The Heiwa Challenge

reply to post by AquariusDescending

It amazes me how uninformed you remain after posting so much here every day.

By "uninformed" I guess you mean unwilling to repeat all the bilge that spews out from conspiracy webistes that are dripping with hatred and paranoia. In that case, yes, I am "uninformed".

You deny way too much,

Thats too funny.

things that everyone else already agrees on, like these polls and what they are asking, which is very easy to read.

Everyone? Thats stretching it just a tiny bit, don't you think? I mean to extrapolate from a poll done in 2006 that says that maybe 36% think that maybe the government knew something to "millions of Americans" is just straining credulity. But who am I to disprupt your fanatasies.

Do you think everything you post is automatically true just because you say it, so you never have to double check and you're never wrong?

Listen, I know you are going to really love this, but I try to stay away from so-called "facts". I generally try to stick to asking questions and challenging assumptions and conclusions drawn from rumors and disparate facts.

I don't understand how you can say so much that is so blatantly wrong and yet never think you've made a mistake somewhere.

Yeah, back at ya.

reply to post by hooper


So let's look at what you just did.

You dissected my post into 5 quotes which you then bicker with argumentatively, saying nothing, but in your previous post you clearly said this:

Originally posted by hooper
I'm sorry, but there are not polls showing millions of Americans are asking questions about the basic events on 9/11

And I proved you completely wrong with these:

Third of Americans suspect 9-11 government conspiracy

By THOMAS HARGROVE
Scripps Howard News Service

More than a third of the American public suspects that federal officials assisted in the 9/11 terrorist attacks or took no action to stop them so the United States could go to war in the Middle East, according to a new Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll.

The national survey of 1,010 adults also found that anger against the federal government is at record levels, with 54 percent saying they "personally are more angry" at the government than they used to be.

www.scrippsnews.com...

A poll taken by World Public Opinion, a collaborative project of research centers in various countries managed by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, College Park, polled 16,063 people in 17 nations outside of the United States during the summer of 2008. They found that majorities in only 9 of the 17 countries believe Al Qaeda carried out the attacks.

46 percent of those surveyed said al Qaeda was responsible, 15 percent said the U.S. government, 7 percent said Israel and 7 percent said some other perpetrator. One in four people said they did not know who was behind the attacks.[1]

The summary of the poll noted that "Though people with greater education generally have greater exposure to news, those with greater education are only slightly more likely to attribute 9/11 to al Qaeda." Steven Kull, director of WorldOpinionPoll.org, commented "It does not appear that these beliefs can simply be attributed to a lack of exposure to information."[2] Of those who said the United States was the perpetrator, Kull says many believe it was an attempt to justify an impending U.S. invasion of Iraq.

en.wikipedia.org...


So you said no millions of people are asking questions about the "basic events," yet I just showed you two sources (the 2nd one, the Wikipedia page, has tons of additional sources there) that by numerous polls and surveys millions of Americans are challenging the basic assumptions of that day! And millions of people across the world are already convinced that the US did it! You were and remain WRONG! But you will never admit it of course.

Instead of acknowledging or responding to those surveys at all, the ones that prove your statement above completely wrong, you just dissected my post and bickered with it like I said. You said nothing of substance and avoided admitting you made a mistake, like always.

You act like you are above being wrong, and can never acknowledge it, even as you literally make stuff up and post it like it's true. Do you think no one can read here? Really???

One more "basic life fact" for you hooper, while I've noticed something else ignorant that you said.

Originally posted by hooper
Thats stretching it just a tiny bit, don't you think? I mean to extrapolate from a poll done in 2006 that says that maybe 36% think that maybe the government knew something to "millions of Americans" is just straining credulity.

Population of USA: about 307,000,000

36% of that: 110,520,000


In case you can't read that, it says "one-hundred and ten million, five-hundred and twenty thousand."

What kind of math are you doing, that over 1/3 of the US population is not millions of people???

If I'm a "truther," are you doing "falser" math?

reply to post by AquariusDescending

Millions of Americans are already "asking questions" as you put it, according to numerous polls and surveys.

Sorry, please show me the "math" wherein you calculate that "millions of Americans are asking questions" based on one 4 year old pole where 36% think that maybe the government may have known more than they are saying. I think that is that special "truther" math where 36% of 16000 respondents thinking that there is a chance that somebody in the government may have known more than we have been lead to believe = millions of Americans thinking "inside job".

Millions of Americans are asking questions - about health care, the economy, banking regulation, social security, immigration, the environment, and other real topics. An investigation into controlled demolition at the World Trade Center? "Not on the radar" doesn't even begin to describe it.

Originally posted by hooper
Sorry, please show me the "math" wherein you calculate that "millions of Americans are asking questions" based on one 4 year old pole

You mean poll.

This is a pole:




And, that "one 4 year old pole" is not alone. That's why, I included, the other link, to Wikipedia, which had, many more, sources, if you click on it and look at it. Do you see that now at least?

where 36% think that maybe the government may have known more than they are saying. I think that is that special "truther" math where 36% of 16000 respondents thinking that there is a chance that somebody in the government may have known more than we have been lead to believe = millions of Americans thinking "inside job".

If you think this is "special truther math," then why did the same people who wrote the news article, and obviously aren't truthers if you read the article, made the exact same extrapolation?

Third of Americans suspect 9-11 government conspiracy

Maybe because, they just know something about statistics?

Quick and shady statistics are one thing, and they do exist, but this Howard/Ohio University survey and most of the ones listed on the Wikipedia page are all done scientifically, by a major university or polling company, using accepted facts of statistics.

Those aren't just the polls that the truthers have scraped together on the Wikipedia page, they're ALL major 9/11 polls that have asked these kinds of questions over the years.

Millions of Americans are asking questions - about health care, the economy, banking regulation, social security, immigration, the environment, and other real topics.

And what's being done about any of those, realistically? A lot of nothing -- no different than 9/11 activists which have plenty of rallies, marches, conferences across the globe, supporters in former positions of military and government and across all fields of science. Yet nothing is done, no different at all from banking regulation, society security, etc.

In fact they have virtually NO oversight on the Federal Reserve, even as to what they did with the vast majority of the bail out money they received. What's done about that? Nothing. Exactly the same. All of the government's behaviors reflect the same thing, when it isn't in the interest of big money and power.

A lot of talk but nothing is done. You know it. The politicians stonewall you, because your interests aren't where the money is, and they do it on purpose.

An investigation into controlled demolition at the World Trade Center? "Not on the radar" doesn't even begin to describe it.

Take ATS itself as a good survey of this. The 9/11 forums are actually one of the most active forums. In fact take YOURSELF as an example of this phenomenon. You come here every day!! That is how involved YOU are with the whole controversy.

You think everyone else is different? Everyone isn't on ATS, but 9/11 is still a widely popular controversy. If you don't believe me, all I can say is get out more often, especially in bigger cities, look up where events are taking place and see for yourself how widespread they are and how many people are involved. Look at the member lists on the AE911 website or Scholars for Truth or Pilots for Truth or Firefighters for Truth or any of those organizations. Look at how many lectures and conferences were videotaped and put onto YouTube. Imagine how many more never made it to YouTube.

You're afraid to consider it honestly, because then you wouldn't be able to keep denying it so easily anymore. The less you know, the easier it is to deny, I know. But I told you where to look. You can't minimize the whole issue but so much without sounding ridiculous.

reply to post by AquariusDescending


How many of those polled and chose the "government involvement" explanation actually looked into it more? Or were they just like a majority of people who believe something despite evidence, they just hear it and accept it if it goes with their worldview .

And what's being done about any of those, realistically?

Nothing is going on with health care, the economy, banking regulation, social security, immigration, the environment? SB1070? Economic reform bill, people calling for retirement changes etc? Regardless of what you think of the issues, "nothing" is a bit disingenuous, no?

...plenty of rallies, marches, conferences across the globe, supporters in former positions of military and government and across all fields of science

In fact they have virtually NO oversight on the Federal Reserve...

Gotta throw those bankers in the conspiracy somehow...

You're afraid to consider it honestly, because then you wouldn't be able to keep denying it so easily anymore.

So mass awareness / acceptance is relevant to what's true or not? Isn't that the opposite of what conspiracy theorists preach...? Religion is pretty widespread and accepted, it doesn't mean it's somehow more valid.