F-22 VS Su-30...... who would win?

I think that there should be a weapons mud-pit discussion board. It seems like several of the people (they tend to be the same handfull of people) take a lot of this stuff way too personal. Oh and my opinion on this: the F-22.

[edit on 6-20-2004 by nyarlathotep]

The F-22 is a much superior fighter then the Su-30. It beats the Su-30 out in pretty much everything except agility.

Originally posted by Kozzy
The F-22 is a much superior fighter then the Su-30. It beats the Su-30 out in pretty much everything except agility.

and "multifunctionality" f22 air to ground cabability is really crappy.

hehe,yes,you can put plasma generators to anything )) these aircrafts could be more stealthy but this technology has one big weak point - enemy pilots don't need radars to see them,such aircrafts will look on the sky like bulbs from a christmas tree )))

so yeah - it would be a really difficult thing to miss something like that

you know the F22 may be better but I am starting to doubt that the Americans will field the plane in large numbers. With the fact that American gen-4s are already very powerful, and the astronomical costs of the wars, I don't think that the political resolve exists to replace the F15 and F16 just yet.

I am betting that the JSF will find some increased roles as an air superiority fighter, probably the first major mod, as it would probably be cheaper than building a full fleet of F22s.

In the same breath though I think the Russians will push back their timetable a bit too, once the costs of developing their gen-5 comes through.

I think that the world is probably going to be stuck in the gen-4 phase for a while longer.

~Astral

US just don't need great number of these fighters.Especially now.But first of all f-22 are just coming to a service.I think that the first part of these fighters would be something about 300 planes and it will be reinforced after some years with another 400-500 planes.It's enough to win air superiority in any war.

Originally posted by gattaca
US just don't need great number of these fighters.Especially now.But first of all f-22 are just coming to a service.I think that the first part of these fighters would be something about 300 planes and it will be reinforced after some years with another 400-500 planes.It's enough to win air superiority in any war.

yeah right, they can barely afford 200 now, and with jsf now costing about 71 million $,

The USAF has a total requirement of 224 aircraft and the first operational wing of F/A-22 Raptors will be based at Langley AFB in Virginia, eventually replacing F-15 Eagle aircraft.



cost too much, unproven flying computer, low multipurpose capabileties.

Its not meant to be a good air to ground aircraft its main role is air dominance to take out other airplanes. the jsf and our current airplanes will provide the air to ground support that's why they work in pairs the F-22 takes the airplanes out and the F-35 drops the bombs. And once the F-22 has proven itself in combat the air force will get more of them.


[edit on 20-6-2004 by WestPoint23]

gattaca

What the people wanted to know is if Su-30 will be good against F-22.

Su-30 is an export that is in China and India.

Out,
Russian

yeah right, they can barely afford 200 now, and with jsf now costing about 71 million $

,

hey...do you really know what is going on with EF???pilots say that it's too dangeruous plane for flying!!!! After these comments UK wants to sell their 50 future eurofighters even NOW - bevere they get it!!!!


and new russian fighter just don't exist.....

su-30 could be a good enemy for f-15,f-18 but not for f-22...

you are talking a horrible bull..t


and to russian:

no,su-30 won't be a difficult enemy for f-22.su-30 wasn't constructed to fight with crafts like f-22.of course,su-30 can win if there will be a good and lucky pilot but generally f-22 are much more better.

su-30 has many other advantages for example it's very cheap (the price is really good for that quality) but don't compare that good plane with abolutely revolutionary and new f-22 because it's different class

[edit on 21-6-2004 by gattaca]

I think that if the F22 fire a couple of AIM 120 undetecet is possible that the SU 30 has no chance but if the Su 30 come in range to dogfight with the F22 this one has finished its career.....
Even if a AIM 120 misses there are high probabilities that the SU 30 discover the position of the F22 and can fire a couple of IR long range missile in slave mode..........
Bye

The Su-30 with its manuverability can evade missiles plus when it knows an F-22 is in the area it could perform an acrobatic move that can fool the doppler radar and "voila" the Su-30 no longer exists on the radar screen.

Plus if the F-22 uses active radar to spot the Su-30 it reveals its position, unless it uses a passive radar which relies on the fact that the Su-30 should use its active radar so the F-22 is only stealthy when blind: not very good for an air to air fight.

So if the Su-30 turns off its active radar and ECM it can only spotted by the F-22 with an active radar or heat signature ( short range signaling a dogfight which is in another terms a death sentence for the F-22)

It's only a matter of tactics to counter the F-22's stealth

Good wishing but the F-22 can fire about 6 missiles before the sukhoi can even be in range to fire on the raptor so it has no chance.


[edit on 21-6-2004 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by Bl00D_Th0rN
The Su-30 with its manuverability can evade missiles

Missiles can make much harder turns than any plane... not forgetting pilots in them.

And thrust vectoring missiles can really make 180 degree turns so dogfight isn't anymore so simple:
www.raytheon.com...
So counting on only evading of missiles isn't an option.
And those slow speed maneuvers just make you sitting duck for incoming missile.

So if the Su-30 turns off its active radar and ECM it can only spotted by the F-22 with an active radar or heat signature

Su-30 doesn't have any IR signature reducing so it shows much farther than Raptor, so in EMCON it has advantage if both of them are in equal position.


And about radar, it's true that you can detect radar emissions much farther than that radar can detect you, but I think that modern radars' detection range of non-stealth planes is so big that it's much outside range of your missiles when detecting you.
And about RWR, it can tell you the direction of threat but what it can't tell is distance of it.

And "zeroing" dopler shift works against radar which uses dopler shift to distinguish targets from background.

and to russian:

no,su-30 won't be a difficult enemy for f-22.su-30 wasn't constructed to fight with crafts like f-22.of course,su-30 can win if there will be a good and lucky pilot but generally f-22 are much more better.

su-30 has many other advantages for example it's very cheap (the price is really good for that quality) but don't compare that good plane with abolutely revolutionary and new f-22 because it's different class

[edit on 21-6-2004 by gattaca]

As you see I didnt start the thread and I really do think F-22 would win...

Well when it will become part of the airforce

Out,
Russian

As you see I didnt start the thread and I really do think F-22 would win...

Well when it will become part of the airforce

Out,
Russian

I have something what could be interesting for you.RSK MiG Resumes Work on Project 1.44.

in my opinion it's much more interesting then battles between su-30 and raptors )

www.royfc.com...

Originally posted by E_T

And thrust vectoring missiles can really make 180 degree turns so dogfight isn't anymore so simple

Yeah provided you can see what's behind you: F-22 has a forward facing radar and the IR missiles like this one are pointed forward and can't see what's behind them. And the Su-30 has a rear-facing radar and strangely enough some missiles are pointed to the back

Su-30 doesn't have any IR signature reducing so it shows much farther than Raptor

But some Russian IR missiles have a range exceeding 40 Km which is 4 times longer than the range of most of the american IR missiles

And about RWR, it can tell you the direction of threat but what it can't tell is distance of it.

Yeah this is sufficient to fire a passive-radar missile and to close in for a dogfight.

Originally posted by Bl00D_Th0rN
Yeah provided you can see what's behind you: F-22 has a forward facing radar and the IR missiles like this one are pointed forward and can't see what's behind them.

IR missiles don't require radar lock (which would also warn enemy), they can lock to target after launch.
And missile's inertial navigation uses data from helmet sight to turn to direction of it. (every high of-boresight missile have to be able to lock after launch)

Yeah this is sufficient to fire a passive-radar missile and to close in for a dogfight.

Wrong, passive-radar missiles require constant "illumination" of target by launchplatform, meaning that launching fighter have to keep noise pointed toward target and keep radar in ST mode tracking only that target whole flight time. (and which causes every "warning light and buzzer" to go off in target aircraft)

Anti-radiation missiles are those which home to radars. (althought at least AMRAAM can home towards aircraft's radar jammer radiation)

the mig 1.44 is a long way and i mean a long way from production if it is produced the project has been on and off for a long time

[edit on 22-6-2004 by WestPoint23]

Why are the people still posting the things like - F-22 is crappy in close combat? It is (or will be) THE BEST also in close combat because it carries missiles internally, has thrustvectoring and has very powerfull engines. And of course also the airframe - it was CHOSEN instead of F-23 because of it's better maneuvrability.
THE F-22 ANGLE OF ATTACK WILL BE 60 DEGREES WHILE SU-30 HAS 33 DEGREES.
The only one aircrafts that can beat it in close combat are Su-37 or MAYBE Berkut and both will probably never produced.
So face it F-22 will be the BEST in BVR and the BEST in close combat.


And about the crappy air-ground capability - it can still carry it's JDAMs internally and remain stealth - that's something that NONE current aircraft can do, and it can also carry four big air-ground weapons under the wings.

[edit on 23-6-2004 by longbow]