I know exactly how to use consciousness to leave

Originally posted by tgidkp
even if, when we die, we achieve some other type of embodiment, life is not possible without form.

a disembodied floating consciousness is not alive.

tgidkp,

This is so interesting. Can you suggest a book that explains this idea?

Would this disembodied floating consciousness have individual thought or be meshed with a whole?

If a "disembodied floating consciousness is not alive" does that mean that the word alive applies only to that which has a physical manifestation of some type? I've always thought of alive as knowing. Consciousness to me means knowing, thus to me, conciousness is living.


*A little off topic, forgive me:

I have been thinking a lot lately about the supposed white light that people see at the moment of death. Some people say to go quickly into the light. Others say to avoid the light that it is a soul trap of some kind.
Would anyone share their thoughts on this?

reply to post by rusethorcain


I have tried meditating and yes (I couldn't stop thinking)it does free up something we do not know we have. NOTHING! lol Seriously, meditation at the highest level is basically a state of pure bliss brought on by the renunciation on EVERYTHING! No desire+ no ego+ no suffering =Nirvana! And they say 20 levels of it too!

Thank you for the feedback all,

I'm quite happy to admit that i still have many flaws, the ego does not allow itself to be removed lightly.

I think what's of great importance is the point whereby a necessary amount of consciousness is free'd from the ego so that you have control in the higher dimensions and can "astral project" at will without falling into the mind and start dreaming. It seems to me that a great deal more wisdom is held in the astral planes and that we, down here, are struggling to get any kind of wisdom.

Originally posted by tgidkp
the idea of leaving out of this physical habitation should be avoided.

i am not arguing against the navigational or "outside of time" concepts that are in the OP. however, in my understanding, LIFE occurs ONLY at the intersection of the noumenon and phenomenon. the perceiver and the perceived.

even if, when we die, we achieve some other type of embodiment, life is not possible without form.


a disembodied floating consciousness is not alive.

Perhaps we limit ourselves, by our own perspective, as to what forms there are, and awareness can exist.
A person that only ever seen apples, would not know what a orange was.

A person that has never experienced, out of body to diffent planes, it would be hard to conceive that we have other vehicles that we can travel in.

Originally posted by IamBoon
reply to post by SeeingBlue

 

Reality is perception and perception is reality. They are codependent and cannot exist without the other.

There have been quite a few studies that prove you absolutely wrong on this. For example, a pre-arranged incident where a person ran in and stole an instructors purse. The instructor used the word "him" to describe the assailant, and nearly the entire class agreed it was a man - the perception was that a man had stolen the purse. The reality was that it had been a woman who stole the purse.

If reality always equals perception it would be impossible to have an incorrect assumption.

reply to post by Thermo Klein


Correct, this is just 21st century hippie jargon.

It makes no sense, whatsoever.

Originally posted by unityemissions
I would only suggest very advanced practitioners to seek out a "non-dual" , or perpetual blissful state. I personally think it's incredibly foolish and without conscience to even attempt to reach such a state considering how much suffering is in the world. All the same, you do what you think is best.

I disagree. If you aren't fearless, a spiritual warrior, you won't reach a nondual state to begin with.



[edit on 7/27/2010 by electropop]

I think the point isn't to argue about this stuff, it's to experience it. After you've experienced it grow from the experience itself. Fighting over who's ideology is the best and who knows the most esoteric truths is just silly in my opinion

the ego does not allow itself to be removed lightly.

And why do you think that is?
Because you're trying to eliminate the very source of your aspirations and endeavours (in this case, the source of the endeavour to dispose of the Self).

People talk - and have been for a very long time - as if the Ego were some sort of villain.
Do they even know what it means?

The Ego means, pure and simply, "I", in Latin.
I am not pointing this out to appear "smart"; I am pointing it out because it's essential to proper understanding of the term.
(I think people may be confused about its meaning because of the proximity to the word "egotism", "egotistical", meaning caring about oneself only.)

There is no "false" Ego - unless by that one means a limited and distorted view of one's Self. But that doesn't call for dissolving the Ego itself.

The Ego is tyour Self - the very self from which you are yearning for the "liberation from the Ego" (and for everything else).

Why are you even trying to achieve "enlightenment" - or anything that would seem to benefit your Mind or soul or even a "greater good" (that's a whole different chapter in its own right)?

It's the Ego - your unique sentient, mental, emotional Self - that makes you search for benefits, that makes you aspire.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

What is wrong - I mean, misguided - is to perceive your own Self as the enemy, failing to realise that there is no You without it.

Separation means boundaries, and boundaries mean structure, form: the structure and form of You - the one and only You in existence, now or ever.

Of course there is no suffering left if you kill the Ego.
There is also no joy, because there is no aspiration.
There is no place left, as it were, where they could be felt.

If you were to slay the Ego, you would cease to exist. It makes a very elegant mental suicide. Thing is, you'll never know it, because there will be no You left.

(It's the same as with reincarnation. If you don't remain your Self - YOUR self - , then it matters very little whether you're reincarnated or not. You - the very one who is striving to survive, the very one who is searching for meaning - will be, for all intents and purposes, inexistent. But that is yet another chapter, and I doubt I'll be here to discuss it, should the need arise.)


BTW, the "exercises" in the original post do work, as do many others.
Transcending Time can be a blast... but only as long as there is a You who can experience the experience.

I am sure there is a very good reason for us to experience life - and, yes, achieve "enlightenment" - in our unique present shape and form.
And if it turned out there was no reason, then "enlightenment" would be a moot point anyway.














[edit on 27-7-2010 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Vanitas


Brilliant.

The primary effort of every atom of your body and every unit of indivisible information that merges to form your eternal essence is the establishment of you as a unique and inimitable Identity. Why would you fight to swim against such an overwhelming tide? Especially when that effort is doing nothing more than adding to the substance of that tide that you're trying to swim against.

The effort to kill off the ego - unless this sort of rhetoric is simply being employed in an effort to appear elevated in some way or other - is like a dog chasing its tail. The effort creates more defineable isolative context within the confines of that ego, further delineating the self from everything else that exists. That intense focus that is allegedly required serves only to increase the isolation of the self, by way of generating even sharper and more precise internal contextual identity. All of this only makes the ego stronger and more vibrant, and the self gains further identity differentiation relative to whatever else shares existence with it.

I kind of assume that since we've been given this corporeal existence for a very limited period of time, there must be a good reason for each moment of that brief state of existence. If not, then nothing at all about the human being makes sense. Seriously. The corporeal nature of the human being is a pretty significant percentage of what the human being is. If we were designed to ignore or overcome that enormous percentage of what we are - as opposed to exploring it and gaining from it in some manner - then it would be the only aspect of existence that is designed to be diametrically opposed to its obvious function. It would also be the only aspect of existence that has been specifically defined by human beings as being diametrically opposed to its obvious function - which, on the face of that alone, seems particularly suspect.

People invent ideas. I never forget that.

reply to post by raiden12


You are making good progress.

As you are ready more will be presented to you.

I don't think this is a good environment for discussing this. I would be concerned by some of the comments posted here and the intent of those posting them.

You already have all the answers to the puzzle. The keys present themselves to you when you are ready.

reply to post by raiden12


You are making good progress.

As you are ready more will be presented to you.

I don't think this is a good environment for discussing this. I would be concerned by some of the comments posted here and the intent of those posting them.

You already have all the answers to the puzzle. The keys present themselves to you when you are ready.

That was an interesting read, thanks for that.

I can't say I agree with you on the "drugs" part though.

But that's a topic for another message board.

Originally posted by electropop

Originally posted by unityemissions
I would only suggest very advanced practitioners to seek out a "non-dual" , or perpetual blissful state. I personally think it's incredibly foolish and without conscience to even attempt to reach such a state considering how much suffering is in the world. All the same, you do what you think is best.

I disagree. If you aren't fearless, a spiritual warrior, you won't reach a nondual state to begin with.



[edit on 7/27/2010 by electropop]

Every sane man fears death. Only psychopaths are fearless.

The Ego is just a survival mechanism for our 3D form. It is not who we are, but a tool we use to function while incarnated. The Ego has an educational level of about a 3 year old. It thinks everything should revolve around it and it's constantly making judgments to validate its existence. Your true Self, which is pure energy made of the ALL...divine universal consciousness is that part of you that is interconnected to everything. It's the "glue" that holds the atom together. It's intelligent energy...that has always been and will always be. Science hasn't discovered intelligent energy, but since they are making progress in quantum physics by confirming one particle can be in two places at once and they communicate "somehow"....they are slowly getting there.

The use of meditation is to connect to your true Self and stop allowing your Ego to run the show. Your Ego has limited vision, whereas your Self is connected to ALL.. Pat your Ego on it's head and validate it has a function, but stop allowing it to rule you. When you realize that ALL that IS...is ONE, and that there is nothing but You, there is no reason to serve the Ego. When you look into the eyes of another, it's only you staring back. When the divine consciousness energy subdivided itself in the Big Bang, it sent out specks of itself. That speck inside you is your soul (energy) and collectively we are the sum parts of one whole. Discovering this allows you to give compassion to even your enemies, because it's just you experiencing an incarnation at a less enlightened state. Give compassion to all and allow each speck to progress at their own speed. You have an infinite amount of time to progress in your adventure because there is no such thing as time. Time is an illusion for the 3D world. Time doesn't move.

I also don't see how people perceive their reality to be some sort of torture. It becomes that way when you reach higher states and you have a surge of power lust or something and suddenly wish you were somewhere less inhibiting. As well it would seem to indicate desire for a more powerful life experience, it kind of goes against the grain of acceptance of the moment etc, and that being simply enough.

I love my life. I'd like to see it become even better, the life i live is a reflection of all the work i've put into cultivating and freeing my personality and inner urges that stem from the depths of me. I meditate all the time and I don't exactly come out of it thinking "damn, i'm back here now". I have desires to make it better, but those are desires, if you get what i'm saying. thats the "nasty" ego.

I see this whole process of self realization as a gradual unfolding rather then an act of desperation. Here's an analogy... open your eyes, ... you can't help but observe and thus learn something when you do. You can't NOT learn, not observe, not process information, thus, as you will.. you will learn whats in your interests, what you desire, some sort of spiritual connectedness? freedom of self? etc.. What I mean is I see it as a natural process rather than again, an act of desperation.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, then I guess your life, your ego, your limited vantage point or reality and your appreciation of it subjective to the observer. I like what I see, but would like to see more.

I see the whole process as not really removing your ego per say, but as you move away from it, see it as if you were flying away from it, looking down on it... and as you "move away from the ego".. you get a bigger view of it, seeing how complex and big it is... and so as you are moving away from the ego you are moving away from your limited perspective of it. You can utilize your created identity to greater extents.

I'm pretty at peace with this dualistic nature at the moment, but i'm sure that will change too.

Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by electropop

Originally posted by unityemissions
I would only suggest very advanced practitioners to seek out a "non-dual" , or perpetual blissful state. I personally think it's incredibly foolish and without conscience to even attempt to reach such a state considering how much suffering is in the world. All the same, you do what you think is best.

I disagree. If you aren't fearless, a spiritual warrior, you won't reach a nondual state to begin with.



[edit on 7/27/2010 by electropop]

Every sane man fears death. Only psychopaths are fearless.

Really? Tell me....how does one go about killing energy? Since all matter is made from energy and you said man "dies"...then how do you kill energy, since the laws of physics state that energy cannot be created or destroyed, but only change its molecular structure.

I had an analogy when i was in a "HIGHer state" not long ago

What came to me is that everyone wants to "climb the spiritual ladder".. only the act of climbing is more like perceived motion and development, it is ego evolving. It is becoming more beautiful, more powerful, efficient, capable, controlled and able to express itself with less recourse of fear/insecurity. To climb this ladder is like to evolve simply.

Whereas... I mean,.. if you want to just remove yourself from ego and just exist in a state of well.. i'm not sure...statelessness peace and spiritual omnipressence? Then I would say...... Just get off the ladder... Hell with the ladder, it goes on infinitely as your creativity and learning takes you.


Only that's easier said then done. We are stuck to this damn ladder, call it ego attachment, karma. But right now, i'm not at that point of self realization where I see it as a bad thing. That ladder has some things at the top that I have yet to create and experience.

in due time ladder, maybe i'll get off ya one day.

reply to post by Vanitas


I strongly disagree. First you gave the latin definition of the word "ego" as "I", and then said there is another definition which relates to "egotism/egotistical". Clearly we are using the latter definition of "ego".

You then said that "Self" and "Ego" are the same, which they are not. The ego is derived from the self. The "Self" is derived from knowing/knowledge. Knowing/knowledge is derived from experience.

So, first we experience, then we know, then we create a sense of self, then from that we create the ego.

The ego IS false, and when it grows too strong and goes unchecked, it distorts our sense of self, insofar as distorts what we know. It is one of the true illusions of our mind and must be removed. The only way to remove the ego and regain a healthy sense of self is to analyze our experiences and see if what we know is pure or unpure, immediately leading to suffering or not, supporting the aspects of the path to "liberation" or not. Then if there is a need to either remove or transform what we 'Know', we may do so.

This will re-establish our sense of self without the ego. Meditation and self discipline can aide in doing this. Unfortunately, since there is a very fine line between the "self" and "ego", we must continuously re-establish our "self", and that is why Buddhism speaks about the "self" as also being an illusion that must be removed, but I won't go that far right now.


[edit on 27-7-2010 by LifeIsEnergy]

reply to post by raiden12

Raiden12,
I would highly suggest you post some kind of step by step instruction manual ....most don't know what is consciousness .....to most its a fleeting idea.

Post a step by step guide "for dummies" if that makes sense.

Thats the only way people will give it a go ...everything else is like trying to catch the wind with these folks