The Four Stages of a Communist Revolution (We

reply to post by pexx421


The right/left discussion is an important one. Terms are thrown around with no real consensus. It really does not matter where the spectrum is, but on what is really going on. What is the right? What is the left? What I see is an all powerful state, and the preferential treatment of many corporate institutions by that state. I do not understand exactly your point. Could you expound please.

reply to post by Misoir


You keep on saying ATS doesn't allow your viewpoint. You've made two posts on this very thread. If you wish to make a thread, do so. Other progressives make threads. It seems you take objection to anyone who disagrees with you. Your marxist opinion is being argued against, not blocked. Wait right there, I'll call the WHAAAAAAAMBULANCE.

Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by Common Good

 

Most American Political threads on ATS are now either; A. Libertarian, B. Conservative, or C. Anarchist.

I am not demanding that you agree with me on anything, I am just asking for ATS to be a place where we can ALL express our ideas without being attacked by half the other posting members just because we aren't libertarian or whatever the hell you are.

You have chased away almost everyone on the left or even the center for that matter because you are too extreme and won't let others express their ideals without being ganged up on and attacked for their opinion.

Maybe you should try not telling Progressives that they are Communists or Marxists just because they are Center-left and disagree with your beliefs. The fear mongering comes from ignorance and the more you spread fear the more ignorant you prove yourself as.

EXCUSE ME??? That is slander if I ever heard it.
I chased away everyone on the left?
I AM CENTER- Just because I am against this administration doesnt mean that I am a republican/anarchist/libertarian. take your damned blinders off.
It seems to me, YOU are the one who is attacking other peoples opinions.

WHEN did I EVER say that progressives were communists or marxists? NAME ONE TIME.

And another thing, Nobody especially me said that you couldnt express your opinion.

If you cant handle criticism from the other side, maybe you should not engage in political conversation?

And to tell you the truth, I really dont appreciate the personal attacks on me, I have never ganged up on you, and I have never called you anything.

I think that maybe it is you that needs to think about whats best for this country, instead of your own party. You can ignore everything all you want, but when someone calls you out on it, then you better be able to back up your facts.

- And thanks for adding me as a respected Foe


edit

[edit on 30-7-2010 by Common Good]

double post.

[edit on 30-7-2010 by Common Good]

Yes stephin. My point is that many point to the left as being for government control. That is only if you accept our current form of nonrepresentative government, and use it to institute controls over corporations. What the far left really seems to want is government regulation over mandatory social structures, but by a government of true representation of the people, thereby giving actual control to the people themselves, each with an equal stake, as opposed to the current form which only gives control to those with enough money to buy it. The right, on the other hand, offers total control to the corporations, which they use obviously and historically, to maintain their power, and control of the market, and to keep competition from coming up.

The reason this distinction is important is that the centrists and the right use libel and slander to malign the left so that your average person has no real understanding of what true leftists want. I dont consider myself a leftist or rightist, as i am liberal on freedoms and social issues, but conservative in foreign policy and war.

Our system is divided by two major groups, the democrats and the republicans. The democrats are often painted as socialists, but in fact the democrats cater to corporate power just as much as the repubs do, and in fact both groups are pretty closely aligned in major issues such as raising taxes, restricting freedoms, and waging wars in other countries to secure natural resources for corporations.

They are both in actuality right of center, and sadly this push has led to the "free market" which has shipped jobs overseas, and dropped wages of americans to compete with foreign workers from countries that have few laws regulating worker safety and lifestyle necessities, meaning that the average wages and purchasing power of most americans has sharply declined. This is painted as a good thing in their circles for two main reasons. 1) the corporations make much more profit because they have workers who they have to pay much less, and 2) they say we get cheaper goods, but the low price of goods is completely offset by the drop in earnings which are still forced to pay for the things in our society which ARE NOT dropping, such as rising costs of services, utilities, gas, transportation, housing, medical costs, and education.

Originally posted by astrogolf
reply to post by SeaWind

 

SeaWind.......Here you go.....www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 30-7-2010 by astrogolf]

Thank you, Astrogolf, for posting these links. It's amazing! I'm afraid all these questions about Obama's past will NOT be answered any time soon The MSM is so corrupt.

SeaWind

Originally posted by pexx421
Sorry, but it was only the centrists, which americans THINK is the far left, which thought obama was a good thing. Indeed, the far left considers Obama a rightwinger, and did everything they could to distance themselves and educate people, but nobody listened. Nobody still listens, so they paint obama as far left, when indeed, hes as corporatist as all of the right. Stop using misinformation to demonize the left. Obama is a product of the right, just as every president from the last 30 years has been, and just as our collapsing state of society is.

Pexx421, this is an interesting post. I know there are people on the Left who have abandoned Obama as "just another corporate shill." They're not entirely wrong, Obama is a corporate shill, but he's a corporate shill on an accelerated NWO agenda.

Let me try an clarify this. Both Communism and Fascism are socialistic totalitarian forms of government.

I believe that one of the reasons, the most powerful banks in the world funded both Communism and Fascism was to see which was the most effective form of totalitarian rule. Russia and Germany served as labs for their social experiments. That tens of millions of "small" people perished was of no concern to them. In fact it dovetailed nicely with their Depopulation agenda.

The Global Elite will use either form of totalitarian rule to further their control. It's all about control.

It just happens that Obama has a socialist background and many of his cronies share this same Marxist /socialist leaning.

In fact, I have real doubts that Obama is a committed ideologue of any kind, much less Red. But I think he has made deals with certain factions on the Left (the Unions, etc.) that shape his agenda. The Global Elite do not care as long as Obama sets up the framework for total government control. And of course, the banks & corporations control the government.

I believe Obama is a narcissistic sociopath (as most dictators are) who only cares about Obama. Think of Batista. He has every intention of ruling by fiat.

Some believe that these massive 2,500+ page bills (Stimulus, Healthcare and Financial "Reform") that most people have never read (including Congress) hide the framework for total control -- making Congress irrelevant.

Most Americans do NOT know that the Trilateral Commission's plan for "The North American Community" was implemented on Jan 01, 2010.

Obama is adding to the deficit to collapse the US Dollar & the US economy. Then the IMF will recommend a new currency to replace the collapsed Dollar: the Amero.

An open border with Mexico will help completely destroy the US.

The US may soon no longer exist as a sovereign nation.

I hope to God it's not too late to save the US from the NWO agenda.

SeaWind

reply to post by pexx421


What left and right are you talking about?

True leftists have all the tyrants.

Totalitarian scale

Left-Socialist, Fascists, Communist

Right-Libertarians, True Anarchists

Or are you talking about the NEW definitions created by the progressive/communist movement?

reply to post by astrogolf




Instead of the whaaambulance, I like this one.

Got cheese?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6a7fcae5e395.jpg[/atsimg]

Endisnighe, the left pushed every movement for humanitarian advance our nation has seen. All the things that make, scratch that, made us the land of the free and home of the brave. It was the left that pushed equality for all races, it was the left that pushed for women to vote. It was the left, largely supported by the Socialists, Communists, and African americans that formed the core of the civil rights movement. It was the left that largely pushed an end to the war in vietnam, where we massacred 4 million vietnamese because they wanted to declare independence, and we also killed 500000 laosians and 750000 cambodians just for fun. Until these groups were destroyed through Mccarthyism, Criminalization of drugs, and such because the government recognized the threat they presented to its total control. Which is why we have no real movement or groups for civil rights today, and why our freedoms, which were rapidly growing through the 20's to the 60's, have now began falling away, as we are all criminalized, painted as possible "homegrown terrorists", have our privacy stripped away, and considered suspect, guilty until proven innocent.

reply to post by pexx421


Could I get a copy of that history book? I want to read it.

What left are you talking about.

The left on the totalitarian scale? Socialism, communism and fascism.

I really want to know what this left thing is that is SO helpful.

I mean really people always say this lefty righty thing. I am not right wing fringe whatever that is.

I am for individual responsibility, I am for individual rights of Life, Liberty and Property. I am for a system where the government, cannot take your rights away.

I still need to figure out what this left and right thing is. I really do.

Forcing people into giving up their rights for the collective is called TYRANNY.

Since you are all about freedom, supposedly, you should maybe check out the Libertarian Party. They have what you are looking for.

Freedom in BOTH economic and social. Not like we have today where the government foments wars because it can. If we did not give them 50-75% of our labor, maybe they could not do wars of aggression, contingency, pre-emptive, or whatever you want to call it, we have been doing since WW2. Heck, if you think about it, the two world wars were created because of the progressive/communist movements.

I am sure you know that Wilson was a progressive. When did it all start going down hill? I would say Dec 23 1913 when we gave the banksters the keys to our country. Did not take them long to destroy the country. What was it, 16 years? Then we had 10 years of Depression where they instituted all kinds of expansion to the federal government power. Then Roosevelt in 1933 stole everyone's gold and gave them little slips of paper. It took til 1974 to completely wipe out the standard and move us to a fiat system.

From the year 74 on they systematically got everyone into the credit scheme. Currency as debt and finished the pillaging the system.

Here comes 2008, now we move into the final system of control. Now it is all or nothing for them. At this point in time there is absolutely NO WAY to ever pay this debt off. Not under the current system.

Open your eyes and read some more.

That is all.

Thanks for the patronizing condesension, it really gets your point across well. At any rate, i agree about our needing freedoms of life and liberty....Property is where i diverge. It is the accumulation and ownership of land, i believe, that deprives others of their ability to pursue liberty. How free are we, when we are not able to hunt or provide for ourselves because others have monopolized all the resources. Taxation is fine in a populace that has agreed to pool resources for social stabilizing bodies, but our taxation was forced upon us generations ago, been increased (on the lower and middle class) steadily over that time, and we have no options to opt out.

The native americans, not to idealize, but did not believe in ownership of the land....and they lived in relative harmony with their environs and surroundings. The problem with OUR system of land ownership, is that those that got in early, ran around planting the most flags before others could get in on it, are the ones largely still in control of that area and resource, and able to use that monopolization to force others to submit their labor in order to receive sustenance at the owners decided price.

At any rate, to humor you, the "left" as it were, generally refers to the group of people who believe that society moves forward as a whole, and that by bringing up the poorest, through social safety nets and social stabilizing bodies, that we bring up everyone. Of course, many misunderstand and think that the left just wants to take money from the rich and give it to the poor, or that the left wants big government. Thats a fallacy. We HAVE big government. The left wants small EFFECTIVE government.

The "right" as it were, are generally those who believe that personal responsibility will make you succeed, and they support corporate business growth in the idea that an unregulated market will regulate itself. This has been shown false throughout history, as when the "winners" get wealthy, they begin to use their power and money to destabilize the market in their favor, through monopolistic oligarchic controls. Further, they see people solely as "individuals" and believe in the myth of "rugged individualism" failing to see that as humans we cannot survive or grow alone. According to them, we live in a solely material world, and everything has a value that is set to a dollar amount.

And i would like to point out that your little chart is wrong, Fascism is the far right of the scale.

And if you want a copy of that history book, try a peoples history of the United States, by howard zinn. Also, most anything by Chomsky will show you in detail what our corporate interests often happen to be in countries that we go to war with or try to destabilize.

All of the communist insurgents should be rounded up and separated from society.

They are just too dangerous to have running amuck the way they have been.

reply to post by pexx421


So, here is a graph, please explain-

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3de1b1651dce.jpg[/atsimg]

Here are a couple of graphs for you to discern-

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7a2e9c9aa11a.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9bc8ac6206b5.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6c609ebf597d.jpg[/atsimg]

I hate the left right BANTER that the MSM and the other crud they teach now.

You can obfuscate all you want. What is it that YOU want from your government? Do you want them to ENFORCE fairness or equality? Do you want them to enforce absolute symmetry in the populace? That road leads to tyranny. Because force is always, let me reiterate that, ALWAYS used by the tyrants.

We need a system that enforces equality of FREEDOM. Period.

People always look to history for the link to the future. Are you looking at historical reference? You bring up the Native Americans that did not enforce land or private property ownership. BAHH. Yes, they were nomads, but they STILL enforced land RIGHTS or land domination. Quit your romantisizing the Native American culture. There was war, there was domination of territory. They were nomads though. Maybe you should read a little more fiction like the novels regarding an enforced return to the nomadic tribes of the Native Americans. I will try and find the novels I am speaking about.

Next, you mention force of the powerful. How did they become powerful? By only their ability to buy off the government? Hmmm, sounds familiar.

The rich have always used government as their enforcement arm.

I agree with you that SOME TYPE of system to be enplaced that prevents what you speak of. A system of minimal LAW. Like was set up in the beginning of the US. Before the war of 1812 to be exact. Court systems that delegated authority to the JURISTS or the PEOPLE in other words, not appointed officials, ESPECIALLY not officials paid for by the very people that hold the power. Ever hear about our government's tendency to implement private company paid inspectors?

I will wait for reply to this informational comment.

I guess i can answer what I want from a government. I want protection for the citizens from the predations of industry, and i want a social safety net to help people from falling below a point of no return. Thats the main bit. A truly representative government...government is a social contract, sadly the governing body is at freedom now to change the contract as it likes, however most of the populace is not included in that freedom to change the contract as well.

The Native americans believed in rights to use land right now, not possession which we do, which can be owned in perpetuity or traded, etc. And they had conflicts, but i would hardly call them wars....more like skirmishes. They would have raids, and often did not kill, just counted coup. Further, they didnt kill for oil, or gold, or other pretty stones. I dont need to romantacize, i have known many personally, participated with them in their sweat lodges, heard their oral histories. I dont say that they were peace loving smiley faced folks, just that they maintained more equilibrium with their environs. There was no pollution, no destruction of ecosystems, no pandemics when they were the sole occupants of the americas. They were true socialists, not believing in property, and their children where chastised when they learned the word "mine". Or so I have heard : ) Yes, some of this is due to the fact they had much smaller populations, but i begin to think that humans can only be sustainable in small groups. I notice that crime, hatreds, and disease flourish in large centralized populations, which was why europe was a breeding ground for plagues in the middle ages.