Eratosthenes of Cyrene

Originally posted by Hanslune
One of the great myths of the alternative world is that great masses of 'secret' or 'hidden' knowledge was lost with the series of destructive incidents that effected the libraries now collectively known as the 'Library of Alexandria'.

Now secret in library

The libraries (there were actually three which became known as the Great Library) suffered numerous fires etc but in general was open for 3-4 centuries. With what we can determine was 'open' access to Greek and later Roman scholars. Comments by these authors were known and commented on by other authors.

Strangely nothing too weird or strange was noted and the Roman's in particular were into oddities as noted in many Roman books about monsters and the like.

Pliny's natural history had 327 Greek authors as sources he also sited the Bibliotheca historica by Diodorus Siculus a 40 volume work of the worlds history which is thought to have had up to 4,000 cites from various Greek and other works.

No great secrets were displayed and interestingly enough he had no knowledge of Sumer.

Would the Greeks and Roman's have noted aliens, lost continents or even the then existing 'new world'? Pliny did mention the Seres...whom we now call the Chinese and had a great deal to say about the Indians. He of course mentioned Thule and Hyperborea too.

So....unless the Greek and Roman writers of the day were a tad dense they didn't seem to to be able to get to the 'really good' stuff! LOL

However they did do a fair job of describing the world as they saw it.

The only problem with all of this is that the "real" secrets were never in the library to begin with, in all likelyhood. The "real" secrets were held by the priests of the Mysteries.

Regardless, lots of good things were lost in that library. Not lost forever, just long enough to hold mankind back. Just like that History Channel show talking about how if the guy who discovered steam power could have had a pow wow with the guy who discovered piston concepts, we could have had the steam engine before Alexandria fell.

It was the lack of communication, and the lack of ability to adequately scour its vast archives, that was the real travesty. And before any of this could happen, it was gone.

Howdy BFFT

The only problem with all of this is that the "real" secrets were never in the library to begin with, in all likelyhood. The "real" secrets were held by the priests of the Mysteries.

Hans: Since you seem to know what were these 'secrets'? Laugh

Regardless, lots of good things were lost in that library. Not lost forever, just long enough to hold mankind back. Just like that History Channel show talking about how if the guy who discovered steam power could have had a pow wow with the guy who discovered piston concepts, we could have had the steam engine before Alexandria fell.

Hans: Lists of what was in the Library were commented on and have survived a great deal of poetry was lost. The materials in the library were open to reading for hundreds of years and the interestingly the Chinese did fine without the information.

It was the lack of communication, and the lack of ability to adequately scour its vast archives, that was the real travesty. And before any of this could happen, it was gone.

Hans: You do realize the Library was open for centuries, yes? At its largest the scrolls would have equalled around twenty five thousand books. Large but not that large plus they were organized by type and author.

The chance for steam power was limited because the lack of metallurgy that could contain high pressure, lack of the ability for precision machinery, lack of tooling and the most daunting a lack of need for steam power. Manpower, water and animal power was sufficient for what the Classical world needed. The idea of steam was just to early to be practical. You may wish to look at how long and how hard it was to accomplish in Europe and they had a specific need - to draw water out of deep mines.

i decided to check back in on my post.

never really thought the library would have been the talking point.

o well

hope somebody learned something about Eratosthenes...

The only problem with all of this is that the "real" secrets were never in the library to begin with, in all likelyhood. The "real" secrets were held by the priests of the Mysteries.

Of course, whenever there's talk of "secrets", "real secrets", "true history"...(add anything that is not supported by any kind of evidence here) it is not where we may find it. Convenient, huh?

I will, once more, borrow Harte's motto and I hope I am forgiven since I gave credit where credit is due

"Absence of evidence is not only evidence of absence, it is the ONLY evidence of absence!"

Any clues about those alleged secrets?

Originally posted by Maegnas

The only problem with all of this is that the "real" secrets were never in the library to begin with, in all likelyhood. The "real" secrets were held by the priests of the Mysteries.

Of course, whenever there's talk of "secrets", "real secrets", "true history"...(add anything that is not supported by any kind of evidence here) it is not where we may find it. Convenient, huh?

I will, once more, borrow Harte's motto and I hope I am forgiven since I gave credit where credit is due

"Absence of evidence is not only evidence of absence, it is the ONLY evidence of absence!"

Any clues about those alleged secrets?

You can find it. I am no mason or anything remotely like that. Just very curious, and a prodigious reader.

Start with Manly P Hall's "The Secret Teachings Of All Ages". I think when you are done reading that, you will find two things:

1. the "secrets", or at least what they were (if not the answer to the question they pose)

2. it really wasn't worth keeping secret, unless you take into account the stories of the Fifth Element and the Philosophers Stone.

It is all a "Velvet Rope". For some reason they wanted to keep it secret. I would say that it is because it relates to what we call "science", for the most part.

And, as the US Military spending shows, science knformation = power.

Originally posted by monguzi
i decided to check back in on my post.

never really thought the library would have been the talking point.

o well

hope somebody learned something about Eratosthenes...

Well...the OP is a copy and paste from Wiki. What is there to really learn?

Some may not have been familiar with him. I was (as i love the Greek philosophers, and hold the original "philosopher" in the highest regard).

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by monguzi
i decided to check back in on my post.

never really thought the library would have been the talking point.

o well

hope somebody learned something about Eratosthenes...

Well...the OP is a copy and paste from Wiki. What is there to really learn?

Some may not have been familiar with him. I was (as i love the Greek philosophers, and hold the original "philosopher" in the highest regard).

well, there would be a lot to learn if somebody wasn't as smart as you. for instance, how he proved the world to be round. how he did it. what time he did it in. you know, the stuff i copied and pasted from wikipedia.

reply to post by monguzi


I am sorry. I see you are new, and i believe you missed my point. I apologize if i seemed obtuse.

It is customary when authoring a thread to provide some personal insight. Now, i can see you did do some of that, as the work in the OP is not an outright copy and paste. However, the copy and paste part needs to have the "external" tags so that people know it isn't your words.

Further, i might recommend pulling in some other sources and possibly some anecdotes about the man, not just his legacy. Make the story come to life, and provide more than the most basic overview a la Wiki. For example, his exploits as an athlete...something i am unaware of (as i focus on the philosophical aspect of the period). A story about that would be unusual.

That is all i meant. Wiki is a great resource, but usually only when validating other sources.

[edit on 29-7-2010 by bigfatfurrytexan]

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by monguzi

 

I am sorry. I see you are new, and i believe you missed my point. I apologize if i seemed obtuse.

It is customary when authoring a thread to provide some personal insight. Now, i can see you did do some of that, as the work in the OP is not an outright copy and paste. However, the copy and paste part needs to have the "external" tags so that people know it isn't your words.

Further, i might recommend pulling in some other sources and possibly some anecdotes about the man, not just his legacy. Make the story come to life, and provide more than the most basic overview a la Wiki. For example, his exploits as an athlete...something i am unaware of (as i focus on the philosophical aspect of the period). A story about that would be unusual.

That is all i meant.

Wiki is a great resource, but usually only when validating other sources.

[edit on 29-7-2010 by bigfatfurrytexan]

what does how long i have been on this site have to do with anything? unless of course this is your method for discriminating against users.

second, did you see a section of this thread where i ask for advice? no? then what makes you think i want it?

third, there was no mis-understanding, i know exactly what you meant, and the arrogant tone you took, as if offering some advice to someone who isn't on the same level as you. but this isn't a life lesson, and you are not my father.

now, i would offer some advice to you, but thats not really my style.

i wish you the best

sincerely,
monguzi

Originally posted by monguzi

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by monguzi

 

I am sorry. I see you are new, and i believe you missed my point. I apologize if i seemed obtuse.

It is customary when authoring a thread to provide some personal insight. Now, i can see you did do some of that, as the work in the OP is not an outright copy and paste. However, the copy and paste part needs to have the "external" tags so that people know it isn't your words.

Further, i might recommend pulling in some other sources and possibly some anecdotes about the man, not just his legacy. Make the story come to life, and provide more than the most basic overview a la Wiki. For example, his exploits as an athlete...something i am unaware of (as i focus on the philosophical aspect of the period). A story about that would be unusual.

That is all i meant.

Wiki is a great resource, but usually only when validating other sources.

[edit on 29-7-2010 by bigfatfurrytexan]

what does how long i have been on this site have to do with anything? unless of course this is your method for discriminating against users.

second, did you see a section of this thread where i ask for advice? no? then what makes you think i want it?

third, there was no mis-understanding, i know exactly what you meant, and the arrogant tone you took, as if offering some advice to someone who isn't on the same level as you. but this isn't a life lesson, and you are not my father.

now, i would offer some advice to you, but thats not really my style.

i wish you the best

sincerely,
monguzi

Listen bro, all tact and pomp aside, i was just pointing out that what you posted falls far below the standards of this site. YOu need to become acquainted with basic rules, such as your copyright issues by not putting the copy and paste into EX tags.

I could just report the offense to a moderator. But i was trying to throw you a bone.

I point out your newness to point out that you may not be acclimated to our style on this site. I have been around awhile....i am very well acquainted with it (and have a pretty good reputation on the whole because of the way I interact).

You initial mistake is something that can be chalked up to a freshman folly. Just read the stickied thread at the top of each forum before posting so you know how to do it within the site rules. Or don't.

I will just report your OP and hope the Mods don't delete it (which they have been prone to do lately). Since you cannot act civil, i see no reason to try to help you.

Originally posted by monguzi
you are absolutely right Harte!

and maybe it is just me, but i always found how smart these guys were shocking... If only they hadn't burned the library.

My heart aches whenever I think of all the incredible thoughts, ideas, and discoveries that were lost.

Start with Manly P Hall's "The Secret Teachings Of All Ages". I think when you are done reading that, you will find two things:

I think I have better use for my money and time, thanks!

Does this Manly P Hall hold any credentials or is he just "thinking outside the box"?

Originally posted by Maegnas

Start with Manly P Hall's "The Secret Teachings Of All Ages". I think when you are done reading that, you will find two things:

I think I have better use for my money and time, thanks!

Does this Manly P Hall hold any credentials or is he just "thinking outside the box"?

If you would render an opinion on who he is, or the quality of his work, without even knowing anything about him, it might be seen as the epitome of "ignorance".

But that is for you to decide for yourself. I can only make a polite recommendation.

But, for what it is worth, his work is considered the seminal work on Esoteric teachings, and finds its place in the libraries of just about every Masonic Lodge in North America.

Just so you know, we are here for civil discourse. Contemptuous responses will be ignored going forward.

Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by Byrd
They no longer study the classics in school, and I think it's a bit of a loss. I remember reading Edith Hamilton's book on the Romans and bugging the librarians till they came up with a copy of her book on the Greeks. Amazing woman: en.wikipedia.org...

Two books that greatly influenced my interest in Middle Eastern archaeology!

When I was a kid I read her "Mythology" book but I wasn't interested in the Norse myths and skipped that part.

I really should go back over the entire book I suppose.

Anyway, I really loved the Greek myths she wrote about.

Probably I should credit Ray Harryhausen for sparking my interest in the first place!

Harte

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I didn't render an opinion, I asked a question.

But, for what it is worth, his work is considered the seminal work on Esoteric teachings, and finds its place in the libraries of just about every Masonic Lodge in North America.

Does this give it academic credentials or not?

Just so you know, we are here for civil discourse. Contemptuous responses will be ignored going forward.

That was evident enough a few posts above

reply to post by Maegnas


"Academic credentials" is so vague.

Look, you are here on ATS for one of two reason: either you have an interest that you are trying to sate, or you are wreaking havoc. If i assume that the former is true, and not the latter, then i would ask you why you don't just take the information i provided you and research it on your own?

Read it, or not. It is a well known and fairly highly acclaimed book. Take that for what its worth. If you are really interested enough to want an answer, try Google. It will tell you so much more than I could, and likely be less biased.

Academic credentials is not vague at all. A work either has them or it doesn't. Under which category this work falls?

the book in question I read long ago while I was interested in Crowley and the like.

That book

If you like 'mystical' stuff it's okay. A lot of the information that is in it is flawed or just fantasy. The few times he comes to the real world:

The Great Pyramid was built of limestone and granite throughout, the two kinds of rock being combined in a peculiar and significant manner. The stones were trued with the utmost precision, and the cement used was of such remarkable quality that it is now practically as hard as the stone itself. The limestone blocks were sawed with bronze saws, the teeth of which were diamonds or other jewels. The chips from the stones were piled against the north side of the plateau on which the structure stands, where they form an additional buttress to aid in supporting the weight of the structure.

Here he's made a significant number of errors - which given how easy it would have been (even in 1928) to determine that they were wrong he just repeated what he had taught by other 'esoteric' books. He also tried rather ineffectually to deride the markings in the relieving chambers.

Credentials? None at all that I know of



[edit on 31/7/10 by Hanslune]

Thanks for that Hans!

I do not like mystical stuff, in the way they are presented as "fact" or "proof". In the same way I won't go to a fortuneteller (not exactly "crazy" about glass spheres, tarot cards and other "scientific" paraphernalia) to know about lotto numbers. It may make for a fun read on a slow afternoon but the grain of salt that will accompany it will be larger than Greenland!

Thank God Eratosthenes was NOT a mystic (or a Mason for that matter).

Yeah I skirted that stuff decades ago

It pretty much a formula of:

Made up stuff + speculatilion + wilful misrepresentation + fantasy + wouldn't it be cool if this was real = fact

Speculation is a valid tool but you slip into fringeville when you forget speculation is just that and nothing more.

I can remember speculating on the location of a bronze age village but it didn't become a reality or fact until we searched through the aerial photos, did the ground survey's and sank a few test pits.