Afghan Women Fear Their Fate Amid Taliban Negotiations

reply to post by SLAYER69

Well if it will help why don't people write the Taliban leaders and have them knock this stuff off?

..........Maybe just leave off your return address for the sake of prudence.

Originally posted by SLAYER69


The fighting between the two groups was going long before 9/11 or the invasion. They didn't want to be apart of any Taliban ran Government ooz.
Northern Alliance

The United Islamic Front for the Salvation of Afghanistan (UIF, Jabha-yi Muttahid-i Islami-yi Milli bara-yi Nijat-i Afghanistan), more commonly known as the Afghan Northern Alliance, was a military-political umbrella organization created by the Islamic State of Afghanistan in 1996. The organization united various ethnic groups of Afghanistan fighting against each other to fight the ethnic Pashtun Taliban instead.

The Northern Alliance included Tajiks, Hazaras, Uzbeks, Turkmen, Pashtuns and others. Some of these ethnic groups are Shia with smaller numbers of Ismailis.

When did external forces mean US?

USSR, Pakistan, India, Iran, West, who knows even China probably has a hand in there touching Afghan politics.

It has been long time since Afghanistan has been politically stable, and when it was politically stable you didn't see this kind activities did you?

Chopping nose off, chopping ears off, beating women in the streets, etc etc.

Let's not forget, after the defeat of USSR, Afghanistan did try to form a coalition government, but didn't work once again due to external forces, hence Pakistan, Russia, Western puppet regimes, hence Saudi Arabia, Kuwait. India and Iran also watched for their own interest therefore pressured groups which cause the civil war.

Everyone has a hand in there, don't deny it please.

Interesting perspective, suggest the reading of the entire paper.

The Conclusion:

At the crossroads of Islamic fundamentalism and westernization, especially in terms of womens status, Afghanistan provides the testing grounds for the future of hybridization. The current socio-political situation provides a basis for new insights into theoretical constructions of modernity, secularism and gender equality. The situation of women in the future of Afghanistan might challenge the dominant discourse on citizenship and feminism as defined by the West and provide to non-western nations and minorities in western nations an alternative that can bring social justice and economic equality to all. For women in Afghanistan participation in the economic reconstruction of the country is essential to realize their dreams of a cohesive and peaceful nation; becoming victims of Islamic burqas and Western liberation is the least of their concern.

In Afghanistan, as in other traditional societies, women do not exist outside the family and community. Yet, family and kinship networks do not necessarily have to be destroyed in order to improve womens status through education, employment and access to resources. But they must be rearranged.

A History of Women in Afghanistan

[edit on 31-7-2010 by LadySkadi]

Anyone who bought and spread the lie about the U.S. bringing democracy and womens right to Afghanistan, please remember this now and bow your heads in shame. You are complicit.

From Huffington Post: "Although one condition in the reconciliation process is that anyone who wishes to rejoin the political mainstream has to lay down weapons, end violence, renounce al Qaeda and respect the constitution and laws of Afghanistan, which guarantee women's rights."

Really?

From RAWA: "Both the Taliban and the ruling mafia* know well that the day US/NATO occupation forces leave Afghanistan; all the tribes of Afghanistan will consider unity amongst themselves to topple their bloody rule."

Thank you for this thread, LadySkadi, and to all who participated.

This once again, opened my eyes wider. It's something I haven't done a lot of thinking about for a few years now. It was time to revisit it.

I agree about the agitators and interventionalists have been making this all so much worse through the years. And I'm appalled at the games that Karzai and the U.S. are playing now with the Taliban and tribes. False games crafted to fool people yet again. More agitation.

It's going to reset the clock back yet again for people who have been fighting and sometimes even winning a slow and steady fight through many of these same years for womens rights.

The RAWA article I quoted (a must read) and many of the posts here really made me think harder about the plight of the women in Afghanistan and in many other countries.

My stance is and always has been that it is up to them to fight, that no war or constitution is going to free them. It has to come from both within their culture and within themselves. And this is the story of a group of fierce and courageous women who fight.

For anyone who does not know, RAWA is the Revolutinary Association of the Women of Afghanistan. They've been active since 1977, and their goals are to promote womens rights and secular democracy.

They raised funds, established schools and hospitals for refugees in both Afghanistan and Pakistan and created jobs for women.

They fought through 80s and the Russian occupation. They fought through the 90s to expose womens abuse. In fact they shot some of the most shocking footage in the film Beneath the Veil, a film later used as U.S. propoganda.

They're fighting now through the U.S. occupation.

And they will keep fighting. As it should be. And we can support them whatever happens.They are heroes.

When the war drums on Afghanistan were beating, the lies about the state of womens rights were of course, greatly exaggerated. Women were going to school. They were working. They were fighting against the tribal pockets of resistance. They were able to travel out of the country to speak. They were exposing the Taliban and other pockets of abusers. Was it bad? Yes. But it was not nearly as primitive as some attempted to make us believe to support their illegal war.

Women were making headway against seemingly impossible odds. And then we again bombed them back into a darker ages. That pisses me off. It should piss everyone off.

reply to post by SLAYER69

Sadly, Slayer, that still happens almost all over the world...to one degree or another. And it has nothing to do with religion (not that you said it does, just that some do).

SLAYER69 and rival, you are both right to an extent, propaganda is there.

We are not in Afghanistan to fight for women's rights just as we're not there for anything other than the oil pipelines, 10 years of wasted effort, really we have been involved in Afghanistan since the 70's.

The magazine article and cover picture, is a propaganda piece, by Time magazine.

To put a "face" on the war for the American people.

Yes, it is horrendous that this woman was disfigured, even worse by her own husband.

Unfortunately, human rights violations go on, everywhere around the world.

A lot of countries honestly do not give a damn about their people.

And their Government's are some of the worst human rights violators.

[edit on 31-7-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Human Interest story or not, it does not negate the real world struggles of the women in the country, nor of the few men that would support them. Labeling it "propaganda for the American people" and leaving it there, minimizes what's happening and what they are facing and fighting. It dismisses them. Quite effectively. Not seen. Not heard. Here or there.

reply to post by LadySkadi

Yes it does minimize it. The film Beneath the Veil told an important story that in my opinion was trivialized when it was used and viewed as propaganda. Same for this article.

Both touch on far deeper issues, such as those we've already discussed here. How intervention and invasion by other nations makes things worse. How you can't legislate this type of abuse away with constitutions. How we simply do not understand the cultures enough to ever be able to predict cause and effect.

Originally posted by LadySkadi
Human Interest story or not, it does not negate the real world struggles of the women in the country, nor of the few men that would support them. Labeling it "propaganda for the American people" and leaving it there, minimizes what's happening and what they are facing and fighting. It dismisses them. Quite effectively. Not seen. Not heard. Here or there.

LadySkadi, I didn't intend to dismiss the dire circumstance these women
are faced with everyday, but I did intend to draw some attention
away from this emotionally provocative picture (for a moment) to say
that while your heart is reacting to this image, do not let your emotions
cloud your judgment.

In this world there are countless examples of human injustice that
Time could have covered as front page fodder to sell magazines, but
this image and story serves to perpetuate the zeigeist of anti-Muslim
sentiment that began in earnest on 9/11, and as such, it also serves
(quite handily) as pro-war propaganda.

In the days after 9/11 I cautioned everyone to not let your emotions
get in the way of your judgment (for obvious reasons, I hope)...I'm
simply restating that sentiment here.

With all that said, let me add, you cannot educate religious beliefs
away. You cannot war them into nonexistence. If our impetus for
war was this objective, it would be better served by dropping
cell phones and computers on Afghanistan and waiting on a more
moderate and educated generation to grow up---instead of
dropping bombs...

I see I am straying off topic here, point is, when the magician directs
your attention to a specific area, it is NEVER towards where the
chicanery is taking place.

How sad, I am so enraged, how can anyone justify this?

I feel so sorry for her, and if the war were about protecting these women and keeping them safe from monsters like these men who do this, then sign me up because I would kill every one of those pieces of human waste I can find.

This woman was disfigured and brutalized in the name of someones religion. That is not religion that is terrorism, and the men who did this need to be exterminated for terrorism.

What can we do to help? Especially someone like me who is stuck here in America. How can I help stop this? Does anyone know any agencies that fight for women in these barbaric terrorist laden lands?

reply to post by hotbakedtater


This link is in one of the articles, though I know nothing of this organization:
womenforafghanwomen

Same organization - press links:
Press Links

I would suspect that searching online for human rights advocate groups would also help narrow resources.





[edit on 31-7-2010 by LadySkadi]

reply to post by hotbakedtater

Do you believe this is related to religion?

If so, why? I only ask because I see this as more of a cultural issue and even a human issue than a religious one, and I would like to gain a better perspective from those who believe it is religious and why.

Also, do you believe we are really there fighting for womens rights? If so, same basic questions as for the religious question.

[edit on 7/31/2010 by ~Lucidity]

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by hotbakedtater

 

Do you believe this is related to religion?

If so, why? I only ask because I see this as more of a cultural issue and even a human issue than a religious one, and I would like to gain a better perspective from those who believe it is religious and why.

Also, do you believe we are really there fighting for womens rights? If so, same basic questions as for the religious question.

[edit on 7/31/2010 by ~Lucidity]

I believe since the US has been there, women's right has been demeaned rather than glorified under Afghan binoculars.

The West went to Afghanistan in the name of Democracy, terrorism, Women's rights, and freedom.

All of these are given bad names, Afghans are blaming those Women who wanted to wear make up, and mini skirts for what is happening in Afghanistan right now.

This is the fact of the matter.

Look at Iran.

Why doesn't those who want to wear makeup and miniskirt want help from the West? They already made it clear, that the Western interference will hurt their cause, rather than help them.

Don't forget, when Afghanistan was stable, people in Kabul University wore miniskirts in the harsh freezing condition of Kabul Winter. 3 meter snow/.

My dad went to Kabul University, he is a civil engineer, and that is his account of how it was.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by hotbakedtater

 

Do you believe this is related to religion?

If so, why? I only ask because I see this as more of a cultural issue and even a human issue than a religious one, and I would like to gain a better perspective from those who believe it is religious and why.

Also, do you believe we are really there fighting for womens rights? If so, same basic questions as for the religious question.

[edit on 7/31/2010 by ~Lucidity]

No we are not fighting this war for women's rights or humans rights, I never claimed belief in any such thing.

Are the taliban not basing their terrorism on religious laws? Maybe I misunderstand, but I thought the husband terrorizing and mutilating his wife was done based upon religious beliefs of some sort.

Maybe someone can set me straight if I am wrong on that.

reply to post by oozyism


That's what I recall as well, from my research (lost now) at the start of the renewed war in 2001-2003 (that's how long I followed the story).

As I said earlier, we bombed them back to a darker age.

reply to post by hotbakedtater

Are the taliban not basing their terrorism on religious laws? Maybe I misunderstand, but I thought the husband terrorizing and mutilating his wife was done based upon religious beliefs of some sort.

The background is that she was given to her "husband" as a child in pymt. for a debt. She was made to live in the barn with the animals and was starved and beaten. When she had her first menstrual cycle at 12 years old, she was than married to the man (think he was 40+) and she continued to endure horrible beatings. She ran away, was brought back and a Taliban judge sentenced her for this. The family (husband and brother in law) then carried out this mutilation. My interpretation is that this is a tribal/cultural response/punishment for her trying to leave. She's now hidden in a shelter in Kabul.


[edit on 31-7-2010 by LadySkadi]

reply to post by hotbakedtater

Sorry, I did misread about the war part. You did say, "if the war...sign me up!" I agree with that. There are ways we can support these women without wars. These wars just seem to open the door to returned barbarism. Sigh.

I'm not all that sure about the religious part either. From what I've learned, observed, and spoken to people about, it appears to be more a cultural thing. I suppose it could be some idiot misinterpretation of some religious writings or leadership, but that still doesn't mean it is really about or because of religion, does it?

Like we said, abuse like this is everywhere. Even in the U.S. And it occurs for many different reasons.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


I was reading on the thread about Cartel Wars in our backyard, just one quarter of a mile across the U.S. border in Mexico.

I read your post on that thread. The essence of the message, was that someone visited someone in Texas, and they told somebody's aunt, or neighbor, or somebody, that people were on rooftops, slaughtering people, and that teenagers were knocking on doors in the wee-hours demanding $250.00 from poor people.

Your response (the gist) was the U.S. should get their butts over there and do something about this murderous travesties.

On this thread we have the cover of a reputable magazine, sadly illustrating what we know to be going on in Afghanistan and other areas of the ME, and yet you instantly claim it's "propaganda".

My nephew just spent a year in Afghanistan as a mentor for law enforcement, teaching Ethics. I can tell you, the stories are much worse than what is presented here. I shall spare you.

But let's see.......the neighbor's visitor in Mexico told the friend of the aunt, who in turn told ......blah blah blah.

Vs. Time Magazine with pictures.

I get the feeling that at times you think more with your heart, and whether somethings fits your own personal beliefs, than what the realities of these situations might be.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

I was reading on the thread about Cartel Wars in our backyard, just one quarter of a mile across the U.S. border in Mexico.

I read your post on that thread. The essence of the message, was that someone visited someone in Texas, and they told somebody's aunt, or neighbor, or somebody, that people were on rooftops, slaughtering people, and that teenagers were knocking on doors in the wee-hours demanding $250.00 from poor people.

Your response (the gist) was the U.S. should get their butts over there and do something about this murderous travesties.

On this thread we have the cover of a reputable magazine, sadly illustrating what we know to be going on in Afghanistan and other areas of the ME, and yet you instantly claim it's "propaganda".

My nephew just spent a year in Afghanistan as a mentor for law enforcement, teaching Ethics. I can tell you, the stories are much worse than what is presented here. I shall spare you.

But let's see.......the neighbor's visitor in Mexico told the friend of the aunt, who in turn told ......blah blah blah.

Vs. Time Magazine with pictures.

I get the feeling that at times you think more with your heart, and whether somethings fits your own personal beliefs, than what the realities of these situations might be.

This is the thread. I said no such things. You are sorely mistaken.

I also did not call this Time piece propoganda. Please read my words again, and if you're still having issues with comprehension, I'll see if I can't clarify for you further.

On both counts, I believe you owe me an apology.

Sorry, LadySkadi. Had to address this.

[edit on 8/1/2010 by ~Lucidity]

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
My nephew just spent a year in Afghanistan as a mentor for law enforcement, teaching Ethics.

Ok, that explains why everything is going downhill in a rockettoboggan. Your nephew should have been working with teaching our law enforcement.