist - I believe in loving, nurturing and caring.

Here you have your starting point. These teachings are the music, the "beat" if you will. All religions share the same tempo. The similarities do not end there. Now you must try, strain, to hear the lyrics to the song. Then comes acceptance, and comprehension.

Remember this: "It is not enough to merely seek the Truth. One must have the courage upon finding, to accept it."

reply to post by jokei


Sticking with Jesus will never be the wrong choice.

As for God...who would ever want to be around him?

He is like a horrible angry father.

reply to post by catwhoknows




John 14:26 (King James Version)

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

and still to this day well over 2000 years the Words Jesus spoke has not been forgotten and still go across the world....

okay we first hear about all three in 1st kings chapter 19:9

9 And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?


notice the "word"

in John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

so The Word was in the beginning and we know this to be Jesus....He brought the Word to us.....

1st kings 19: 11And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:

12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

these two verses show us that the Lord came and the still small voice (Holy Spririt) so in the old testament is where all three is mentioned for the very first time....hope this helps....

I found that documentary on youtube



I´m noth christian but it was interesting even for me.

Originally posted by catwhoknows

But my problem is that Jesus is all about love and forgiveness, but God is about punishment.

So, could someone please enlighten me - why are God/Jesus/the holy ghost one and the same?

And who or what is the holy ghost?

Sure, God punishes. But so did Mike Brady and Danny Tanner. But when thinking of them we see loving fathers, not brutal dictators. Why? Because thats what loving fathers do. They make rules to protect you from perils you don't understand and then enforce them to keep you from making those mistakes and harming yourself.

The above post's father, friend analogy is good. I tend to think of it like this: God is the monarch, Jesus is the Prime Minister. What happens if you run up to Buckingham Palace screaming to get an audience with the Queen? Some guy in a cool hat hits you with a rifle.

However, if you go through the Parliament and talk to the Prime Minister, he can talk to the Queen on your behalf. Now, if the Queen finds some injustice and decides to do a sweep of the country to catch offenders. You can go to the Prime Minister (who happens to know you personally) and he can go to the Queen and vouch for you to ensure you are not picked up in the sweep.

The Holy Spirit is the power that was left on earth when Jesus left. It can be used by him for various purposes. I have no fun analogies for it however. I tend shy away from the whole Trinity teaching and view all three of them as separate beings but with all power and authority of God himself. To a citizen is there really a difference of power between the Queen and the Prime Minister? Not really, since the Queen gives the Prime Minister authority to govern as well.

[edit on 2-8-2010 by Chillimac]

Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by jokei

 

Sticking with Jesus will never be the wrong choice.

As for God...who would ever want to be around him?

He is like a horrible angry father.

All rebellious teens think their fathers are horrible and angry. But are they really? Or is it just the teenager wanting to be able to do whatever they want with no consequences?