Two Witnesses?? Who are they??

I dont know if this is a conspiracy, and if this post shouldnt be here then I guess the admin ppl will move it.

Who are the two witnesses of revelations??? They are across the bible, from OT to NT. Haggi, Zecharia and Revelations. Candle sticks? Those who stand before the God of the earth? And there are multiple references in the bible about Zerrubabel. That God will shake heaven and earth and use him as a signet (which is a ring I think). Is he one of the witnesses? His name pops up in the context of the olive branches.

What do you all think (for those who believe in Rev/Jesus?2 witnesses) about this?? Some people say it is Elijah and Moses or Elijah and Enouch because they never died on earth and will be sent back here to die and then be brought back to life.Others say it will be two jewish guys sent to preach to the jews, and still others say that they will not be only two men, but two groups of Born Again Christians..like a crowd of people in sackcloth.
Im not to sure about the last belief, because the word "two" appears twice and it says "their bodies" so I believe it will be two men not a group of people.

links on 2 witnesses:
www.newfoundationspubl.org...
www.samliquidation.com...
www.j-e-s-u-s.net...
www.sentex.net...

What are your thoughts and is this relevant???

[edit on 17-6-2004 by TruthStrgnrThanFiction]

It's Moses and Elijah.
They were the two that came to comfort and support Christ at the transfiguration, I think it's in Malachi that says that Elijah will come before the great and terrible day of the Lord.
The miracles that are performed by the two witnesses are the miracles performed in the OT by Moses and Elijah.
Elijah went to the King and said it will not rain, and it didn't... by the power of God.
Moses turned the water to blood and issued plagues... by the power of God

Only the two themselves and God himself know the real truth.

I have read up more on this, and found some very interesting stuff. It is generally believed like you said that its Elijah who will be one of the witnesses because he stopped the rain etc. But if you read Zecharia and Haggai it mentions an imporant part of the puzzle. Remeber in Rev 11 it directly relates the two witnesses to the temple?? The verse begins by saying to Saint John , stand and measure the temple etc. In Zech and Haggai Zerrababul and Joshua are mentioned. They were involved in the second temple. The Lord says that Zerrubabel hands have laid the foundation for this temple and he will finish it. This has not happened yet!! In Haggai , the final paragraph again the Lord speaks a work to Zerrubabel saying he will shake heaven and earth, remove kingdoms etc and use this man as a signet for the Lord has chosen him. Now...the evidence suggests that this Zerrubable man could be one of the witnesses? Or am I off course here?? The name pops up more than once and in regards to the two anointed etc. Greatest question is how will this man appear? Will he be brought back from the dead to die again ?? He lived thousands of years ago and has already died, but that doesnt mean this scenairo is impossible, seeing as its Gods temple that this mans hands must finish the work. Look at lazuarus, he died but was brought back by Jesus so in effect he died TWICE! But again there are other points of reference about this. Remeber in the word Jesus said that Elijah had come back but the Jews did not recognise him? Its in the word. Was John the Baptist a type of Elijah? Is there are double fullfillement that God uses?? Could the two witnesses be normal people born in this age who represent Zerrubable and Joshua in the sence that Jesus said John represented Elijah??

Found this link, very very interesting ...i have never thought of it in this context pulling in Islam into the picture but here it is:

www.web-ministry.com...

I just want to add that I have just only found this link inthe last 5 mins and am still reading it, and dont want to bash Islam...but in the end the Gospel is the only way.

Ok I will give you guys some clues, god said everyone has to die once, who are the two guys that never died in the bible? Thats them, and then they will be killed.

OK but then who is Zerrubabel? He must be one of them??? His name is mentioned in the context of the 2 olive trees and he will lay the final foundation of the 3rd temple? Did you read the post with Haggai and Zecharia?? What about that? If a person has been taken to heaven , lived with God for thousands of years..why would they be dropped back on earth again??Could they even really die if they had not died before?? Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, Jesus said that, Jesus was transfigured and so were Elijah and Enoch. SO how can you die in the flesh after being transfigured and living for thousands of years with God??

Joshua and Zerrubable have some part to play in this and may be the two witnesses because they are spoken of in turn with the oilve trees etc.

www.apostasynow.com...

I haven't checked in for a while to read the posts, here's what I know about the Zechariah visions.

Zechariah is the prophet to the church. His visions were concerning the coming of Christ and the building of His church. These are promises to the church.
Zerubabel was the governor and boss when building the walls of the temple, he was the guy that said 'tear it down and do it again right' if it wasn't straight. He makes them face the truth and tears down false doctrine with its crooked walls. God wants His house straight and true and Zerubabel represents that kind of leader and that kind of church. The 'mighty mountain' represents the false church, the 'capstone' is Christ. The 'foundation' is the word. The 'plumb line in the hand of Zerubabel'=the truth preached. Two olive branches=prophets (speaker forth of God's word) gold pipes that pour out golden oil=channel through which the Holy Spirit flows to produce the light of the Word in a world of darkness.
The candlestick always represents the church (God's chosen ones not a building).
Joshua a type of Christ that represents us, the chosen in our filthy rags not worthy to enter the presence of the Lord, but He covered all our filthiness with His blood and He clothes us in righteousness. With the clothing of Christ's redemptive work Satan's accusations of unworthiness have no merit. His spirit dwells in us, it is Christ the branch that is spoken of in the other vision concerning Joshua. He is the branch that branches out to build the temple of the Lord, which is the church.

This is what I lean too. Thank goodness our salvation isn't based on knowing the right answer to this question. I lean to Elijah and the apostle John.

Malachi says that Elijah will come before the Day of the Lord. I believe it's in Matthew that Jesus says if the Jews had believed what John the Baptist was preaching then he(John the Baptist) would have been the Elijah to come. But they didn't so Elijah still has to come.

The it's in Revelation(I don't have my Bible with me right now) I'm pretty sure before it talks about the 2 witnesses that John is told He must prophesy again. I understand this could be referring to the writing of the Book of Revelation, but for some reason I think there's more to it than that.

Hm, neither this thread, nor the following thread, got many replies...:


...the Two Witnesses would be Od and Ob, Ida and Pingala, Lalana and Rasana...

reply to post by TruthStrgnrThanFiction
Truth StrgnrThanFiction,

I'm with you that it won't be none that have been taken to Heaven as they have new glorious bodies and cannot die anymore. How could one be killed who has eternal life!? Beside that I find the living among us have always been His witnesses.

Isa 43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.

Not only that, but what is the reason for this and what happens when these angels turn loose"

Re 7:1 ¶ And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Re 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Re 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Re 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

( Note "servants of our God" verse 3 above " )

It is apparant they have been prepared for some task and to all peoples as they are taken out of the 12 tribes of us. I would submit these will be the ones who will go with the Spirit and Power of Elijah for the second coming as John the Baptist went out in the Spirit and power of Elijah to herald the first coming of Christ.

When these angels turn it loose then it starts. That is Rev. 11:2 to end and it is finished. He still has His faithful even these last days.

Ro 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

There is more than 144,000 faithful on the earth but these are a special number, "His servants the prophets".

Truthiron.

I think it is Elijah and John the Baptizer. However, there is a remote possibility it could be Elijah and Moses. I'll explain both.

First let's look at the timing of these two witness. We have the announcement in Revelation 10, that there is a period of delay and there is an angel who appears highly upset about it. The seven thunders utter something that John is not allowed to record (this happens one other time in the Bible and it's found in Daniel 12:4) but we learn that in the days the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the actual "mystery" of God will be accomplished. Then the two witnesses come on the scene, testify, get killed, resurrect, ascend - then the seventh trumpet sounds.

The mystery of God lies in the power of resurrecting. When our loved ones die, the tether that unites physical and spirit seperates and it is the spirit which ascends, yet that is only a part of the equation of the power at work. There is another type of resurrection for the living. Jesus came so everyone could have this power in their life, have it to the full and he himself is it. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the ultimate divine union with God. The union takes place internally for your body is the temple for it. It involves the brain and the mind. It has been described as a merging of left and right hemispheres, or a melding of male and female. In an instant we are caught up to God, forever changed, made ALIVE in Christ and now apart of the true body that makes up the REAL church.

The baptism produces the Son Jesus Christ. Christ in you is the Son of Man. The baptism it'self is likened to a birthing process for good reason - because it is. The Son of Man is the key of David and the correct interpretation of the "secret of not tasting death" found in the Gospel of Thomas. "Those who seek should NOT STOP SEEKING until they find. When they find, they WILL BE DISTURBED. When they are disturbed, THEY WILL MARVEL, AND REIGN OVER ALL." Some sit in heavenly places before they even get there.

So back to the witnesses. It was Moses and Elijah who showed up at Jesus' transfiguration. It is also Moses and Elijah who show up spiritually in the ancient Jewish wedding tradition. I believe it's Moses who is there for the Bride, representing the law and Elijah for the Groom representing the prophetical aspects. Since the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what unites you divinely to your maker (for your maker is true husband) it's easy to see they are the two witnesses to the presence of the glory of God. Also, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is definately patterned after the ancient Jewish Wedding.

But Houston....... we got a problem and his name is John the Baptist.Lol I experienced my baptism of Spirit in the spring of 2007, but I need to stop here and think how best to present this to you guys for consideration.

I'll be back in a bit.

reply to post by TruthStrgnrThanFiction
TruthStrgnrThanFiction,

Another thought has come to mind as to why it probably won't be, Moses, Elijah or John the Baptist. It is simply God would be setting out proof. Yes sure this is what some want to see and it won't happen. We are to accept Him by His Word. God is not going to do that I am sure. Jesus declared John the Baptist was Elias, yes in the same Spirit, - read -

Mt 11:8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.
Mt 11:9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
Mt 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
Mt 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Mt 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Mt 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Mt 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

That wonderful Mystery we must have.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Now all things are possible with "Christ in you" even being an overcomer as He within Satan is a defeated foe.

Truthiron.