Tibetan Psychic Traditions

TIBETAN PSYCHIC TRADITIONS

The Buddhists take a wise approach to psychic abilities. The monks know that during the course of their spiritual development they will develop spiritual powers. They regard them as a distraction, not an end in-and-of-themselves and not something to flaunt or brag about.

From the above link:

"It is true that certain psychic faculties capable of a worldly application, such as the Dibba-cakkhu (clairvoyance), Dibba-sota (clairaudience), Mano-Maya-Kaya (projection of the ‘astral body’) and other paranormal powers are developed in the course of Buddhist meditation. . . .The Buddha and the Arhats possessed such powers and when need arose they exercised them for the sake of the ignorant who demanded ‘signs and wonders.’ But in general the Buddha deplored their use, preferring to spread the Dhamma by the ‘miracle of teaching’ and the self-propagating power of truth. To those not yet fully emancipated from worldly delusion they can become attachment-forming faculties, and as such have to be guarded against and overcome in the struggle for Nibbanna. In the Buddhist view, one who embarks on concentration exercises to obtain supernormal powers (Iddhi) is doing so with the wrong intention and at great danger to himself. If all power corrupts, supernormal power can corrupt superlatively." (Mahathera, 1975, p.iv)

The Dalai Lama has said he is willing to work with Western scientists regarding psychic abilities. Imagine an army of psychic monks as parapsychology subjects! If the right experiments were designed, Tibetan monks could help us to learn a lot about psychic abilities. That kind of knowledge could help us to usher in a scientific and cultural golden age.

"I am well aware, however, of the danger of tying spiritual belief to any scientific system. . . . This is not to say that I consider things like the oracle and the ability of monks to survive nights spent out in freezing condition to be evidence of magical powers. Yet I cannot agree with our Chinese Brothers and sisters, who hold that Tibetan acceptance of these phenomena is evidence of our backwardness and barbarity. Even from the most rigorous scientific viewpoint, this is not an objective attitude. At the same time, even if a principle is accepted, it does not mean that everything connected with it is valid. . . . . Great vigilance must be maintained at all times when dealing in areas about which we do not have great understanding. This, of course, is where science can help. After all, we consider things to be mysterious only when we do not understand them. . . . . Through mental training, we have developed techniques to do things which science cannot yet adequately explain. This, then, is the basis of the supposed ‘magic and mystery’ of Tibetan Buddhism." (Dalai Lama, 2002, pp. 230-243)

Would anyone care to discuss this?

[edit on 24-7-2010 by Student X]

Originally posted by Student X
They regard them as a distraction

Far from that lol. Clairvoyance is a rare attribute of pure (well, purer) souls which isn't gained but is awakened. I strongly doubt that Tibetan monks consider that as a distraction... it allows them to see things as they are and is vital part of enlightenment and attainment of Buddhahood. Although it is not a "toy", most people (especially monks) are far beyond that childish phase. But you can still be tricked into using it for negative purposes resulting in dire consequences.

Venerable Thubten Ngodup, better known as Nechung Oracle is the official Tibetan prophet. Dalai Lama consults him for his views on current matters, including politics (although Dalai Lama himself can see much), especially in times of great peril. There is very little documented stuff on him and his consultations, they never brag about it. He is in the Nechung monastery and anyone can arrange a meeting with him. In fact, anyone can meet with Dalai Lama himself as well. Knowing what's going to happen kinda eliminates the need for stricter security.

Besides that, you have small and big prophecies in all major religions.

reply to post by Student X


I think that this has taken alot of time to happen. Many "eastern" religions involve alot more spirituality and mystical ideas than their western counterparts and it only makes sense for westerners to want to learn about them. What rings an alarm bell for me is that if great things were discovered here, imagine the power the USA or the so called "Shadow Government" could gain with the knowledge.

This could fuel paranoia beyond belief if easily led people believe the government now has supernatural ways of controlling them.

It is very trusting of the Dalai Lama to allow such a thing, and a great surprise actually; one can only hope he knows what he is doing.

The Dalai is very eloquent.

I think the nature of psychic powers is heavily resistant to scientific scrutiny. Firstly, not that I consider myself a practitioner but, they wouldn't use the law of averages as an assumption. If the mass of power exists in the scientifically provable domain, let's say this is 90% of reality at this point in time, then that last 10% deemed mysterious, clandestine, or psychic will nessecarily fall in the range of absurdity when compared to all other forms of power. It would be like continuously being able to manifest statistically improbable absurdities that nevertheless remain unknown because they are overshadowed by dominant reality.

Does this makes sense?

For science the only way things exist are in their generalized form, not taking into account something like QM.

[edit on 24-7-2010 by AProphet1233]

Originally posted by SassyCat

Originally posted by Student X
They regard them as a distraction

Far from that lol. Clairvoyance is a rare attribute of pure (well, purer) souls which isn't gained but is awakened. I strongly doubt that Tibetan monks consider that as a distraction... it allows them to see things as they are and is vital part of enlightenment and attainment of Buddhahood. Although it is not a "toy", most people (especially monks) are far beyond that childish phase. But you can still be tricked into using it for negative purposes resulting in dire consequences.

To add (in a nutshell), this is different between the Theravada (old school, minority) and Mahayana (newer school, majority incl. Tibetan), like if both traditions are roads to nirvana then a Theravadin would drive straight to nirvana while a Mahayana monk might go off-road to some town and get some upgrades for his car then going back on the main road eventually. This is because Mahayana have the bodhisattva ideal which is basically postponing reaching nirvana to help other sentient beings with their suffering. If the upgrades are like 'special powers' to teach the Buddhist doctrine thus reducing suffering then this is acceptable.

this does not seem like a true representation of eastern practitioners;

all eastern practitioners practice to gain powers and nothing else; the ideal that they are practicing to reach an undefined point is the veil.

maybe the tibetians are different than other eastern practitioners; but that would be stupid to say. that is like saying chavez and venezuela does not try to practice "democracy" in light of their perceived differences with "america".

to label a school based on a person other people attempt to immolate is idolatry; and if the people are practicing idolatry they will fail to develop their own set of "powers"; if this is the case for tibetans, they are no greater or leser than any other "tradition" that practices for the attainment and growth of direct now "power".but from my own perspective is there is distinction in a cult that wants to develop powers and says that this is their function for being; or a cult that takes by any means available the means to attempt to develop power, thus using tactics such as criticizing another cults approach.

Originally posted by SassyCat

Originally posted by Student X
They regard them as a distraction

Far from that lol. Clairvoyance is a rare attribute of pure (well, purer) souls which isn't gained but is awakened. I strongly doubt that Tibetan monks consider that as a distraction... it allows them to see things as they are and is vital part of enlightenment and attainment of Buddhahood. Although it is not a "toy", most people (especially monks) are far beyond that childish phase. But you can still be tricked into using it for negative purposes resulting in dire consequences.

Thank you. I don't know any Buddhist monks personally so I must go by impressions, and the impression I have gotten is that Buddhist monks don't undergo their disciplines to gain the power of conscious control over awakened psi, but rather to gain enlightenment.

Enlightenment may involve spontaneous psychic epiphanies (allowing them to see things as they are), but it need not involve conscious control over psychic forces. A monk who gains conscious control over psi will face spiritual challenges and temptations that other monks, who only experience spontaneous psi, don't have to face. Or so it seems to me.

From the link in the OP:

2. Detrimental Effects on One’s Spiritual Development

Ego and Humility

The fear of an immoral use of psi is a very obvious surface fear; the fear of pride is a subtler level of fear. In the Indian subcontinent and amongst the Tibetan people it is considered wrong to pay any special attention to psi. Manifesting psychic abilities is thought to have detrimental effects on one’s spiritual development. It is stressed that having attained Enlightenment, one is no longer disturbed spiritually by attainment of psychic abilities, whereas, for unenlightened people, psychic abilities are seen as very tricky indeed, associated with deception, with glamour and with pride.

[...]



[edit on 25-7-2010 by Student X]

Originally posted by Student X
The fear of an immoral use of psi is a very obvious surface fear; the fear of pride is a subtler level of fear. In the Indian subcontinent and amongst the Tibetan people it is considered wrong to pay any special attention to psi. Manifesting psychic abilities is thought to have detrimental effects on one’s spiritual development. It is stressed that having attained Enlightenment, one is no longer disturbed spiritually by attainment of psychic abilities, whereas, for unenlightened people, psychic abilities are seen as very tricky indeed, associated with deception, with glamour and with pride.

I don't know much about Psi but just like any energy, it can cause harm if used improperly. In the video bellow a mystic from Java is tricked into abusing some of his "abilities". It is an indication that he's still just a beginner student and doesn't yet bear the full responsibility for his actions.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79
To add (in a nutshell), this is different between the Theravada (old school, minority) and Mahayana (newer school, majority incl. Tibetan), like if both traditions are roads to nirvana then a Theravadin would drive straight to nirvana while a Mahayana monk might go off-road to some town and get some upgrades for his car then going back on the main road eventually. This is because Mahayana have the bodhisattva ideal which is basically postponing reaching nirvana to help other sentient beings with their suffering. If the upgrades are like 'special powers' to teach the Buddhist doctrine thus reducing suffering then this is acceptable.

Yeah, spreading dharma is positive but using "mystical powers" for this is tricky and I guess only the highest masters can bear the consequences. This new, Mahayana approach is more prevalent lately for a reason, and not just in Buddhism.

Originally posted by Ausar
to label a school based on a person other people attempt to immolate is idolatry; and if the people are practicing idolatry they will fail to develop their own set of "powers"; if this is the case for tibetans, they are no greater or leser than any other "tradition" that practices for the attainment and growth of direct now "power".

Buddhism isn't "greatest", they have idols and deities similar to Hindu religion. Many of them perform idol worship. Nepalese Buddhists even perform massive and bloody animal sacrifice. I think only Islam strictly forbids idolatry. Either way, no religion is right in its entirety.

There is no one single rule of what you must do to attain enlightenment, everyone has their own path. Old hindu sadguru Narayan Maharaj is a perfect example of that. This is his account of god realization:

As soon as Narayan swallowed the first morsel of food, the appearance of the old man completely changed. He found that the old man was none other than Dattatrey! The old man's body had transformed into a young man's with six arms and his old face transformed into three heads.

This is considered no stranger in many religions:

When the old man transformed into Dattatrey before Narayan's eyes, it was actually Khwaja Khizr who was the old man and took the form of Dattatrey. Khizr is the divine office of a Perfect Master who takes various forms to bestow Realization and Perfect Masterhood upon those individuals who do not have a living Master. Narayan did not have a living Perfect Master, so Khizr took the form of Dattatrey because that was the divine form of God that Narayan worshiped.

Khwaja Khizr was also the Master of Moses and appeared as a burning fire before the Hebrew Prophet (who was stationed on the sixth plane). Khizr was also the Master of Francis of Assisi and appeared as the crucified Jesus before the Christian saint. Actually, Francis was greater than a saint, he was a Perfect Master and became God-Realized through the intervention of Khizr. The Khizr is actually a divine office, not a real person.

This is how god-realized Meher Baba (no specific religion) recounts an incident with his old friend who didn't believe Baba has attained godhood:

A chap named Baily was my school friend and he just could not believe how a boy like me who used to play marbles with him, could as a man attain such a high state while he was still in the same state where he was. The difference between him and me was so phenomenal that he wanted to see some miracles as proof in order to gain conviction about me. One day, when Baily was writing something in my thatched hut in Poona, all of a sudden the inkwell began dancing up and down! He was flabbergasted. After a little while, the pen jumped from his hand and also started to dance. He started shouting, 'Baba! Baba!' and wept continuously for some days. From that day on, he was convinced of my powers and had faith in me.
"I told him, 'You are a fool. If this small phenomena could convince you of spirituality, why don't you go and follow Muhammad Chhel, who was a well-known tantric magician?'
"All miracles are child's play, whereas spirituality is far above them. Miracles in themselves have no spiritual value or significance. But they are necessary and, at times, performed by the Master as a means to convince people of Truth and spirituality. Jesus performed miracles not for his own gain, but to make people recognize the Truth and to create faith in them. Yet, when he was crucified, he who could raise the dead, did not stop it!"

A Muslim qutub and Sufi saint Hazrat Tajuddin Baba performed many miracles which gained him followers from all branches of life, rich and poor. He even revived the dead, from humans to animals. He was also seen using his "powers" in discretion, such as lifting objects without really touching them.

I think western governments or I should really say shaddow governments already have full knowledge of such powers and have been using them to further their agenda. You just have to look into the testimonies of people trained in MKUltra and the super soldier programs.

Here are a few to look up: James Casbolt, Matt Todd, David Corso, Duncan O'finiaon, Aaron McCollum, Ben Murphy.

reply to post by Namaste1001


I don't doubt they have full knowledge, but I DO doubt they have full wisdom. Sooner or later their lack of wisdom will leave them vulnerable to the trickster archetype. The trickster is found wherever psi is found. That's why wisdom traditions realize that personal development must be a part of the psychic awakening process.

[edit on 25-7-2010 by Student X]

Originally posted by Ausar
this does not seem like a true representation of eastern practitioners;

all eastern practitioners practice to gain powers and nothing else; the ideal that they are practicing to reach an undefined point is the veil.

This is exactly true. However, a decent system--and most are decent in their own way--strive to preach (sorry!) enlightenment as the place to operate from in the striving for these supernormal powers. That is the gateway and the gold standard, but not the only avenue.

On the other hand, you can have a rampant, multi-headed Hydra thrashing around non-ordinary powers amongst the unenlighted. That would be/could be the real Dark Force.

The legimacy of and use of Remote Viewing is a prime example.

So this dilemma is nothing new. It's as old as human thought, but always has been an immensely dangerous pathway and grows increasingly so as technology and drugs are developed to attain the sought powers without moral restraints having been carefully constructed before hand.

Originally posted by OrionTri
reply to post by Student X

 

What rings an alarm bell for me is that if great things were discovered here, imagine the power the USA or the so called "Shadow Government" could gain with the knowledge.

What makes you think they don't have the knowledge of such abilities already?

Such is the difference between knowledge and wisdom. Imagine the kind of Karma brought upon such pseudo-initiates by using such tools for evil. The choice is up to each of us. Do we choose the path of good or of evil?