Migrants sell up and flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

reply to post by Burgo


Hey, I am ALL about getting the EMPIRE removed.

All about it.

Do a site search on 800 bases in 130 countries and you will find my comments there.

Libertarian.

All about getting out of foreign entanglements.

Now if you were talking about our gubmint, you are correct.

reply to post by jfj123


Simple, keep petitioning the government to stop doing nothing about the border situation and get to work. Write, call, email every single day till they HAVE to deal with it.

Get involved with your government, stop the pity party of "the government won't do anything" and demand that they do.

If at first you don't succeed, try try again. You don't give up and let neo nazi's fashion your laws for you. Jesus Christ didn't anyone learn ANYTHING from WWII?

reply to post by whatukno


Or, you can get your state to force the government to do something, even if it is force the federal government to show their hand.

The Arizona border bleeds 25k-35k per month. Info provided by a sheriff of a county in Arizona.

17% of all the people they catch are people that have been convicted of crimes here in the states already.

Do the math there wuk. How many criminals are streaming across just Arizona's border.

I think the people of Arizona have spoken and have ultimately FLIPPED the BIRD to the feds and the likes of you.

Rule of LAW!

reply to post by airspoon


Illegal aliens are bankrupting the country on multiple counts; morally, legally, ethically, financially, culturally and spiritually.

Americans see this every day though feel powerless to bring about change.
It appears obvious the people of taxpayer origen don't have a say or representation in 'their'? government.

There is no taxation without represenation, unless of course one is a 'subject' unto another. Who would that be? A faceless federal govt.? Why would it be necessary to have a faceless and unaccountable govt.? It isn't; never was.

Next.....
You're/We're
waiting, patiently.....

Does not every penny the IRS collects, goes not to social security or to the people but rather goes to wealthy international banksters to pay them for the outstanding debt they created in the first place via fractional reserve banking of which is inflation by design, leading to deflation by design unto you have nothing left but a few folks who own all assets.....bought and paid for by taxpayer expense.

Wow, that seems like a brilliant plan?
If you pay someone off it might work in the short run though it always ends the same way. Neither party finds satisfaction in a failed 'system', a matrix of conformity based on a false pyramid of lies which always ends up the same way; it collapses on itself in it's end; financial 'wealth' is an unnatural trait. It could be a good one if used 'properly' until a better system evolves by natural design. It will, the cosmos is active for a solution whether one is ready or not.

-o-ne can't buy 'real' physical and mental health. It is earned one person at a time. You could start with your neighbor.....the rest is the way of the domino.....with a proper end in mind.....otherwise.....they 'all' fall down.

The 'meaning' was lost in the archives for No Good Reason;
Who Was Humpty and why did they dUmpthe?

Who doin the humpty hump to whom?


[edit on 26-7-2010 by Perseus Apex]

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by jfj123

 

Simple, keep petitioning the government to stop doing nothing about the border situation and get to work. Write, call, email every single day till they HAVE to deal with it.

Get involved with your government, stop the pity party of "the government won't do anything" and demand that they do.

The government of AZ is doing something about it yet you have a problem with it? ???? ? ? ? ? ?

Also keep in mind that closing borders doesn't do anything about the CRIMINALS already here.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by whatukno

 

How many Canadians do you think that Arizona is going to stop? From what I understand, many Canadians go to Arizona every year for vacation or to spend the winter. So how many Canadians do you think the police are going to stop and make sure they are in the country legally?

Soon as Arizona deports one Canadian for being in the country illegally, I will stop thinking this is a racist law. The proof is in the pudding.

I know of at least a dozen or more illegal Albanians in my area who were sent packing and shipped home in the last 2 months. Just so you know, Albos are as white as they come and from Europe.

Now what's your excuse?

Statistically, yes Hispanics will be stopped and deported more(especially in the SW) but that's only because they make up 83% of the illegal alien problem in this country.

As for your neo nazi crap. Do we even need to start posting all of the hate videos from the hispanics and african american communities. I'll guarantee for every neo nazi video you produce I can produce 10 different hate videos featuring "brown" skinned people hating on whitey.





[edit on 26-7-2010 by Tyr Sog]

DP sorry..

[edit on 26-7-2010 by Tyr Sog]

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by EnkiCarbone
Show me in 1070 where it says that the 4th Amendment has been "erased".

Under the law, a police officer can lawfully approach you and ask for your papers whether it be you drivers licence or your birth certificate. What is it meant by the term 'lawfully'? The term is loose. The term 'lawful' can range from a police officer looking into your details after you have been caught in doing a crime to a police office merely approaching you because you look 'lost' or 'sick'. Whats stop a police office coming into your house under 'lawful' purposes as they can freely claim now and demand you show your papers? Whats to stop a police officer from arresting you based on the claim your drivers licence is not enough?

One of the most interesting excuses for the law is based on this notion that it now allows police officers to look up the details of individuals caught in a crime. The fact is police officers always had this ability to look up and do backround checks after they have caught somebody in the act. So this law is not merely about giving police officers that ability under such circumstances.

As for this claim the law forbids racial discrimmination? Based on what? Police officers can now freely pick, choose and approach individuals without any real reason, they can do so for racial reasons and they get away with it through making any excuse regarding their 'lawful contact'.

It doesn't say that at all. That's imaginary. If there's suspicion you've committed a crime then

If there has been 'suspicion' you have committed a crime? And where is this fine line between 'suspicion' and evidence? Its rather clear within our constitution, proven until guilty, you have your rights until you are proven guilty. Suspicion amounts to little to nothing.

Keep up the excuses.

They're not excuses, they're the letter of the law, kiddo. They're how Police actually work already irregardless of the bill, and you already know that. Don't hate the bill, hate the system.

The bill really changes very little of anything. These are methods police have always used and will continue to use baseless of color / race / ethnicity whatever. The system was corrupt long before this bill; this is just giving you a reason to complain because it may have been written by "white supremacists". I don't know why you libs just don't say that's on your mind - what you actually have the issue with, and not the bill at all. It must be rough that "actual" socialists are encroaching on your squishy soft PG13 Obama-socialism.

Is it possible to be gringo'ed in one's own country?
It appears that way.
Are 'you' a gringo?

The term 'gringo' goes back to the days of foreign troops arriving in green uniforms for whatever reason whether good or bad often armed with a lack of communication and other lingual difficulties; depends on who you ask though it should never be 'necessary' for foreign troops to be on another's soil telling locals what 'time' it is. It's just not right; you know what I mean. They often had no say in the matter anyhow; they were just following orders.....whether a soldier or the soldiered. Neither.....either knew their boss or the End of the mission. A soldier is often instructed or rather 'programmed' to ask no questions.....for No Good Reason.....kind of like.....sit and wait.....for no good reason.

I'll wait or fight for a Reason.
I usually wait till it arrives at my doorstep or rather doorstOp.
I suppose it's a natural trait.
It's been done for thousands of years for a Reason.
You wouldn't be here today if your relatives didn't know how defend themselves when necessary.

This gringo spoke another language and the locals therefor feared the unknown.....Hey there goes another green-go. Go green go. The only green I have going on are pay to workers and a green organic farm that feeds the community. If this makes me a gringo, I'm proud of it.

You see what I mean, the term itself is sign of ignorance.
Most, know Not what they say or even where it came from.
Divided and conquered.
You are being invaded within and without.

You can choose to defend yourself or not.
Your choice.
Whether you live or not, you will still bear the consequences.....
You have the 'rite' to choose.
You were born with it.
Remember?

People simply fear the unknown.
The language barrier never helped neither.
Next.....


[edit on 26-7-2010 by Perseus Apex]

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Chance321

 

Maybe you missed the fact that the police only get an hour training video for this law.

It's McCops everyone!

ktar.com...

PHOENIX -- Police agencies around Arizona received an hour-long video Thursday about enforcement of Arizona's new immigration law.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

While I.C.E. Agents have 4 weeks of training...

www.ice.gov...

Training Requirements

ICE offers a four-week training program now held at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC) ICE Academy (ICEA) in Charleston, SC conducted by certified instructors.

So, an hour long video is replacing 4 weeks of real training?

I don't need five minutes of training to know what the word Illegal means. Illegal Shoplifter, Illegal Car Thief, Illegal Alien..

The key word is Illegal.

Illegals who come from countries that just happen to share the same landmass as us have NO MORE right to enter this country illegally than say someone from Cameroon, Combodia or the Czech Republic.

You want in? Fine, but do it just like the rest of the world does: Legally.

I also doubt that the four weeks of training that ICE goes through is so very different than LEO training - basically how to enforce the law.

I would also point out that most deputies have a more extensive training regime - such as the Alexandria, VA Sheriff's Office, which mandates:

"Deputy Sheriffs will receive two weeks of New Employee Training and then participate in a two month Field Training Deputy Program. Within one year of hire, Deputy Sheriffs will attend a six month criminal justice academy which after successful completion, they are state certified in corrections, court security, civil process and law enforcement. "

Link: alexandriava.gov...

AZ is just showing the testicular fortitude to enforce our laws that the Feds sadly lack.

Edit: forgot the link.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by mydarkpassenger]

Originally posted by airspoon


It looks like the law is already working. What more could they ask for? Sadly, many of these illegals won't go home probably, rather they will just go to another state. While America can't claim victory by any stretch of the imagination, Arizona just may be able to.

From the article (and other sources too), it appears as if a solid majority of Americans are behind this type of policy, though don't hold your breath for your state to make any changes.

As far as the actual law goes, I'm on the fence, as I don't approve giving the police forces any more power than they already have. It just begs to be abused. With that being said, something has to be done and it at least Arizona is taking a step in the right direction. I still think the best bet would be to prosecute businesses, not migrants. Couple this with real border security and you just may turn the tide. If you cut of the leak at the source and remedy the cause of the leak, then you have a much better chance than simply putting a bucket underneath the drip. At least this is something and everything isn't getting wet.

--airspoon



www.reuters.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I think the problem is the undocumented workers that got into the United States before the tide of prosperity dried in the US. They, like most Americans, wish for the US to make a come back, so they are needed in a booming economy. Alas! The US is not coming back, and they need to go.

Anyone with good eyesight would know this crisis has been dragging on since 1999 with Clinton. It was only stimulus packages, and the incessant flow of debt that has people thinking they have had patches of prosperity.

If the migrant workers aren't needed and won't be needed in the US, they need to go home and let the American economy take its course. Otherwise, they will be blamed for all the mistakes the US people and te US government have made in acquiring so much debt.

Let the migrants return to the countries of origin, and let everybody claim victory.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
My question is this. Police are only gonna card you if your doing something wrong.

So if your not breaking the law, why flee?

Things that make you go hhhhmmmm.

No, it makes me say, Read the law instead of taking Drudge's enless parroting of talking points as true." The law reads, "any legitimate stop." That is any interaction. For example, if an officer stops you as you're walking down the street to ask if you know "John Doe", a suspect in a jaywalking case, you can be 'carded. Same with a stop for the investigation of a nebulous "unsafe condition" of a vehicle. And the ground is "suspicion" not a reasonably articulable probable cause. Or if a cop stops a 12 year old to give him a DARE sticker for his bike. How many 12 year olds carry a passport or birth certificate when they go to the corner store to get mom some bread? Or if you call the police to report that your daughter was raped. "Papers please!"
Arizona will reap what it sows. The crop is already sprouting.
"Ben Bethel, owner of the boutique Clarendon Hotel in Phoenix, told KJZZ that customers canceled 80 room reservations - about $8,000 worth of business - in just one day last week." www.nydailynews.com...
There is already talk of moving next year's All Star game since about 40% of major leaguers are hispanic
So, no A-Rod, Miguel Cabrera (Tigers), David DeJesus (Royals), Vlad Guerero (Rangers) Mag Ordono (Tigers), and that's just the AL.
Arizona Diamondback attendance is down by 2,000/game this year.
And tax revenues are taking a big hit. www.azcentral.com...
Numerous meetings and conventions have moved or been cancelled, such as:
2010 annual border governors conference
Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc. (5,000 expected attendees
American Immigration Lawyers Association meeting
National Urban League

Originally posted by Pimpish
Here is some information on one of the guys who co-wrote the law: Kris Kobach but Russell Pearce was the main writer.



[edit on 25-7-2010 by Pimpish]

Nice! Russell Pearce the main writer of the bill is homies with JT Ready the scumbag skinhead, of course when confronted on his affiliations with this Neo Nazi he acted like he had no idea. Riiiiiight.

Taken from his Wiki link.
Pearce was also criticized for his association with white supremacist J.T. Ready.[13] Pearce endorsed Ready for Mesa City Council in 2006[14] and appeared with him at several rallies. Pearce has since indicated he was unaware of Ready's neo-Nazi affiliations at the time he made the endorsement.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by EnkiCarbone

 

Also, In any other country, you are asked by police constantly where you're from and if you're in that country legally. You're often asked for your papers / passports. Are we supposed to be special now? This isn't about "Police State", so quit crying like a little girl. Your little wishy washy rights jive doesn't fly straight.

That's a crock of BULL!

I have been to England twice in my life, not a single time other than the person at customs has anyone EVER asked to see my paperwork.

Careful analysis showed you just tripped yourself up: "..not a single time other than the person at CUSTOMS has anyone asked to see my paperwork"

Just how MANY illegal aliens go through customs to cross our southern border? Wouldn't that make them LEGAL visitors?

By the way, the UK isn't the entirety of the world in how they handle visitors - try some other places and you'll see.

EDIT: Spelling



[edit on 26-7-2010 by mydarkpassenger]

[edit on 26-7-2010 by mydarkpassenger]

Originally posted by Procession101

Originally posted by Pimpish
Here is some information on one of the guys who co-wrote the law: Kris Kobach but Russell Pearce was the main writer.



[edit on 25-7-2010 by Pimpish]

Nice! Russell Pearce the main writer of the bill is homies with JT Ready the scumbag skinhead, of course when confronted on his affiliations with this Neo Nazi he acted like he had no idea. Riiiiiight.

Taken from his Wiki link.
Pearce was also criticized for his association with white supremacist J.T. Ready.[13] Pearce endorsed Ready for Mesa City Council in 2006[14] and appeared with him at several rallies. Pearce has since indicated he was unaware of Ready's neo-Nazi affiliations at the time he made the endorsement.

You guys are really hate those lousy racist Skinheads and Neo-Nazis, huh? So anyone who associates with them in anyway, is a complete pariah, right?

So where were you guys when it came out that Obama's family friend and "spiritual adviser" of 20 years, was the racist and antisemitic nutcase Rev. Jeremiah Wright?

Why didn't you guys paint Obama with the same brush you're trying to tar all us Pro-Legal Immigration folks with? The laws are on the books; Arizonans just want to see them enforced, so if Uncle Sugar won't, AZ will.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by mydarkpassenger]

Originally posted by 4nsicphd

Originally posted by nixie_nox
My question is this. Police are only gonna card you if your doing something wrong.

So if your not breaking the law, why flee?

Things that make you go hhhhmmmm.

..How many 12 year olds carry a passport or birth certificate when they go to the corner store to get mom some bread? Or if you call the police to report that your daughter was raped. "Papers please!"

That's an invalid effort at a reductio ad absurdum argument, unless you postulate that Arizona is going to add 20,000 new cops just to mega-enforce this law alone and use it to harass 12 year olds. Now that really is absurd.

In this poor economy with states and localities getting squeezed for funding, there are far more important laws that are at the top of the law enforcement priority list, such as laws against rape, drugs, gangs, murder, child abuse and such.

What this law WILL do is give state and local LEO's the tool to enforce penalties against illegals when the opportunity permits, instead of the current "Catch and Release" attitude of ICE, which often fails to show up when called by a locality, tieing the locality's hands and forcing a release of an illegal alien.

reply to post by 4nsicphd


People are so far off on this contact by Law Enforcement its not even funny. I cannot stop an adult, spark up a conversation then ask him for his immigration status. As far as speaking to a minor, please learn the law. As it stands now, Law Enforcement cannot speak to a minor without a parent / gaurdian present (contrary to what you see on tv). Hell as a Law Enforcement Officer, I cannot even arrest a minor. Only Juvenile Officers can. On the rare occurences we have to speak to minors, we have a seperate Miranda form we have to read to the minor in front of the parents, and the parents have to agree to it, otherwise we have to stop all questioning.

If I did this, it would be thrown out of court because of the following:

No legitimate need to ask this type of question for a voluntary contact.
You cannot "detain" someone then ask guilt seaking questions without reading Miranda to them.

Any evidence gleaned from this voluntary contact without Miranda would be fruit of the poisonous tree, and inadmissible as evidence in court.

Arizona is not creating a seperate immigration system as some have claimed. They are allowing their officers to investigate whether someone is here legally or illegally based off of legitimate encounters (traffic stop, crime, etc).

Arizona is not placing officers on the border, nor are they trying illegals in state courts. Once local officers have someone in custody for immigration violations, they go to the nearest jail that is contracted by the Federal Government to house ICE detentions.

The suggestion Arizona is making a seperate immigration system is incorrect.
The suggestion they are taking away the 4th amendment is incorrect, and is nothing more than fear mongering.

If people are going to argue about the Law, please understand how they work, who they apply to, and how they are enforced.


[edit on 26-7-2010 by Xcathdra]

These are people. You folks are awful and should be ashamed of your behavior. Seriously. How can you actually look at yourselves in the mirror? And I'm assuming a bunch of you "consider yourself" to be christians. Perhaps you should read a little of what your guy Jesus taught.

You are disgusting people.

Originally posted by pirhanna
These are people. You folks are awful and should be ashamed of your behavior. Seriously. How can you actually look at yourselves in the mirror? And I'm assuming a bunch of you "consider yourself" to be christians. Perhaps you should read a little of what your guy Jesus taught.

You are disgusting people.

Didnt he also teach to turn the other cheek along with Do not judge others unless ye be judged yourself? Careful with the rocks there, glass breaks fairly easy.

I have absolutely no issues with people coming to this country, so long as it is done legally. If you come to this country illegaly, then you have broken the law. Why is it so taboo to enforce our laws? Why do people consider it racist to enforce these laws?

reply to post by Xcathdra


The law is itself an assumption of guilt till the accused can prove their innocence.

A person stopped under this law is assumed to be illegal till they can prove to the officer that they are in fact a legal resident. The police officer then becomes sole judge and jury.

Not to mention the fact that this law is not uniform with the Federal Law and therefore a violation of Article I Section 8 of the United States Constitution.

I wish I could move to Arizona and have an attorney on retainer, I bet I could make a but load of money off the lawsuit I could bring to the state for the violation of civil rights I would receive as a result of some overzealous cop thinking I am a Mexican.

[edit on 7/26/2010 by whatukno]