The simple reality of 9/11, what we know and what we don't

I've always wondered something. If those buildings didn't fall how were they going to put them out? You have two of the world' tallest buildings on fire near the top. There was no way to put those fires out using conventional means.

So I started to wonder if bringing them down was the only choice that could be made.

[edit on 31-7-2010 by Come Clean]

Airspoon that was an awesome read....

Thank you for your brutal honesty it is much appreciated. I can imagine (more so now) how difficult your position in all of this must be. Mad Respect to you.

9/11 was a massive event that has altered the course of humanity. I have been delving for answers for a while now and for me, September the 11th had to be an Inside Job. A well planned false flag operation orchestrated by ******* that had/has factions within the highest levels of US government, miltary and intelligence.

The 9/11 Commission Report was a joke. As you point out only 12 million was spent on the largest 'terrorist' attack in US history?!? Then it fails to even mention WTC7??? Max Cleland's words speak volumes...

The video of the Bin Laden is another key issue that you have raised. They way they found it, the lack of play time and rather obvious double, all make it a very telling piece of evidence. Here is a comparison photo.

The Pentagon footage is another major issue, in my opinion. If the OS was legitimate they would show a clear video of the alleged 757 collision to reinforce their story and their reasons for a global 'war on terror'. Are we supposed to accept this footage being worthy and as proof of a 757??? Seriously?


There are so many anomalies and unanswered questions surrounding this historic event. I would love to see a new investigation somehow breakthrough the persistent stonewalling......

Thank you once again for the epic thread. I wish you all the best as you continue on your journey of truth and enlightenment.

Better a cruel truth, than a gentle lie.

Peace

While I do appreciate, and respect the sacrifices the OP has made. I must point out that his beliefs are based on some inaccuracies or....half truths.

The insurance policy....NOT unprecedented, actually, his lenders wanted him to have a much larger policy.

WTC 7...NOT "quite a distance" away, basically across the street, and pictures of WTC1's collapse show 7 being clobbered by debris.

The "independant" investigation...always a misnomer.. Very few people actually say who they felt would be "independant" enough to investigate. Not to mention what resources they would use. Face it, if you are going to complain the government did not spend enough money, then you need to drop your complaining about the investigation not being "independant". Because if it is being funded by the Government, it will not be independant.

Moving on to not enough money being spent.....the Commission wasnt charged with putting on their coveralls and poking around Ground Zero. They were charged with going through the reports by other agencies, analyzing data, and interviewing officials who were involved in responding to the events that day. The majority of the investigating, was done by the FBI, CIA, FDNY, NYPD, NSA etc......and it was their reports that the Commission received. So the comparision to the Columbia investigation is complete and total BS. The 15 billion spent by the Commission, does not include all the money spent by the other agencies investigating.


The pipeline....already debunked years ago. Not to mention it was the CLINTON administration who invited that Taliban to Texas.......Governor Bush wasnt informed about it until the visit was already scheduled.

There is many more items that could be addressed, but thats enough for now.

You would be better off researching the last 30 plus years of incompetence/negligence of our elected officials so you could see that the only thing being covered up about 9/11......was just how crappy a job they did over that 30 plus years.

reply to post by airspoon


It's hard to want to fight bleed and die for a corrupt and inept government.

This OP helps people to understand why the trusters and the deniers are the way they are, and why.

It's like having a popular and very close and likable member of your family accused of child abuse, some don't want to investigate to find out if it's true because if it is then the ramifications destroy a family. And even when they do investigate, there is an emotional bias that if there isn't very clear proof then it didn't happen.

Ignorance of some evil fact can cause peace of mind, whereas an evil truth really disturbs us emotionally and mentally, people go into automatic protection mode. I can't say I really blame them. I know this whole revelation really disturbed me when the epiphany of 9/11 hit me one night after watching one video documentary.

Very well put together airspoon! S&F!

There are a couple of other known facts that were left out though, such as:

There were military exercises taking place on 9/10 and 9/11 including Operation Vigilant Guardian, which simulated airplanes being hijacked by terrorists, which confused Air Traffic Controllers.

Not a single fighter aircraft was scrambled to find out why the planes had flown off course, turned off their transponders and cut communications.

We know that after both of the World Trade Center Towers were laying on the ground in rubble, Dick Cheney was sitting in the PEOC being advised of another hijacked plane flying toward Washington and being continually updated as the plane closed in, but refused to do or allow anything to be done to stop the aircraft from flying within 1 mile of the White House at a very low altitude and slamming into the Pentagon.

Washington D.C. is the most heavily protected airspace on the planet, and absolutely nothing was done to protect it. And, we know that it is Standard Operating Procedure for NORAD to scramble fighters to intercept aircraft that are off course and not responding to communication attempts.

We know that Bin Laden and Al Qaeda have immediately taken credit after every other terrorist attack they were involved in, but were unusually quiet after the 9/11 attacks, and it was only later on that the U.S. government supposedly found a video with Bin Laden claiming responisbility for the attacks, in a house in Pakistan!

And, we know that before there was a shred of evidence the Bush Administration was pointing the finger at Bin Laden, Al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein.

reply to post by mark-in-dallas

Washington D.C. is the most heavily protected airspace on the planet, and absolutely nothing was done to protect it. And, we know that it is Standard Operating Procedure for NORAD to scramble fighters to intercept aircraft that are off course and not responding to communication attempts.

Another inaccuracy. Washington D.C. wasn't really any more heavily protected than any other city in the U.S. Sure, there were a couple of fighters on "alert" at Andrews, but was it, and on 9/11 we were shown just how pitiful that really was. Of course, next, I am sure you will mention the secret (non-existant) missile batteries at the Pentagon.......

I like numbers and numbers don't lie like people do.

Study 9/11 in numbers and numbers will only tell you the truth.

Are there any studies done as to how they planned on putting those fires out?

well, one thing is for sure:

all the conflicts in the world
including what happened after 9/11
are staged

for what purpose?

very simple:
if there was peace in the world
no one would buy weapons

and the weapon market
and making wars
are the most lucrative
businesses at the moment

it's all about the money





[edit on 31-7-2010 by donhuangenaro]

reply to post by airspoon


Wow!! airspoon - thank you so much for coming forward with your feelings on this. As difficult as this last decade must have been for you I truly think you will be better off by facing this incongruence in your feelings and the facts. I will always think of you as a hero and warrior for freedom!

This is a great thread! So much info all in one place, without much speculation, relying on facts - thank you for an intelligent and well-thought and honest debate of what happened.

I do have one opposing statement, as follows:
To your first point, "Four (4) passenger jet airliners took off from their expected places of departure and none of them landed at their expected destinations."

Most of the information alleging that the airplanes took off from their respective airports has been provided by false or likely-involved sources such as NORAD or the inside investigators.
[li] All airports have dozens of video cameras recording every runway, taxiway, the gates, etc but NONE of the four alleged aircraft were recorded on that day.
[li] The flight data information gathered by AA 77 that allegedly crashed into the Pentagon was from a non-credible source: the flight data recorder supposedly from AA 77 was flat as a pancake and burned and one of very few pieces of airplane that were "found" on the scene.
[li] furthermore, the AA 77 data has been shown as false because it would have defied the laws of physics for an airplane to follow the path it allegedly did, while ascertaining the actual flight path from dozens of credible eye-witnesses.
[li] the UA 175 flight that crashed into the south tower was going more than one and a half times the maximum speed for a Boeing 767 and hundreds of professional pilots have come forth saying the move was impossible by a typical 767.
[li] the alleged cell phone conversations from the airplanes to loved ones were faked as although the cell phone could have reached the ground from the proposed altitude, the cell phones DID NOT HAVE the technology involved to switch cell towers travelling at high speeds.

The four airplanes allegedly involved were never seen at the airports and were never proven to be the respected commercial airliners involved.

Back to the imortant stuff - thank you so much for coming forward and sharing - I imagine it must have been a tough road for you. I believe you fought for our country with right mind and heart and I appreciate, and am sorry for, your sacrifice for us.

reply to post by mark-in-dallas


Since this thread is about FACTS..."what we know"...(and what we don't know), there are a few things that MUST be addressed, in this post. Incorrect things that, unfortunately, keep being presented as "facts", and clouding the entire issue. AND, perpetuating the mistaken "conspiracy" nonsense, and interferring with the REAL search, for the incompetents involved. This is disinformation spewed from a variety of "conspiracy-minded" websites:

There were military exercises taking place on 9/10 and 9/11 including Operation Vigilant Guardian, which simulated airplanes being hijacked by terrorists, which confused Air Traffic Controllers.

NO, the ATC were not "confused". NOT by Operation Vigilant Guardian.

The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States investigated the possibility that Vigilant Guardian preparations compromised the military's response to the attacks on September 11. They concluded that the exercise may have had, in fact, the effect of expediting the response to the attacks.

Source for the above, and snippet below:

"On 9/11, NORAD was scheduled to conduct a military exercise, Vigilant Guardian, which postulated a bomber attack from the former Soviet Union. We investigated whether military preparations for the large-scale exercise compromised the military's response to the real-world terrorist attack on 9/11. According to General Eberhart, "it took about 30 seconds" to make the adjustment to the real-world situation. Ralph Eberhart testimony, June 17, 2004. We found that the response was, if anything, expedited by the increased number of staff at the sectors and at NORAD because of the scheduled exercise. See Robert Marr interview (Jan. 23, 2004)."

This next statement?? It is so wrong, it causes one to wonder just WHY any website would ever put out such incorrect information, in view of hte fact that a simple bit of research shows it to be false:

Not a single fighter aircraft was scrambled to find out why the planes had flown off course, turned off their transponders and cut communications.

AS TO the bit about Cheney, in the "bunker"? Another (intentional) misinformation from the "conspiracy" websites, but for what reason?? No one knows.

It is well established that Cheney's orders were to "protect the House at all costs". This, of course, refers to the White House. It indicates that he had authorized (although not yet gone up the military chain of command, as little time had yet elapsed, and uncertainty still reigned) the shoot-down of airliners that seemed intent on impacting the WH.

Also, the timing of those remarks by Cheney, are uncertain....in some cases it seems that AAL 77 had already impacted the Pentagon, and the concern was regarding UAL 93, still 'inbound'...PLUS any others that may have been still out there, but as yet undetected!!!

...Dick Cheney was sitting in the PEOC being advised of another hijacked plane flying toward Washington and being continually updated as the plane closed in, but refused to do or allow anything to be done to stop the aircraft from flying within 1 mile of the White House at a very low altitude and slamming into the Pentagon.

So, the actual sequence of events, there, seem to be inaccurate as well....the way the ATS member posted them (likely just repeating from what he/she read somewhere).

Unfortunately for the "truth" search, too many seekers neglect to do a FULL search, relying instead on the many "conspiracy" sites, and not looking more deeply into other sources....sources far more reliable, in most cases.

THAT sort of research involves stepping OUTSIDE, and away from the Web. There are vast amounts of information out there that may not/doesn't exist on the Internet.

Finally, this red herring as already been addressed, up above:

Washington D.C. is the most heavily protected airspace on the planet....

...and is yet another example of the "conspiracy" sites' misinformation, as mentioned before.

~~~~
The OP's efforts are impressive....change to "extensive", (**edit in --- after taking another look, less hurriedly at the OP, I am revising my initial assessment. I see a few factual misunderstandings/errors, and I attribute those to, as usual, the "conspiracy" websites, and their false information that is prevalent there...HOWEVER, notwithstanding a few wild goose chases, much of what's provided in the OP comports with many of MY impressions, especially regarding the complicity of he Bush Administration to use those heinous events to their advantage, regarding their 'goals' in the ME) --- still, hopefully will help to cut through all the BS that has infested this subject since September 12th, 2001. Glad to see the most outrageous "theories" omitted...(except, as mentioned, "nano-thermxte". Doesn't fit into any of the observed patterns, nor is it logical/practical, when examined more closely, in effectiveness as "claimed").

Still combing through the OP, so those are initial impressions...but I have confidence it is presented in a logical manner, to allow a reasoned discourse. (** As edited above, it is a reasoned and nicely presented OP, but it appears to be flawed, as flowing from incorrect premises, in many cases).




[edit on 31 July 2010 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker


Any thoughts on how they planned on putting the fires out?

reply to post by Come Clean


Yes....carrying hoses up 100 flights of stairs, hooking them up to the firemains and opening the valves. The old-fashioned way.

Airspoon, i think you have about summed up the situation as it stands.....

In a choice between the two "theories", common sense,(totalling pros and cons and balancing results)leads the open mind to the inescapable conclusion.........Weve been lied to.....And the cover up is flimsy at best....!

I believe that most people have come to this same crossroads.....Now it remains to be seen what they will do about it...
I believe we are waiting for a leader,and i guess it just isnt who we got this time.....
One thing id do believe is that when sufficient good people have had enough....they will stand up together....
I know id see you there...

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by Come Clean

 

Yes....carrying hoses up 100 flights of stairs, hooking them up to the firemains and opening the valves. The old-fashioned way.

LOL!!! Finally someone answered. Thanks!

Seems odd water would work if the fire was so hot it melted steel beams. But anyways, I guess hoses is one way to put them out. So would collapsing the building and smothering the fire.

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by mark-in-dallas

 

Of course, next, I am sure you will mention the secret (non-existant) missile batteries at the Pentagon.......

I don't mention things that don't exist!

But yeah, fighters on alert at Andrews Air Force base provide no protection for Washington D.C. How many armed fighter aircraft do you have ready to launch at a moments notice in your backyard?


Then there's this anti-missle battery right next to the runway.




If you don't buy the above image, then take a look for yourself on Google Earth here: maps.google.com...,-77.080078&sspn=22.564443,38.62793&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear= Joint+Base+Andrews+Naval+Air+Facility,+Prince+George's,+Maryland&ll=38.79423,-76.877657&spn=0.00069,0.001179&t=h&z=20



[edit on 31-7-2010 by mark-in-dallas]

We should've went in Saudi Arabia right after 9/11. Not a full military invasion but pull an Israeli commando assassination style campaign. And then went into Pakistan afterwards. Our so called allies are the real enemies along with Israel.

But of course, oil gets in the way of everything, doesn't it...

[edit on 31-7-2010 by SeventhSeal]

reply to post by mark-in-dallas


We have fighters positioned all over America fully armed. Called Alert Aircraft. Most of the air farce keeps them in little hangers. But they are fully armed and can be launched in 90 seconds or less.

It is seriously to the point to me that if you don't think something other than the OC happened you have to be the most stubborn people in history. I served in the Coast Guard during and after the attack, two weeks after we were at full dress ship for our New boss of Homeland Sec. Mr. Ridge. After that the Coast Guard went to hell, never knowing who is in charge to being given the wrong cordinates for "terrorist" actions. 18 yr old kids right out of boot camp being given guns with no training and put on watch and told to STOP terrorist. Nothing ever happened after 9-11, it was all a scam still is a scam and every "terrorist" to this day has either been forced or manipulated to carry out bogus acts to take more and more freedom from each and every one of us. The investigation into whether 19 arabs carried out 9-11 is over. It is time to face the cold hard truth that we have been lied to, are being lied to and will be lied to. Nothing anyone can reply to change my mind, Im ony 28 and I will never understand why all the damn baby boomers let our country spiral out of control like it is. We should never have gotten this far into total corperate facsism and 9-11 was the nail in the coffin to prove to the elite that no matter what they do, the stupified obese, brainwashed american citizen will do nothing as long as they get fed a constant supply of horse #, cow #, pig # and "democratic election" jargon. Im over it, the debate is over, you are either with the truth that 9-11 was an inside job or you are with the terrorist as Mr. bush put it. Who's side are you on boy, who's side are you on? ...........
i dont care about my spelling either !!!
www.youtube.com...

What I like is the psychology of people stuck in a system. Let me outline the real problem here for us all.

To accept a few of these points and we've all pointed different aspects of them out to various people, is when faced with these damning facts you can watch the little light behind their eyes goes out.

It is like a programmed defense mechanism quickly pulls the curtains across the windows and puts up the "Nobody home!" sign.

Then the defensive psychology goes further along with the attempted bolstereing of their now fragile ego, as it says- "You have a conspiracy theorist standing before you. But it's ok, just avert your eyes, give a disinterested posture, and if necessary, begin wandering off from this person as if something more tangable has taken your attention. That should do the trick!"

There are several more subtle levels that this defensive psychology will employ, all geared towards ostricising the person who just threw a stone at their glass house. But you all know the routine.

All of this because to accept the horrible fact that our goverment and others were complicent in that attrocity brings down a house of cards that has been steadily build up in their minds since infancy.

911 being an inside job destroys protective archtypes that people cling to like life preservers in times like these.

Also to accept any part of these damning facts means that the comfortable person has to now start questioning all kinds of other stories supplied to us by our government that didn't sit right for them. That is until the government organization or contracted government organization supplied them with the feel good story to take that queeziness out of their stomachs allowing them to go back to washing their brand new SUV.

And here in lies the root of the defensive mechanism.....Survival. To accept that our government is nothing what we've been told since infancy and quite capable of kiling it's very own subjects in the interests of greed shatters or sheers the safety net that they've believed they were opperating over all along.

Would not there be a social disruption at every level if a majority of people (including themselves) rose up and demanded a new investigation that led to the prosecutions of several prominent politicians, military, and civilians?

And then that very person who you have convinced would now need to consider what would be lost to him/her during this social/political upheaval. Would they lose their beautiful SUV? Would the economy collapse during this fiasco making it impossible to feed their family? Would there be some type of civil revolution that would lead to gun fire and killings on the very block of the subdivision that they've workd so hard to put their families in?

I don't think that the real problem is the evidence folks. It is easy enough to gather that there was government complicity on many different levels if not all with just a cursory open-minded glance. The real problem is the reprocussions of the truth being unveiled to John Q Public who likes his little world just as it is.

How dare you rock his boat.








[edit on 31-7-2010 by warequalsmurder]