A religion an Atheist can subscribe to...

Originally posted by damastadamind
I was basically an atheist aboput two years ago. then I read What the buddha taught by Walpola Rāhula, and it basically blew my mind because it identified to they was i had always thought everything was rational and it did not ask me to beleive anything that did not make sense to me. My brain just clicked and suddenly there was many logical answers to questions I had been asking my whole life.

Well, Buddhism is an atheistic philosophy, in that it doesn't specifically say there's a god of any kind. So you would still technically be an atheist. You may or may not know that the next step is to give up Buddhism, also.

Just be a good person. Don't worry so much about the details.

reply to post by Annee

REligion

–noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6.
something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7.
religions, Archaic . religious rites.
8.
Archaic . strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
—Idiom
9.
get religion, Informal .
a.
to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b.
to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.


Again , please do not make crazy allegations and cite half-truths to prove an invalid point. THX!

reply to post by IamBoon


I don't need your lecture.

As with many raised in a god belief and felt it didn't add up - - I spent many years searching.

Do you honestly believe I skipped Buddhism in that search.

You believe it is a religion - - others don't. Convince them - - I don't care.

reply to post by Annee


Typical, it is amazing how many people on this site are unwilling to concede to valid points about seemingly everything. And when there is no escape they run or resort to fallacious attacks .


By definition of religion , Buddhism is a religion. If you think not then you do not wish to understand what religion is or what it constitutes to be labeled as a religion.

Deny ignorance wha? lmao

Religion is a life philosophy and Buddhism IS a religion. I do not know where you get off saying it isn't.

It's the movement-atheist party line.

Of course, it would be news to many Buddhists that they don't have any religion. Especially Buddhist monks and nuns. Like the monks and nuns who live in monasteries and officiate at dedicated places of worship.

Tough tucker for them, huh? You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs. The Party has decreed that from now on, there is to be no more non-theist religion. Shamans, ancestor worshippers... all into the memory hole.

It's got something to do with atheists not wanting to be called a religion. It would be convenient, then, if theirs wasn't the only religious opinion that they claimed wasn't a religion.

but you do not even need to believe any of it to achieve it's goal.

If that's all you're looking for, there are scads of religions that are non-credal. The Unitarian Universalist Association, to name one, actually invites atheists to join.

and, um

It is neither a religion in the sense in which that word is commonly understood, for it is not "a system of faith and worship owing any allegiance to a supernatural being."

It is not at all unusual for some members of a religion to deny that they are a religion for recruiting, debate and promotional purposes. The Freemasons are waffly about that point, too, for example.

At least with Buddhists, it is not a lie, either. You really can be a "Catholic Buddhist."

But what that means is that you practice two compatible religions, not one religion and something else that also has full-time clergy, canonical scripture, dedcated places of worship, a theory of the afterlife, rituals to influence what happens to you in the afterlife, ...

And, of course, why do some atheists themselves deny belonging a religion, except for recruiting, debate and promotion?

reply to post by eight bits


so, what's the deal? buddhism is a religion, but atheists conspire for it not to be so, so they can follow it and still be able to say they're not following a religion? atheist secretly want to be religious?

also, atheism is not a religion. it is an observance of a lack of evidence for deities. that is all. nothing else.

reply to post by eight bits


I am an atheist and I already made a thread about what it means to be one. It is a belief, no doubt , as it is a stance on an indeterminable subject . If it was not a belief then we wouldn't have trouble proving our stance now would we?


I see it more as a belief like "I am right -wing." or "I am a vegetarian." kind of thing.

There are no tenets other than the required non-belief, there are no practices /rituals, no way of life , no creed , no prayers , etc. So it is not a religion.

When you are an atheist it really does not dictate your actions or everyday choices outside of the main view that god doesn't exist in any form as prescribed by modern day theories.

Originally posted by IamBoon
reply to post by Annee

 

Typical, it is amazing how many people on this site are unwilling to concede to valid points about seemingly everything. And when there is no escape they run or resort to fallacious attacks .

One Man's Valid Point . . . . . well we know how that goes.

I first addressed the thread/subject. YOU then addressed me directly - not in a very loving way - I might add.

I posted a short paragraph from "Buddhism in a Nutshell" - stating Buddhism is not a religion. Once again addressing the thread/subject.

YOU then (again) addressed me directly.

If you don't like what Buddhism in a Nutshell says on their website - - about Buddhism being a religion - - - take it up with them.

Maybe I should give the definition of fallacious attacks now.

I am sorry I like to correct things so as to not cause confusion.

I am sorry it seemed like an attack I was just addressing the fact it is a religion and wanted to respond to you as to clear up any misunderstanding.

I didn't know correcting invalid statements was considered uncouth!


My apologies and I hope you have a better day than I!

Originally posted by Hadrian
reply to post by eight bits

 

so, what's the deal? buddhism is a religion, but atheists conspire for it not to be so, so they can follow it and still be able to say they're not following a religion? atheist secretly want to be religious?

Are you thinking all atheists feel this way? Remember, the only thing one atheist has in common with all other atheists is a disbelief in a deity. Don't assume that because one atheist follows Buddhism that they all do.

I would classify Buddhism as a religion AND a philosophy. It is very unlike any conventional religion, but many practitioners share common beliefs and they even have temples where they meet and perform rituals (paying reverence to Buddha, praying, meditation, etc.) And many practice Buddhism in a religious manner. Therefore I would class it as a religion, because a deity isn't necessary to have a set of beliefs in common with other people.

It all depends on what you mean by the word "religion"

If, by religion, is meant "a teaching which takes a view of life that is more than superficial, a teaching which looks into life and not merely at it, a teaching which furnishes men with a guide to conduct that is in accord with this its in-look, a teaching which enables those who give it heed to face life with fortitude and death with serenity,"[6] or a system to get rid of the ills of life, then it is certainly a religion of religions.

Buddhism in a Nutshell

It's just words.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Hadrian
reply to post by eight bits

 

...It all depends on what you mean ...

oh dear, dear ben-her:

to be misunderstood by, of all people, you, is utterly heartbreaking.

i was asking the poster those questions (in a manufactured, stupefied shock). i.e., what is your deal? do you think buddhism is a religion, but atheists conspire for it not to be so, so they can follow it and still be able to say they're not following a religion? [do you think] atheist secretly want to be religious?

i am still the militant, no-holds-barred atheist you undoubtedly love and respect with the force of 10,000 category 5s.

[edit on Jul 29, 2010 by Hadrian]

So sorry... If it helps any, I made no negative judgment toward you even though I misunderstood you. I should have read deeper. Please forgive me.

Originally posted by Hadrian
i am still the militant, no-holds-barred atheist you undoubtedly love and respect with the force of 10,000 category 5s.

Indeed.

[edit on 7/29/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]

What type of Buddhism? There are many kinds.

Here are some spiritual facts, correct me where I'm wrong. And atheists please bear with me .

All major branches of Buddhism involve deities, many of them coming from Hindu religion. And, of course, like all other religions, a Buddhist believes in God.... otherwise he is not a Buddhist. A Buddhist even worships God, he prays too, with help of Gautama Buddha, an enlightened one who has realized God. Buddha was considered an avatar (a incarnation of God) by Hindu and other religions existing at that time. He did not create Buddhism, he was teaching universal spiritual path which at that time did not perfectly correlate with Hinduism, thus his followers became Buddhists.

But why does Buddhism not mention God? Gautama Buddha did not mention God in his original teachings, simply because he was only familiar with Hindu religion. This was therefore part of his (and thus our) destiny, he was an awakener with purpose to elevate your spirit with the ultimate goal of reaching Nirvana. Hindus called this Moksha (a union with the supreme being, which is another word for... God). Therefore, Nirvana is simply put, God. That said, Buddhism is all but atheistic.

In Buddhism, and in many other major religions, it matters not whether one believes in God or not. Why would a creator of all things living and dead require you to "believe" in him? Only reason you don't believe in him is because he wants it so. How can you defy a supreme master of all? What kind of God would want you to defend his name? He has infinite number of names, no one can call God this or that, everything you do, everything you say is God. When you debate God, he wants you to debate that, just like when you are being foolish he wants you to be. What is the point then, of all this suffering and foolishness? The point is for you to love, understand and achieve Nirvana. This is what Buddhism helps you, to achieve Nirvana, realize God, gain enlightenment, attain Buddahood, become qutub, conquest suffering, stop the reincarnation - through forbearance, discipline and suffering itself - for without suffering, there is no bliss. Just like there is no day if there's no night.

But that doesn't just happen, you need a great, unbearable, insufferable calling within your heart to really embark on a one-way journey towards Nirvana. Just like Gautama Buddha did. However, Buddha is considered an ancient-one, and he has such compassion that he chooses to incarnate on earth every couple of thousand years as Maitreya to awaken our souls.

You can't know if there is such thing or anything like God, dwelling on that subject is pointless until you experience God yourself. Many of us act like irresponsible children, thinking everything we have is granted, until the unbearable suffering comes. Most of us only then, try spiritual self-realization, or God.

[edit on 29/7/2010 by SassyCat]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Are you thinking all atheists feel this way?

Remember, the only thing one atheist has in common with all other atheists is a disbelief in a deity.

Don't assume that because one atheist follows Buddhism that they all do.

Need to make this statement. Just because someone currently chooses Atheism (non-belief in a deity) - - does not necessarily mean they have stopped searching for something more. (some Atheists of course have drawn the line - which is OK too).

There is nothing wrong with knowledge - any and all knowledge (which includes various belief systems). Does not mean you are going to accept it into your own life and consciousness. But you might.

We are human. We have experiences that could affect how we think about our existence and change our viewpoints - - - even our belief or non-belief.

I've always found the "phenomenon" when people have children - - they return to the church - - fascinating. Often the parents don't return - - but want to make sure their children have a god upbringing. Its very odd to me.

Or someone can have what they consider a "spiritual" experience - - believing then that they have taken the wrong road against god.

Buddhism is certainly something I can see a "still searching" Atheist being interested in. Whether they themselves consider it a religion/philosophy or both.

I personally don't like rituals or structure of any kind. Although I do believe positive thought creates positive energy - - - and that energy thought connects to other energy thought. Like ripples in the same pond. One affects the other.

reply to post by IamBoon



You think Buddhism is without a doubt a religion, that's fine... Many people don't.... they see it as a philosophy.
I'm not here to convince you or mock you (as you seem to be doing) for what you think a religion is or isn't.

By definition.... many things that are not religions, could also be classed as religions.

As BH said, It's both a religion AND a philosophy.... and I'd go further and say that It's also neither.


But whatever.... I'm not a Buddhist and have no desire to convince or argue with you one way or another.

I like the Eastern Philosophies and find them very simple and very insightful.
I think the Tao Te Ching is one of the most amazing and beautiful things I've ever read.... truly.

Someone also said about energy and spirituality and enlightenment and so on.. and how if you're an atheist, you can't understand these things and don't "Get" them..... well that's bollocks, truly it is.

Atheism is exactly that.... a non-belief in a deity.... a god or gods.

Anything else is not related to atheism.... be it science, energy, universal conciousness, the inner self and the ego.... and a million other things.

reply to post by SassyCat


www.religionfacts.com...

Buddhism , by its founder , has no god or deity.
Many Buddhists believe that Devas are the source behind many of our religions . Devas are basically enlightened beings or being of a higher order. Each being can become a Deva.

en.wikipedia.org...
Devas vs. gods

Although the word deva is generally translated "god" (or, very occasionally, "angel") in English, Buddhist devas differ from the "gods" and "angels" of other religions past and present in many important ways.

* Buddhist devas are not immortal. They live for very long but finite periods of time, ranging from thousands to (at least) billions of years. When they pass away, they are reborn as some other sort of being, perhaps a different type of deva, perhaps a human or something beyond comprehension.

* Buddhist devas do not create or shape the world. They come into existence based upon their past karmas and they are as much subject to the natural laws of cause and effect as any other being in the universe. They also have no role in the periodic dissolutions of worlds.

* Buddhist devas are not incarnations of a few archetypal deities or manifestations of an all-embracing pantheistic One. Nor are they merely symbols. They are considered to be, like humans, distinct individuals with their own personalities and paths in life.

* Buddhist devas are not omniscient. Their knowledge is inferior to that of a fully enlightened Buddha, and they especially lack awareness of beings in worlds higher than their own.

* Buddhist devas are not omnipotent. Their powers tend to be limited to their own worlds, and they rarely intervene in human affairs. When they do, it is generally by way of quiet advice rather than by physical intervention.

* Buddhist devas are not morally perfect. The devas of the worlds of the Rūpadhātu do lack human passions and desires, but some of them are capable of ignorance, arrogance and pride. The devas of the lower worlds of the Kāmadhātu experience the same kind of passions that humans do, including (in the lowest of these worlds), lust, jealousy, and anger. It is, indeed, their imperfections in the mental and moral realms that cause them to be reborn in these worlds.

* Buddhist devas are not to be taken as a Buddhist refuge. While some individuals among the devas may be beings of great moral authority and prestige and thus deserving of a high degree of respect, no deva can show the way of escape from saṃsāra or control one's rebirth. The highest honors are reserved to the Three Jewels of Buddha, Dharma, and Saṅgha.

Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by IamBoon

 

You think Buddhism is without a doubt a religion, that's fine... Many people don't.... they see it as a philosophy.
I'm not here to convince you or mock you (as you seem to be doing) for what you think a religion is or isn't.

By definition.... many things that are not religions, could also be classed as religions.

As BH said, It's both a religion AND a philosophy.... and I'd go further and say that It's also neither.


But whatever.... I'm not a Buddhist and have no desire to convince or argue with you one way or another.

I like the Eastern Philosophies and find them very simple and very insightful.
I think the Tao Te Ching is one of the most amazing and beautiful things I've ever read.... truly.

Someone also said about energy and spirituality and enlightenment and so on.. and how if you're an atheist, you can't understand these things and don't "Get" them..... well that's bollocks, truly it is.

Atheism is exactly that.... a non-belief in a deity.... a god or gods.

Anything else is not related to atheism.... be it science, energy, universal conciousness, the inner self and the ego.... and a million other things.

I respect an Opinion about thinking it is a religion , not a statement.

To say it is neither a philosophy or religion is beyond my feeble mind. Enlighten us all if you will kind sir.

I agree, Atheists do get demonized but it is by their own hand most of the time.

Originally posted by IamBoon


To say it is neither a philosophy or religion is beyond my feeble mind. Enlighten us all if you will kind sir.

Neither I, nor nobody else can enlighten you.
And I know your post was more a figure of speech and mocking sarcasm, but I thought I'd address it anyway.

I agree, Atheists do get demonized but it is by their own hand most of the time.

Actually It's mainly by insecure Christians who enjoy attacking others while proclaiming that they believe in God and are inherently good people.
Although as far as I'm aware, actions speak louder than words.

reply to post by IamBoon

I know what are Devas but many are still worshipped as deities. Devas are something like Saints in Christianity.

For example, you have Guan Yin which is widely worshipped and a very important Dharmapala (which is a deity) Palden Lhamo.

Buddhism itself is not limited to denying existence of deities. I don't know how much Buddha taught about them though. I mean this matter simply being a subject of a debate itself says enough. In Christianity and Islam, there's pretty much no debate there.

To prove my point further, any good Buddhist will tell you that there is no wrong in any other religion. All are essentially the same, it is only matter of preference. Christians do worship idols, they build temples, they lend money, trade and gamble, often all at the same time. Buddhists do worship deities, they do pray/purify in act of prostration and chanting, just like Christians ask Lord for forgiveness of their sins. There are no absolute set of rules, you can go to annals of any religion but it only slows down your own enlightenment which isn't controlled by some static set of laws written in a book. The Buddhism can be described as the most tolerating religion of all so far.

Most people don't follow the base, Ahimsa Paramo Dharma:
Not to kill is the greatest of all religions.
Let alone anything more "complex" .

reply to post by SassyCat


I agree with you , but I as an atheist also see no harm from religion as long as it contains nothing that cause immediate or imminent harm.

To be atheist is not to crusade against other religions and label them all evil. Religion does a lot of good also and only the blind fail to see that.