Israel convinces US with Credible military plan on Iran

reply to post by Sky watcher

Do some digging and I bet you will find she is moving some important troops to the Georgia and Iranian borders right about now very quietly under the cover of exercises just like in 2008.

I had a look and couldn't find anything. Could you post the source where you read that please?

Originally posted by Masterjaden

Originally posted by Ben81

* * * *

about the wipe israel off the map .... im clearly not in favor of that...like any killing or destruction...
but why would he say this... jerusalem is the most holyiest place in the world for many arabs ...

i think his message was edited in english that way
he probably told "the Israeli regime need to be wipe off the map"
that i would understand...
its easy to turn up side down a message like this
why would he give Israel the reasons to strike ....
so i beleive he did say wipe off the israeli regime not the country itself
and the zionist regime edited the text before CNN took it

[edit on 7/19/2010 by Ben81]

When he talks about wiping israel off the map, he's not referring to the location, he's talking about genocide, wiping all jews off the face of the earth...

Jaden

Why do you people keep spreading this false translation of what Ahmadinejad said? Can't you read? Or do you just take someone else's misinterpretation at face value, without a critical thought, accept it unquestioningly, and then regurgitate it as the gospel truth without ever having checked your facts?

It's the old fish story all over again. One fool gets it wrong and the rest follow in kind.

Neither of you have got it right. Can't you take a minute to check your facts before continuing to spread this tripe throughout the world via the internet through your ATS membership? Are you deliberately spreading disinformation? If not, don't you realize that countless others will read your post, and being as lazy as you, accept it at face value, and then spread it to countless others as the truth. Shame on you!

[edit on 7/19/2010 by dubiousone]

Originally posted by Showtime
reply to post by Sky watcher

 

Hi, you said: "Obama is evil and will leave Israel to fend for themselves because Russia will show that it has suckered the U.S. and Israel. Russia along with Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, Ethiopia and Sudan will counter attack Israel."

I am interested to know where you came up with these countries because I can confirm these countries will be involved according to a source that most people would rue on this board.

Let me know, and if we dont have the same source, but two different legitimate sources, then it will prove almost undeniably that it will happen.

That list not only makes no political sense but, no military sense either. Russia does not have the logisitcal ability to do much more than try and bomb Israel, something they would have no intrest in doing anyway. Turkey? That is even more unlikely than Russia. And again Turkey does not have the abliity to operate a force of any size further than just beyond its borders. Sudan, Ethiopia and Lebanon have zero abilty to project any kind of force. And while Syria does have a large military it is also old and and no match for the IDF. That is if they could ever get past the Golan Heights. I think it is important to understand the ability of a nations ability to project power before people start coming up with war scenarios.

reply to post by dubiousone


wow .. you have closed your mind on the subject already

what part do you not understand that the president of Iran
did quoted first "Israel regime need to be wipe off the map"
why would he say to the world news that he will go wipe off the map another country.... THE STORY WAS EDITED... translanted in english without the word regime...
remove that word and there you have it ...story changed in all sens
your PR propaganda statement number 1
Israel modified the statement so they can go make war on Iran
and the USA state media picked it up like credible news after it was translanted to the real news they wanted to publish
imagine if the word regime was still in the statement
Israel would look bad...

why is it so complicated to you to understand that many statements in the news today are edited to favor one side
you just prooven yourself that you can easy swallow many lies
if you open your eyes ..your mind... your heart... your soul
you might finally found the truth on some Dark plans that first you though they were good... WRONG

guess what YOU HAVE BEEN MANIPULATED... BRAINWASHED to actually beleive in those lies that will result in more war crimes

[edit on 7/20/2010 by Ben81]

Actually Iran can perform a brilliant tactical strike and cause the US to reconsider supporting Israel. You have to think logistics and tactics. Think about what is supporting all US troops their? Iran must use asymmetric warfare techniques.The carriers and its aircraft are the only lifeline the US troops have overseas.

1) Sink US carriers by lobbing 300 missiles at one carrier in a simultaneous attack, no Aegis can stop a simultaneous 300 missile attack

2) Now with US air support cut off, ground forces have no backup in irak and afghanistan and the iranians can lob missles at the bases and rain them down day and night and draw US forces out of their bases. Having drawn them out of their bases, the US forces are now subject to ambush by the host countries.

3) Attack food and fuel ships through the Straight of hormuz. The straight controls 40% of the worlds oil. Sink one carrier carrying millions of gallons of oil and you send a clear message. Attacking US food and fuel supply lines you can starve and kill the soldiers and decrease morale. An army that has decreased morale will be less capable of fighting.

4) Any air supply drops for troops will be met by sam attacks. If a refueling aircraft is nearby in an attempt to do an air strike, that refueling aircraft is a higher priority than the fighters it is fueling.

5) Mine all land routes that any invasion forces might use to get into iran

6) Put aluminum foil radar reflectors on hundreds of seagulls and release them into the straight of hormuz to confuse the AN-SPY-1 radar before the carrier attack.

7) Place a few subs in the middle of the straight to provide an element of surprise. And mine the heck out of the straight.

Originally posted by Ben81
reply to post by dubiousone

 

wow .. you have closed your mind on the subject already

what part do you not understand that the president of Iran
did quoted first "Israel regime need to be wipe off the map"
why would he say to the world news that he will go wipe off the map another country.... THE STORY WAS EDITED... translanted in english without the word regime...
remove that word and there you have it ...story changed in all sens
your PR propaganda statement number 1
Israel modified the statement so they can go make war on Iran
and the USA state media picked it up like credible news after it was translanted to the real news they wanted to publish
imagine if the word regime was still in the statement
Israel would look bad...

why is it so complicated to you to understand that many statements in the news today are edited to favor one side
you just prooven yourself that you can easy swallow many lies
if you open your eyes ..your mind... your heart... your soul
you might finally found the truth on some Dark plans that first you though they were good... WRONG

guess what YOU HAVE BEEN MANIPULATED... BRAINWASHED to actually beleive in those lies that will result in more war crimes

[edit on 7/20/2010 by Ben81]

You apparently agree with me.

I have not closed my mind nor have I been BRAINWASHED, though I'm not opposed to having clean and fresh neurons with a sparkle of Spring.

It was a mistake to direct my comment toward you together with Jaden.

My words were directed at Jaden who wrote: "When he talks about wiping israel off the map, he's not referring to the location, he's talking about genocide, wiping all jews off the face of the earth... " which is nonsense. Ahmadinejad never said or even implied such a thing.

What Ahmadinejad said, translated into English, was "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

He did not suggest genocide of jews or Israelis nor did he use the word "map".

A short Google search is all it takes to find the true translation of this often mis-quoted statement.

[edit on 7/20/2010 by dubiousone]

reply to post by dubiousone

ah ... little misscomunication issue happened here lol
i see we do agree
yes any genocide is evil ...
Palestinian in Gaza are now victims of genocide
and the worlds does nothing ... until Turkey
the president of turkey will be a hero in futur history
the only UN member that stood up against evil

as long Israel think in their head that they are superior to others... it will never change...
lets remove all the nukes(gift from the usa) form israel
maybe after that .. they will start talking REAL peace
and stop thinking like a evil dictatorship that wants to dominate the world...

even after we remove the nukes from them ... they still have Obama on their dialup phones that will do whatever being told on behalf of israel

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


im sure Iran did evaluate all possibility
50% and more of what you just said
have probably already been implemented
and as soon the first strikes comes ...
the other 50% will go ahead

i dont think they have sleeped while the US his circling them from the air, sea and ground... they are completely surounded
i would see that like somebody tie up to a chair on a full loaded room with bombs in it waiting to go boom and not trying to escape from the room
since that exemple is illogical .. Iran i beleive is 100% prepared to any scenario now ... if they go down with an attack... they would want to strike a massive blow in revenge...

To any one who said Iran is developing Nweapons....

Intelligence Agencies Say No New Nukes in Iran
Secret updates to White House challenge European and Israeli assessments.
The U.S. intelligence community is reporting to the White House that Iran has not restarted its nuclear-weapons development program, two counterproliferation officials tell NEWSWEEK. U.S. agencies had previously said that Tehran halted the program in 2003.

www.newsweek.com...

The "Wipe Israel Off The Map" Hoax
What Ahmadinejad really said and why this broken record is just another ad slogan for war

www.prisonplanet.com...

Israel's plans for Gaza: Holocaust upon the Palestinians!
Israel's Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai has provoked outrage after threatening Palestinians with a "holocaust" but the same media who obsessed about Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's "wipe Israel off the map" misquote are scurrying to defend Vilnai's disgraceful comments.

www.indymedia.org.uk...

The Sunburn - Iran's Awesome
Nuclear Anti-Ship Missile
The Weapon That Could
Defeat The US In The Gulf
By Mark Gaffney

www.irandefence.net...


So much for zionist propoganda


[edit on 20-7-2010 by Danbones]

[edit on 20-7-2010 by Danbones]

reply to post by Aristophrenia


Hogwash, it is well known and suggests you know little or nothing about the conflict. No one is sure of the total casualties during the Iran-Iraq war, but estimates range from 500,000 to 1 million dead, 1-2 million wounded, and more than 80,000 prisoners. There were approximately 2.5 million refugees, and whole cities were destroyed. The financial cost is estimated at a minimum of $200 billion. Some say 10's of thousands under 17 were killed. It is a fact that Iraqi forces backed by the white house mowed down waves of children. They did indeed fire until barrels melted and or ammunition was depleted but they were still overran. A war with Iran will be a war of attrition, and that is why we are not openly on the ground in Iran.

You can say its untrue till you’re blue in the face, but it doesn’t change a thing.

www.globalsecurity.org...
"Lacking the equipment to open secure passages through Iraqi minefields, and having too few tanks, the Iranian command again resorted to the human-wave tactic. In March 1984, an East European journalist claimed that he "saw tens of thousands of children, roped together in groups of about twenty to prevent the faint-hearted from deserting, make such an attack." The Iranians made little, if any, progress despite these sacrifices. Perhaps as a result of this performance, Tehran, for the first time, used a regular army unit, the 92nd Armored Division, at the Battle of the Marshes a few weeks later. "

"Iran stopped Iraqi forces on the Karun River and, with limited military stocks, unveiled its "human wave" assaults, which used thousands of Basij (Popular Mobilization Army or People's Army) volunteers. After Bani Sadr was ousted as president and commander in chief, Iran gained its first major victory, when, as a result of Khomeini's initiative, the army and Pasdaran suppressed their rivalry and cooperated to force Baghdad to lift its long siege of Abadan in September 1981. Iranian forces also defeated Iraq in the Qasr-e Shirin area in December 1981 and January 1982. The Iraqi armed forces were hampered by their unwillingness to sustain a high casualty rate and therefore refused to initiate a new offensive. "

"In 1983 Iran launched three major, but unsuccessful, humanwave offensives, with huge losses, along the frontier. On February 6, Tehran, using 200,000 "last reserve" Pasdaran troops, attacked along a 40-kilometer stretch near Al Amarah, about 200 kilometers southeast of Baghdad. Backed by air, armor, and artillery support, Iran's six-division thrust was strong enough to break through. In response, Baghdad used massive air attacks, with more than 200 sorties, many flown by attack helicopters. More than 6,000 Iranians were killed that day, while achieving only minute gains. In April 1983, the Mandali-Baghdad northcentral sector witnessed fierce fighting, as repeated Iranian attacks were stopped by Iraqi mechanized and infantry divisions. Casualties were very high, and by the end of 1983, an estimated 120,000 Iranians and 60,000 Iraqis had been killed. Despite these losses, in 1983 Iran held a distinct advantage in the attempt to wage and eventually to win the war of attrition. "

You’re the one coming off as an idiot here. You may have been instructed about the war, but it seems you have received a very biased assessment of it.

DENY IGNORANCE!!




[edit on 20-7-2010 by Donkey_Dean]

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


Where will we see open civil war

Iran or the USA.

Irainian people know the CIA is at work in Iran and the american people are sick to the back teeth of zionist control from the bankers that bribe every politician in site.

it only takes one flask of biological agent to kill millions of people and even if iran is unable to using such methords i'm sure the zionists won't let this option go to waste.

1.4bn muslims are not going to sit back and allow geniside just so a few million jews can get to heaven early and a lot of white people will not suport the theory that one terrorist state that has nukes is able to tell another state what it can and can not do.

The UN has become a total joke and is not doing it's job and this is why we are where we are today.

i really wonder how it feels to have anti gravity machine that can take you anywhere on this planet and not think about anything else such as war
think the possibility that can be achieved, one could bring all the hot babes on your private island and let everybody else go ka boom ! i dream of that day when i have anti gravity ! so i can let you silly people have your wars


in the mean time i would like these countries to disappear and sent to mars get of my planet earth !

Albina - they already have a country called Turkey go home !
Kosovo they already have a country called Turkey go home !
Turkey they already have a country called Turkey go home !
Pakistan - they already have a country called Turkey go home !
Entire of Africa - not even 1% contribution to world progress
United States - major war contributer
France - European traitor ,loves Arabs,blacks, but not Europeans
United Kingdom - just because the weather blows
Australia - what annoying language its not even English

and every Arab Muslim country on this planet should also be included and sent to mars, when you all get to mars, please have a big major war and forget about us earthly people, thank you

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
Actually Iran can perform a brilliant tactical strike and cause the US to reconsider supporting Israel. You have to think logistics and tactics. Think about what is supporting all US troops their? Iran must use asymmetric warfare techniques.The carriers and its aircraft are the only lifeline the US troops have overseas.

1) Sink US carriers by lobbing 300 missiles at one carrier in a simultaneous attack, no Aegis can stop a simultaneous 300 missile attack

2) Now with US air support cut off, ground forces have no backup in irak and afghanistan and the iranians can lob missles at the bases and rain them down day and night and draw US forces out of their bases. Having drawn them out of their bases, the US forces are now subject to ambush by the host countries.

3) Attack food and fuel ships through the Straight of hormuz. The straight controls 40% of the worlds oil. Sink one carrier carrying millions of gallons of oil and you send a clear message. Attacking US food and fuel supply lines you can starve and kill the soldiers and decrease morale. An army that has decreased morale will be less capable of fighting.

4) Any air supply drops for troops will be met by sam attacks. If a refueling aircraft is nearby in an attempt to do an air strike, that refueling aircraft is a higher priority than the fighters it is fueling.

5) Mine all land routes that any invasion forces might use to get into iran

6) Put aluminum foil radar reflectors on hundreds of seagulls and release them into the straight of hormuz to confuse the AN-SPY-1 radar before the carrier attack.

7) Place a few subs in the middle of the straight to provide an element of surprise. And mine the heck out of the straight.

I think what you are saying could be done.

But if Iran did do some sort of first strike on the US Forces / their Carriers, the decision to hit back with a few Nukes may be made pretty quickly!

I'm not sure what will happen out there, who will hit who but something has got to happen, it's gone too far now and all the relevant forces are in place to literally say "GO"...!

My bet is Israel will get hacked off waiting for Obama sitting on his backside not doing anything and Israel will strike first, at night.

Then the US will have to chime in and support them!

Just my thoughts ......!

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
Actually Iran can perform a brilliant tactical strike and cause the US to reconsider supporting Israel. You have to think logistics and tactics. Think about what is supporting all US troops their? Iran must use asymmetric warfare techniques.The carriers and its aircraft are the only lifeline the US troops have overseas.

1) Sink US carriers by lobbing 300 missiles at one carrier in a simultaneous attack, no Aegis can stop a simultaneous 300 missile attack

2) Now with US air support cut off, ground forces have no backup in irak and afghanistan and the iranians can lob missles at the bases and rain them down day and night and draw US forces out of their bases. Having drawn them out of their bases, the US forces are now subject to ambush by the host countries.

3) Attack food and fuel ships through the Straight of hormuz. The straight controls 40% of the worlds oil. Sink one carrier carrying millions of gallons of oil and you send a clear message. Attacking US food and fuel supply lines you can starve and kill the soldiers and decrease morale. An army that has decreased morale will be less capable of fighting.

4) Any air supply drops for troops will be met by sam attacks. If a refueling aircraft is nearby in an attempt to do an air strike, that refueling aircraft is a higher priority than the fighters it is fueling.

5) Mine all land routes that any invasion forces might use to get into iran

6) Put aluminum foil radar reflectors on hundreds of seagulls and release them into the straight of hormuz to confuse the AN-SPY-1 radar before the carrier attack.

7) Place a few subs in the middle of the straight to provide an element of surprise. And mine the heck out of the straight.

So many things wrong here but, lets start with Iran being able to hit US carriers with 300 missles. They not have this capability, period. Iran naval plans have anti ship missles on small boats, the hope is that they can catch unescorted enemy warships and try and overwelm them with small ships launching anti ship missles. Carriers are out of the question but perhaps some smaller warhip without support. They also have barges with anti ship missles along the coast on the hope they will be harder to find and take out then the land based ones.

The only chance they would have of doing something like this would be to get a sub in close and hope the fleets anti submarine people are asleep at the switch. Not likely but, lets just say they manage to take out all the US carriers in the Gulf. US forces are not cut off from air support. The US has access to airbases all through out the Gulf States (all of which do not like and fear Iran), Iraq, Turkey, Afganistan and Pakistan. So any notion that the US would be cut off from air support is not going to happen.

Irans war plans include mass missle attacks on the Gulf States. This is why those states have been spending more on anti missle systems, improved airforces and better naval capabilities design to assist the US Navy in operations again Iran in the gulf. It is also why the UAE and France agreeded to place a French Naval base with ground and air support in the UAE last year.

Iran would also hope to mine the Gulf but, US has been tracking this since the Iran Iraq war when it was an issue.

Irans plan is this. Make in known a US attack on Iran will lead to attacks on Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf States. The fear that creates among them causes them to resist US strikes on Iran unless they feel Iran will indeed have nukes. In that case they will support attacks on Iran.

Of course we also need to be more realistic about what we are talking about here. A strike agains Iran would not include an invasion. It would be one against command and control, air defenses and then any facilities that support the creation of nukes. For the time being even this is not something anyone is going to do.

I don't think there is a 'credible military plan on Iran,' by the way. But, then, there wasn't a credible plan for the aftermath in Iraq, either, and that didn't stop them.

There won't be an attack on Iran now. She'll achieve nuclear parity with Israel.

It isn't just Israel. Turkey and Saudi Arabia are urging a "military option" be considered by the USA; the arabs have no love for the persians, and do NOT want a nuclear armed Iran any more than Israel does.

BTW: an icecube has a bigger chance of surviving in hell than the Iranians do of inflicting damage on a US Navy Fleet.

Originally posted by paraphi
Everyone seems to be willing the US to attack Iran, as if it is merely a matter of when. There have been a number of threads on these Boards hypothesising and speculating with the same old doom-laden message of inevitability. No one seems to be facing the facts that the reality is that the US and / or Israel will not attack Iran.

Proof please.

Originally posted by paraphi
Is there any concrete evidence that US policy is shifting towards that of a belligerent with regards to Iran? No.

Are you sure? In 2001, Bush listed Iran on the axis of evil. Now, all the talk which has been picked up from Bush by Obama is how Iran sponsors terrorism, how Iran's nuclear programme is a concern, how they might have nuclear weapons. And then we see sanction after sanction.

That's fairly belligerent towards Iran, as is having soldiers in two countries that border Iran: Afghanistan and Iraq.

Convenient, no?

Originally posted by paraphi
The fact is that the US will seek to avoid conflict with Iran, especially any conflict which has no support from the UN / friends (e.g. the UK) and which will leave them isolated and perceived as the aggressor / occupier. The US has proactively worked with the EU and sought a common approach with China et al in isolating Iran. The US will not wish to disrupt the new-found consensus which has seen UN sanctions.

Like Iraq?

The UN will only go so far being led by the nose-ring on this before they pull up and realise the US-Israeli game.

Will they be fooled twice? Really?

And then the US and Israel administrations will be out on their own, with perhaps a few hangers-on.

Originally posted by paraphi
The US is many things, but they are not stupid and know that an attack against Iran would be a catastrophic mistake and shelve any chance of Middle East progress for decades.

Never, ever underestimate human stupidity, especially when it comes to administrations driven by greed and the desire to vanquish so-called foes for geopolitical and geostrategical reasons. This qualifies for the US and Israeli administrations, and others in history.

Originally posted by paraphi
It is not a question of whether the US would win because all (except the grossly misinformed or deluded) know that Iranian chances of surviving a week against the US military is zero.

Yes, just like with Iraq and Afghanistan, we know. Wait a minute...

The problem here also is the belief by warmongers is that the US military-industrial complex is unbeatable.

Quite wrong. Every empire falls, some are lucky, realise the game is up, and go gently into the night to rise as new nations.

Others? They fall, they crash and burn.

Originally posted by paraphi
Israel will defer the Iranian politics to the US as they cannot attack Iran in any sustainable way - look at the map and the distance between Iran and Israel. The US will keep Israel tame and on a leash. Israel has enough problems of their own to sort out and will not embark on a fool’s errand which will only give fuel to Hezbollah et al.

Never underestimate the Israeli government, tame is not a description that should be applied to them.


And the US administration, should it wish no war, may find that leash snap and wrap itself around the proverbial throat of the handler, as the monster on the end of the leash dashes off to spill blood.

Originally posted by paraphi
The US (and the World) can play the long game, and will do so. Why flatten Iran when the regime has already shown the world that it is precariously placed and only maintains its domestic standing through internal oppression. Even a nuclear armed Iran can be contained and as the ante gets progressively raised so will the pressure on Iran and the consequential domestic implications.

Never underestimate impatience, especially with the failure of the anti-government protestors.

Originally posted by paraphi
So, all you doom mongers, wishers of death and destruction and armchair generals beware. Your Fantasy War will remain just that - a fantasy.

Regards

This is not about doom mongering, wishing death and destruction and armchair generals.

Those are the warmongers.


This is about facing reality: That the governments of this world, including the US and Israeli administrations, often can not be described as having 'common sense'.


I commend your optimism, and at times I am fearful of it, because you believe in wise governments, in sensible governments.

I don't see it with the US and Israel administrations, not with these tensions about.

[edit on 20-7-2010 by Regensturm]

Originally posted by Ben81
Palestinian in Gaza are now victims of genocide
and the worlds does nothing ... until Turkey

gen·o·cide    /ˈdʒɛnəˌsaɪd/ Show Spelled[jen-uh-sahyd] Show IPA –noun the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

Really? Then why are approx 1.5 million Palestinians living in Gaza (and growing at a rate of 3.422% a year...)?

Not even close to genocide - If Israel wanted to commit genocide in Gaza it could very easily do it in a single day...


Or they must have forgotten to take notes during WWII, because they really suck at it...


[edit on 20-7-2010 by CommandoJoe]

reply to post by CommandoJoe


ok sorry let me rephrase my self
its more complicated these days to make a genocide
UN is there... but many in UN are also corrupted
this genocide in Gaza with all the WMD used on them
no chocolate allowed ... excrement sewer from the jews..
each day they go spill it on palestinian gardens
each day an olive, garden plantation are destroyed
each day they are opressed killed, tortured, attacked, imprisoned
each day they are treated has subhuman
each day they go destroy 4 generations old palestinian familly house because there are "illegal"
and for what else ... rockets thats usualy explode on an open field doing no damages ?
this is no excuse... only the brainwashed will accept this excuse
look what they done to Gaza in the last war
1500 killed (90% of them are women and children)
15 killed on the side of the IDF were killed(10 of them by their own fire)

THE NEW TACTICAL GENOCIDE OF TODAY ARE SLOWER AND MORE PAINFULL

hope you can see that soon before you excuse the IDF
you will be part of those warcrimes if you dont see the truth
its people like you .. are you some sort of PR from them of what

the IDF = GENOCIDIAL EXTREMIST TERRORIST EVIL MANIACS MILLICE
they are no army.. thats why when they go on foot .. they cant go far
the only solution is with their pussy airstrikes

[edit on 7/20/2010 by Ben81]