'Worst Bush-era policies' becoming the 'new normal': ACLU

reply to post by GovtFlu


Yeah. I agree. Someone else said, and I forget who,

"The Nazi party didnt disappear, it just changed venues."

Its kind of hard to avoid noticing the incredible parallels between what happened in Germany, and whats happening in the US.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


It has been repeated over and over again by critics of American Democracy, that American democracy is like a moving train.

If you change the driver of the moving train, it won't effect the train, it will still be going the way it is already going, very small choices are available.

That being said, what is the solution?

Ask Americans, I'm sure they are smart enough.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


True story bro!


I hope people realize that Obama is an extreme version of Bush.

He has not changed a thing. He's a kid that was quickly tempted by the forces that are. Very sad. He's basically just listening without question to his compatriots.

thats how the system works... the controlling party will push their agenda until the tipping point, then when the disenfranchised people have had enough, they will vote for the other party, thinking that anything's better than the last party, then the new party in will have much support in the beginning allowing them to push their agenda easily until the tipping point again... and so on... ever the while the greater agenda is pushed... the people have no clue that the party's are both working to the same goal, and fully expect to have a see saw of the party's in office, it doesn't matter to them, it works in their favor actually, because for moment the people feel that they have gotten the worst out and are very happy to have a new party in, a change if you will...


"The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge natural to party dissention, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an Individual: and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty."
George Washington

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by GovtFlu

 

Yeah. I agree. Someone else said, and I forget who,

"The Nazi party didnt disappear, it just changed venues."

Its kind of hard to avoid noticing the incredible parallels between what happened in Germany, and whats happening in the US.

On that note, in case you haven't seen these videos.. they might interest you.

I had to watch each a few times before digesting all that history, plus the religion info was totally foreign to me and a bit much, but interesting.

The end of America
endofamericamovie.com...

And a video set called "Roman Empire Rules Today".. all my links to that are broken but I found this link real quick. It's not the discussion of the modern 4th Reich tho.. imo the best part which I think is on pt 2.
Part 1
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

interesting report, unfortunately i have to agree, the same crap that bush pushed through that was in direct violation of our rights, served as a doorway to make more , and larger invasions into our lives...

Absolutely.

It almost felt like a test to see just how much they could get away with.
People were so blinded by the fear of terrorists coming to their home town that they paved the way for their rights to by stripped to nothing.

Obama picked up the reigns with a "Change" mantra but he won't be doing much of that as this is all really just one big puppet show.

We've already shown that we will be willing to let our liberties die if we feel we are threatened by some invisible force. They know now we won't kick up a fuss in the future.

Game on.

- Lee

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

True story bro!


I hope people realize that Obama is an extreme version of Bush.

He has not changed a thing. He's a kid that was quickly tempted by the forces that are. Very sad. He's basically just listening without question to his compatriots.

I agree that he hasn't changed much but to claim he is an extreme version of Bush is a bit of a stretch.

He;s mostly just picking up where he left off but Bush led us down this path.

Didn't you read the article?

- Lee

I have always said that Bush W. set a new low standard in politics and policy for this country. We will never go back to how things were, though they will certainly get worse from here.

The American people seemed to tolerate Bush's brazen policies so there should be no reason that administrations after his shouldn't do the same. I think it was an absolute win for those with the damning agenda, as it will only allow them to get there much faster.

For instance, before Bush, Presidents had to at least appear as if our best interests were at heart but now they don't even have to pretend. They can simply do what they want, when they want and how they want to do it, irregardless of what the American people say or think. This would have been unheard of 15 - 20 years ago. This is only but one instance too.

Bush set a new precedent and all following administrations are going to adhere to that precedent as to realize their goals at a much quicker pace that expected. I bet TPTB were scratching their heads, saying to themselves "I can't believe how stupid the American public really is, if we had only known early just how far we could push the envelope and get away with it". I am truly embarrassed for my country.

--airspoon

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Well Lucidity, the real problem is that they all have masters to serve. There is no bickering between democrats and republicans whatsoever. If there is, it is only in the minds of the public who actually follow the soap opera and believe the nonsense that we have all grown to know as the 2 party system. It is put there to give the public the illusion that they have a choice. We always end up selecting between pre-chosen candidates. Its a game. In the end, they are all owned by the same corporations, conglomerations, and oligopolies. Otherwise, why would there be a need to have lobbyists, PAC's, and other interest GROUPS that influence elections? Its been commonly known that they buy out both sides. So, if you think about it logically, this would only make sense because of the existence of corporatism. Its right in front of our faces and most people still don't see it. If there was a real difference between dems and repubs, Obama would have already eliminated the old policies as opposed to accelerated them.

So, your assessment is quite correct that something is definitely amiss, but, I think you are failing to see that it has been rigged from the jump. The bickering is only there to give us the illusion that there is a split, and the delusion of two elitist parties working against each other. Without the illusion of this visual polarization of the parties, people cannot be manipulated quite as easy, and the idea of the competition between ideologies produces zealots, which is the very thing needed to make the machine continue to pull the blinders over our eyes. By having two extreme opposites, you can manipulate the masses into falling into a compromise between a middle ground that they can cleverly craft and control, hence controlling the mind of your opponent. That is how our politicians see the American people. As pieces on a chessboard to be manipulated at will.

That's just my analysis. Take it or leave it.

Namaste and Love


[edit on 30-7-2010 by PsychoX42]

We have see our rights eroded.We have seen our constitution and the basic principles of our nation modified for "security". From the start of the cold war its just slowly gotten more blatant.
Like a rock dropped from a height its just gaining speed exponentially.

I won't even bother to argue with those who say its necessary or its not that bad.

The discussion of our march to fascism must focus on the why.
Why do politicians allow this to happen or are even actively pushing the agenda-from both parties?Obviously they are in the same camp with a few exceptions.

Taken to its Nth degree we are left with a world were public dissent is not tolerated. The ruling class rule with the legitimacy of elections but the options of the masses are limited by the approved choices.
Technological breakthroughs and advancements give government the ability to damn near know what you are thinking before you do.

But to what end?Keeping us safe from terrorists?The communist menace?
How about none of the above.

Our ancestors fought for centuries to gain some rights and liberties. From the Magna Carta to today our rights as human beings have been fought against government.They avoided the issue by having corporations become our new masters.
By exploiting our tax money they have created the need to fund different corporations and different agencies. We spend hundreds of billions on the military whose primary goal is to make the world safe for American business interests. Yet we cant find the money for education of our children.

But you all know the what.I wont go into a long winded vent on whats wrong. Just suffice it to say the elite not only want complete control and wealth. They wish to ensure that no threat to that hegemony will ever occur in the future by raisesing generations of brain dead consumer worker drones-just look at the modifications done to education and entertainement.

So how do we fight this eventual serfdom of ourselves and future generations?Because we need to do it now-there will be no chance in the future.
Force of arms wont do it-you will be labeled a domestic terrorist and the media will find you guilty.Not to mention the techo advantage the elite have.
Vote the bums out-may help. But we see that whatever the platform the politicos stand on it changes when the get into office. Maybe if we elect no lawyers and politicians into the system it will help but dont hold your breath.

The only way to stop the march towards serfdom is to stop paying our jailers to jail us.
Stop paying taxes.After that the elite will pay out of pocket to keep us where they want us.
Start legalization of drugs. End the war on drugs and end the 300-600 billion dollars worth of illicit revenue that can be used against us.
Take all of your cash out of your 401k. Suck wallstreet dry.Take the cash and dont put it in a bank. Buy something with it. But dont finance what you buy-pay cash for the farm or coffee shop or what have you.
Realize that the news services are in bed with the corporate owners of the media-and the corporate owners own the government.

When I first thought about what to say, I stumbled over the correct manner to present my perspective. I think our country has ultimately failed, and the government has overwhelmingly turned on its people. Regardless about who sits in the big chair, I think the 21st century version of a president walks along the communist and/or racists line.

Bush and Obama are one and the same, but their agendas are on opposite extremes of the spectrum. During the last two election cycles, our choices were pretty much extreme left and extreme right. Before the new millennium arrived, elected presidents would move to the center. Clinton, Bush Sr., and Reagan moved to the center. Twenty years of balance. Now, we have two factions fighting for complete power, and they are willing to divide us to obtain their goals.

I think it is time to get rid of both Democrats, Progressives, Moderates, Republicans, and Conservatives.

Even though the tea-party movement was in the correct direction, I don't think it promoted 'unity' in an affective manner. Someone in charge of the movement should have held summits, (in four sections of the country), which focused on driving U. S. citizens together. It really needed to be focused on bringing people across all cultures together, so their voice can be heard as one cohesive entity. Not as a political party, but more like the 'movement' it should have been. I think they really could have gotten more people aware of the 'actual' issues we face, and how we can tackle these elements as a nation. We could have definitely shown Washington that the citizens are in charge, and they cannot get away with tarnishing our freedoms.

Since the tea-party has been disbanded, I blame the media and the movement for not taking advantage of such an opportunity. I think the movement could have made a major difference, but it was ultimately killed off by participant corruption, media bias, and government arrogance.

As we look back at the years 2009 and 2010, the tea party movement will look like a burp on the screen. However, for one moment in modern history, people actually came together to make a difference.

Obama, Community Organizers, Corporations, Democrats and Republicans are fighting really hard to take our freedoms away, and I really do not think they will stop until someone submits. It is rather sad really.

Does anyone know of a way, which the average citizen can impeach a president?


[edit on 30-7-2010 by Section31]

Originally posted by Frogs
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

Yeah - the problem is, what's the solution?

Clearly "Vote 'em out!!" has been tried. It seems to just replace the current with more of the same regardless of which brand they wear.

Try: www.freestateproject.org...

If I'm not mistaken it was a free-stater who recently introduced a knife freedom act into state legislation which allowed full legalization of knives. It passed. So there is one more real freedom as a result of a pro-liberty project. Who else can say that? There are about 300 state legislators and at leastr 10 of them are Free State Project members.

What's impressive about that is most Free-State people I've met are not even involved much at all in politics. Once the counter tops 1,000 movers (meaning 1,000 people have moved to New Hampshire) I fully expect the state government to stop growing. Once 2,000 people have moved to New Hampshire I expect state government there to start rolling back much more quickly than it has ever rolled forward (which was never very quickly since New Hampshire is a very pro liberty kind of state).

Edit: I'm also very optimistic about Seasteading, though its more of a down the road relatively permanent solution whereas the FSP is more of a right now solution.

[edit on 30-7-2010 by truthquest]

Originally posted by Section31
Bush and Obama are one and the same, but their agendas are on opposite extremes of the spectrum. During the last two election cycles, our choices were pretty much extreme left and extreme right. Before the new millennium arrived, elected presidents would move to the center. Clinton, Bush Sr., and Reagan moved to the center. Twenty years of balance. Now, we have two factions fighting for complete power, and they are willing to divide us to obtain their goals.

To a point you're right. But not completely. Clinton, Bush Sr., and Reagan were all hardcore statists who believe the answer to all problems is more and bigger government. Contrary to the pretend games Reagan played about "small government" he increased the size of government by about 60% during his term and ended his term with a higher national debt load.

I challenge anyone who believes Clinton improved our countries finances to look at this chart:
www.treasurydirect.gov...
The challenge is to point to which year Clinton reduced our national debt. The last time our national debt went down even a little was 1957. By my reckoning that makes every president since then a complete embarrassment, a total loser, and above all a complete failure of a human being.

reply to post by oozyism


That's a very interesting way to put it I hadn't heard before. I think we have a few ideas on how to change it....probably more than a few I have faith that soon we will have the momentum we need to do get the train back on the rails.

[edit on 7/30/2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by PsychoX42

I take it and thank you.

I don't fail to see at all. I was raised on government and geopolitical conspiracy theory. Other kids got bedtime stories about Cinderella...I got MKULTRA and the Gulf of Tonkin, And both my dad and I watched a lot of the theories turn out to be true. There really is a government behind the government. We don't see that unless we look VERY hard. But if you do look and watch for a long time, you see how ideas and people align and why some of the things that are happening are happening. It's subtle sometimes, but it's there. The fortunate part for us is the even "the masters" don't always agree among themselves, and we can use this to our advantage too if we're careful in who and what we support.

Geopolitics, from what I've seen and read and heard, means forming alliances that are fluid and temporary to get what you want accomplished in the moment. That's how they play the game, and that's how we need to play it too. Sometimes supporting someone you don't entirely "believe in" or "trust" is necessary to either get out of a ditch or pave the way for the next step. When the choice is two evils, the lesser evil is still better. Recognizing which is the lesser evil is hard though.

reply to post by lee anoma


The report does seem to point out that there have been some "reversals" and some improvements, as I mentioned earlier about transparency. Anyone see any others? It can't be all BAD, people! lol

reply to post by ~Lucidity
Thanks for the OP.

If this isn't enough to show the sheeple that the Democrat/Republican division is just a sham to keep us all looking somewhere other than where we need to........

I don't know what will ever show them!

STAR AND FLAG!!!!!!

Remember all the shouts against the Patriot Act?

It is all still there for use by TPTB!

Where are the shouts from the Congresspeople that put on a 'show' some years ago?

reply to post by oozyism



I agree with what you say, except your use of the term 'democracy'.

US is no longer a democracy. There is no choice any more about anything significant . Right/Left - makes no difference. These are just labels which the Zionist controllers put on respective candidates who they have selected. The labels have no significance whatsover.

The reality is that the only 'choice' voters have is to vote between a Zionist selected pupet and a Zionist selected puppet.

What to do about it? IMO it isn't going to happen via the electoral process. That is now completely stitched up.

Millions of people have to find ways of saying 'NO' if anything is to change.

Somebody is playing us all for fools.

And you know what? As a collective group, we are.