Do you REALLY defend freedom?

It is really nice to declare that you defend freedom, but the TRUE test is if you defend the right of others, when you disagree with them.

Are you an equal opportunity freedom fighter, or are you a liar to yourself?

Just a simple question folks, do you believe in FREEDOM?

The united States of America was founded on a principle. This principle had NEVER been attempted before.

The principle that man, as a Sovereign Being, could make her/his own choice. Think about this, if you want freedom, for what YOU believe, are you going to attempt to enforce YOUR beliefs on another?

Freedom is SCARY. For thousands of years we as a society have been trained almost like Pavlovian dogs to except certain restraints.

Do we REALLY need these restraints? One thing that some people will disagree with me, one is the collectivistic attitude our government has engendered upon us. Or at least attempted to ingrain in our psyche. Ask yourself this, how has that progressed?

Next, people will argue, what about the children, what about the disabled? Look to your history, were these people discarded? Were they abandoned?

I mean REALLY look at our history folks. Who, or WHAT prevented us from providing for our family? NOTHING.

Who is providing for YOUR family now? Are you? Or are you involved in something else?

Explain to me what the HELL is going on. I mean something is COMPLETELY wrong with our society. We put the government before ourselves!?

YOU, are what make this country strong. Remember that, they have NOTHING without the society. NOTHING!

I think many Americans would agree with the following quote:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Originally posted by State of Mind
I think many Americans would agree with the following quote:
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Yes, of course we will defend what we have to say, but what if we do not want anything to do with government?

I will bring the AMISH or the other religious folk into the discussion, do they actually appreciate a use for the 800 military bases around the world? How about the bases in the 130+ countries of the world.

Do you think the AMISH appreciate that the US controls 130/200 countries of the world? Or however many there are?

Go war, go control.

Just some questions, just some info, just some DUURRRR!

Just wondering if anyone read this article.

I had one response.

Just wondering if anyone else read?

reply to post by endisnighe


The principle that man, as a Sovereign Being, could make her/his own choice. Think about this, if you want freedom, for what YOU believe, are you going to attempt to enforce YOUR beliefs on another?

I think the issue really needs to be addressed from what is 'believed' to what one 'trusts'

It's seems your mixing freewill and freedom as a collective unit.
Freewill is ignorance, freedom allows options.

All people are born ignorant without information, most of the information we do have is accumaltive sencondhand information, the information has a history, historic value in it's development It promotes intelligence overcoming fraustration, Your know freewill grows changes as you mature in intelligence.

Freewill is not freedom, freewill is your measurement of ignorance(s)
If this was not the case than you would not have laws to guild you would not have jails police court etc...

Freedom is the expression of options, options that were derived from intelligence based on history with historic value knowledge wisdom.

"freewill is the choice of freedom in options"
I trust in this statement, why do I need to believe in it?

Originally posted by endisnighe

Remember that, they have NOTHING without the society. NOTHING!

There is no They"; there is only You and Me.

Together, we make Us, and we are the Society that you speak of.


That you hold in such high regard.



There is no "they", no "them".

And I would even go so far as to argue that the infamous, so-called "Powers That Be" are merely just a bunch of "us" who have fallen out of favor with another bunch of "us".


Until we realize that each one of us is responsible to and for each and every one of the rest of us, we will continue to find ways to shirk our responsiblities to ourselves and others by attempting to differentiate who is "Us" and who is "Them".


Because only then can we, in some twisted rationalization, claim that They are responsible for not allowing Us to live as we were meant to live.

Originally posted by State of Mind
I think many Americans would agree with the following quote:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Evelyn Beatrice Hall

They will agree with the quote but not do it.

Its the same everywhere on the planet. People love inspirational speakers they can get behind, but they will not actually DO anything.


[edit on 1-8-2010 by Copernicus]

reply to post by endisnighe


You can accuse me of being an “agent of the elites” or whatever for saying this but I can assure you I am not, it is more of an ideological belief. Freedom, absolute freedom is a stupid idiotic liberal idea that should never have been attempted. For true freedom to exist there can be on legislative branch of government cannot rather we have to be governed by a social code. The idea’s that liberals have for this being possible is that man is inherently good, what a joke. Freedom is a fantastic idea in principle, I love it in principle but it has a major flaw, MAN. Some people are too stupid, evil or both to be trusted with absolute freedom.

In answer to your question I do not defend “freedom” nor do I lie to myself, I strongly believe in government, that includes the role of the legislative branch. If restricting the freedom of the nation increases the prosperity of the state then I have no reason to disagree.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
If restricting the freedom of the nation increases the prosperity of the state then I have no reason to disagree.

Boy is that a broad brush to paint with or what?

You could start a heated thread with that statement alone.

reply to post by badgerprints


I sort of have, it was about restricting freedom of speech to make a society more tolerant.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by badgerprints

 

I sort of have, it was about restricting freedom of speech to make a society more tolerant.

Urg.

I think we'd have clashed.

Regards.

reply to post by endisnighe


Your point is well taken and understood.
Truth is however there is not a lot you can do without tipping the boat over.

If that’s something you’re up for then I suggest you stop typing on the key board and light a fire under your current ambitions. Please do not take offense to that statement it is not meant as an insult to you or anyone else.

My stance on this came down to only two possible options, both of which I have accepted as possibilities and one I actually carried out.

Leave the country that you are displeased with for a number of grievances. (This is what I did.) In the hopes that you may find what you are looking for somewhere else for the time being.

OR number 2
. Draft up a personal declaration of war against your federal government in the form of the example below.
Consider it treasonous, but no more so than the bastards who think they own you.


EXAMPLE:


For the wrongs committed against the free people of the United States of America and the world, and for wicked malfeasance treasonously and deceitfully enacted against its own citizenry.

I_________________________________being a free citizen of sound mind do this_____ day of_______2010, in the defense of personal and national sovereignty declare war on the Federal (ADD A GOVT. AND A COUNTRY HERE) for the following grievances.

(List of grievances)

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
. etc.



Signature of Public Notary ____________________.

Date_______________


In the end defending liberty is all about personal sacrifice, you will lose it all to gain it for people who wont even remember your name in generations to come.
If that sounds like something that you can accept, then I'm on your side until the end of life.

Pretty extreme maybe I don't know.
Peace
Snow


[edit on 1-8-2010 by snowen20]

[edit on 1-8-2010 by snowen20]

reply to post by endisnighe


If you don't defend freedom, you become the subject of a foreign power.

Which foreign power would you like to become a subject to? China? Russia? Cuba? Venezuela? Mexico?

Yeah, sit back and enjoy Utopia.

Originally posted by State of Mind
I think many Americans would agree with the following quote:
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Evelyn Beatrice Hall

I agree with the stated disagree that its actually happening, when is the last time you said sure if he wants to smoke let him or anything you personally disliked or disapproved of, its his business not mine (non smoker by the way).

More and more people are infringing on others freedoms because its not to there liking or beliefs!! and each and every time someone tells someone else to stop doing or saying something because it hurts there feelings or beliefs the very fabric of free speech and expression is reduced, but I think its far beyond changing now anyway, just a memory of what it was once.

I don't have to like it and if I don't have have choices, non of which should be to tell you to stop it.

I am not in any way implying that mentally or psychically harming another is a freedom!!!

[edit on 1-8-2010 by svpwizard]

What I find funny is the hypocrites.

Example, those that say a woman's body is their own, yet mine is not.

Abortion-Legal
Drugs-Illegal

I do not believe in abortion except for rape, incest or the mother's life, but I defend other's choice.

You do not believe in freedom unless you can DEFEND something you DISBELIEVE in.

Sorry to tell you this folks, if you do not believe in FREEDOM of the individual, YOU are the tyrant our founders warned us about.

John Adams: "Property is surely a right of mankind as real as liberty."

Thomas Jefferson: "The exercise of a free trade with all parts of the world [is] possessed by [a people] as of natural right"

Benjamin Franklin: "The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either."

George Washington: "Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth."

Thomas Paine: "When men yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of liberty quits the horizon."

Patrick Henry: "Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?"

And one quote that ALL of you out there should understand.

Samual Adams is not a beer.

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, — go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!”

IMO you cannot ask someone if they defend something that they are not aware that they don't have. Just because someone in school told you that you had the right to freedom doesn't mean that this applies to you.

We live in a country that thrives on words that are told in the context of it "should be", rather than "it is". When some Americans speak of freedom, they speak for what they think is a privilege, not a right, a right can be taken away.

We are not taught freedom for "everyone", just that it should be, but if they don't have it, well then maybe we can show them how its done, all the while, every other country despises our sense of morals, and they know about our so called freedoms, and ask around to another country and see what we've provided.

Of course what I am saying will not be taken nicely, but these are my truths, and I don't think that I have the right nor the privilege to say what I have, I was not born in the USA, I was born on Earth, and as long as I know that my creator is not who was president when I was born, and the laws that were in place since Ive resided on this beautiful planet, were written from a tree and not on them, they I will live as I choose.

Though many of us cannot just walk this way, we can in mind. That's what no one can take the freedom to use our brains, our hearts, and our unity. You pay your taxes, great but do you know that you are free? You work for the Gov. Great as long as you know how the game is played, your always a step ahead.

I will hope that some day we will all want freedom for everyone, we don't live in states, with statutes and laws we live on a planet, where people before we were born decided to stake claim.

Man is man, and as far as I'm concerned the right to freedom and to happiness was mine all along, I don't need anyone to tell me other wise. I hope that one day we can all see the men behind the curtain.

America didn't give me my right to anything, it was given to me by the Creator (whoever that might be), and I will exercise that right till me last breath. As should everyone else.

If participating in the game, gives me such pieces of information, such as this site, then I will take it, I will take what I deserve, not with the intent on harm, or greed, but on knowledge, and one of the greatest mistakes that man has given is his ego so big, gave us a tool, and we've chose wisely. To come here and not only discuss the constant mistakes that hes made, but what we can do to get ourselves back on track.

As long as you know that freedom is always yours. How can you fight for what is your?

Sorry I went on a rant, but this is something sometimes that has to be said.

Peace to you my friend...

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


BTW How can your freedom be given, never the less taken away. If freedom was always your to begin with, the only way for it to be taken, is if you give back what was never yours.

Peace to you...

reply to post by Bhadhidar


Us, them, they are anyone that attempts to enforce their will, their beliefs, their control upon you.

I am not talking about the elusive PTB. I am talking about you. You being anyone that wants to decide for me, what to do with my Life, My Liberty, My Property.

I am not allowed to infringe on your Life, your Liberty or your Property.

Of course there needs to be a government. Generally exactly what is written in the Constitution. Of course we will have people say but what about the _________. We have to think about the _______. That is what the courts and Peace officers are for. You harm another, you infringe on their rights. As a citizen, you can swear out a warrant for them to be arrested and place into a Grand Jury. If there is enough evidence the Grand Jury calls for a trial. Boom, TRUE justice served. None of this political hack crap we have now that tries and control everything we do by robbing us of our freedom.

That is all. Good day.

reply to post by endisnighe


Do I REALLY defend freedom ?


No-one's business


In any case, my concept of freedom may not be that of the next person


Tell you what, though ----- I am SO SICK of people prattling on about 'freedom' ! As if it existed in concrete form. What the hell is wrong with Americans and their endless chanting of 'freedom' --- when these are the SAME people who salute US troops when they return from raping, torturing and killing people on the soil of their victims !

I seriously doubt one in a hundred would know freedom from a bar of soap

Reply to post by Bhadhidar

They stopped being "us" when they took hold of the magically granted power to shoot me in the face for not paying an imaginary bill they arbitrarily decided.


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