Everyday I check the News I SEE THE DEATH OF OCCUPIERS

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Compared to the rest of the world we are the most free. That says something about the world, not us.

How much is oil worth? This is what we are doing in Iraq. This is the wrong path for our nation and for the world. This is not because of 9/11, this behavior on our part is what motivates people to commit acts like that which happened on 9/11/2001.

The world is changing, it's going to change massively, and in the end, this sort of thing will be gone, hate will be gone, greed will be gone, environmental destruction will be gone, but getting there can take different paths.

One path involves massive human suffering, our own military fighting us, massive volcanism, earthquakes, starvation, people getting cut-off from their families, most of us dying.

The other path involves massive changes, but in ways where they are beneficial rather than harmful to us. Volcanism happens but away from population centers, we know about it in advance, and it happens in a more peaceful manner that we actually benefit from.

I have seen both of these paths in dreams. We do not want to take the ugly hate path people, we really don't. The amount of suffering that will ensue is unimaginable if we continue down this path.

What we put out is what we're going to get back. If we put out hatred, we're going to get hatred back. If we destroy the environment, it's going to destroy us. If we're not loving of the our neighbors, our neighbors will hate us; if we have no respect for other life that we share this planet it with, it will have no respect for us.

If we love each other, our next door neighbor and our fellow human being on the other side of the planet and the other life we share this planet with, if we show respect for this planet that is our home, then it will provide us what we need.

There is no shortage of resources really, there is plenty of oil even right here at home, it's not the cheapest but it's way cheaper than $120/barrel to extract, this whole world situation is a greed and hatred game. This is the wrong path, we have to change.

And this is not a choice that requires we live in squaller and poverty; resources have been generously provided to us; the problem is that people who want to control us only want resources developed that they can readily control.

We have plenty of energy available to us from the sun and the earth, from the wind and the water and it's no longer more expensive than oil or not available in the quantities needed. It is less expensive, these alternate clean renewable sources, than the cheapest of fossil fuels, coal. But even in the realm of fossil fuels, we have a 300-400 year supply of coal, gasoline can be made from coal and if we replaced ALL of the oil we import with coal derived fuel it would only require a 50% increase in coal mining. Of coarse this isn't the right thing to do, we should be going with clean renewables, but the point is we don't have to go to foreign lands and kill and maim children to meet our energy needs, we have been provided with everything we need right here at home.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fd6ed284dbda.png[/atsimg]

Source: www.eskimo.com...

War is wrong.

Your attitude would change if that was you daughter or grandaughter on that table.

Empatize.

This isn't just "a war" it's the sanctioned murdering of fellow human beings under the guise of "Homeland security".

So gullible.

[edit on 18-7-2010 by ofhumandescent]

Originally posted by jerico65
What, the true nature of war from what you see in pictures? Trying living it, then maybe you'll have a dog in the fight of this discussion.

Does one need to live through rape to condemn it? Child molestation? A mugging? Burglary? What high standard must one cop to in order to earn the right of saying that war is wrong? Your signature regarding people violating human rights to secure freedom combined with your dialog above suggests to me that you'd suppose one must be a rapist or a mugger to be a competent member of a jury judging such.

They say the best weapon is the one you never have to fire.. I prefer the weapon you only need to fire once. Thats how dad did it ! Thats how America does it ! ...and its worked out pretty well so far.


Cheers



[edit on 18-7-2010 by superluminal11]

reply to post by oozyism


What is so hard to understand here? As long as you have those who think they’re too superior to live in peace with the rest they see as inferior, and as long as their greed is stronger than the desire for peace, you will always have this warfare dynamic. But it’s not their fault, they were created that way. It's the law of the jungle my fiend. Let’s just hope the intelligent designer didn’t think that colonialism was a recipe for peace, although I understand that these hard lessons may be a necessary evil for the cruel school.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


I must ask you, were you in Iraq? I can only go off of what I have read and seen, and there are many questions about the entire Iraq and Afganistan situations that still have not been cleared and most in the positions that are there can not or will not answer. My understanding of Iraq, and many people are still trying to figure out is if Iraq is better or worse since the removal of Sadam Hussain. And the same is true about Afganistan, are the people better off now that the taliban is no longer in power or are the worse off? These are questions that should be answered as it will either state that what is going on is for the betterment and more humane aspect of such, or is it time to cut and run from both countries.
This I believe needs to be discussed more than anything as it would give a new perspective to both conflicts.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
Those soldiers went over there.

Those Iraqi babies didn't come over here.

Hmmmm.....what about the "Iraqi babies" that are killed when an insurgent sets off a car bomb in a crowded market? Or are you going to give them a pass like many do on ATS, because he wouldn't be setting off those car bombs if US troops weren't there.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
Soldier securing my freedom

That's a laugh.

Did you laugh at that picture of the dead Soldier? Get a big chuckle out of that, feeling morally superior to him, thinking you're smarter than him, not falling for "TPTB and their propaganda"?

reply to post by JohnnyElohim


We're not talking about rape or theft, we're talking about war, and many people on ATS, people that have never heard a shot fired in anger except on their Xbox, seem to enjoy climbing up on their soapbox and preaching to everyone what war is like.

Until you've actually been in one, you don't have a freakin' clue.

reply to post by oozyism


If you don't defend against evil and radical Islam is evil, they take over. It's that simple. Same reason we have Police and put dangerous people in jail. You can't let them run loose or they hurt people. Look at Mexico for an in your face example of lawlessness.

There simply is no real Afghanistan, as its been occupied by the Taliban and Al Qaeda since the Russians left. It had no government. It only had criminal gangs run by Warlords and Terrorists. The people who were there were actual Slaves. There was a time when freeing an enslaved people was a good thing. Until the progressives decided they don't give a damn about anybody but themselves that is. Perfect targets for a person who wants to trick them into something as stupid as allowing a Theocracy to enslave everyone.

We all know you want all countries under an Islamic Theocracy, so your motives are suspect. I don't think some who starred your OP know your real motive.

As a part Indian I could say the same about Christians..
So could Iraqis and Afghanis
based on history not paranoia

This cannot be called a "war" under any terms. I agree with the OP 100% and its a real cluster ****.
I posted a letter to the our local paper here in Ontario with the simple question of " Why are we there?".


Our full email and name was included and to this day we are still waiting for the answer to our question.

Any solid answers will be much appreciated here as we have lost a hell of a lot of troops.

Not to mention renting German tanks, which adds to our woes that have come to 18.1 billion US/Canadian dollars take your pick because it is the same amount almost.


How can we break international law like this and get away with it is beyond me.



I, Like most here in Canada say get the hell out of there now and toast the Canadian Government ....( Harper)
Regards, IWinder

Well, I doubt if 9/11, Bin Laden, Houssein, Islam has really got something to do with it.... Was Bin Laden really behind 9/11 ? Did Iraq really had chemical weapons of mass destruction ? And does Iran really make a nuclear weapen ?

In the end I think the only reassons are money, oil etc.... You know it's the power behind the govnerment, the real power... the Rockenfellers, the rottchilds... it's all about simply earning more money... And they don't give a damn about how many innocent's die.

Afcourse it is really sad to see all those young soldiers and innocent people, women, children die... back then in all the wars we thought and now fighting.. in Iraq, Afghanistan, and for sure in the next ones like; Iran ?, Israel ?, Korea ? Where does it end ?

I am really wishing that I or we could end this, but how ? A prayer to the lord ? A signed petition to our govnerments ? A march on the streets ? A new woodstock ?

Meanwhile to all those soldiers who died on duty and to all those other innocent man, women, children;

May they rest in peace...

Japan in the 90's is how a government should be run no communism no socialism just a free prosperous society with no war involved.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ofhumandescent

 

Compared to the rest of the world we are the most free. That says something about the world, not us.

Your freedom/ignorance comes at a price, the price is the world.

Empires usually have a lot of freedom, what ever freedom means in this case, because the people who are gaining the rewards of the evil deeds will not tend to revolt, but the people who are being prosecuted, murdered, bombarded, destroyed, raped, tortured, land, property, resources stolen, etc, those are the people who will revolt, and those are the people 99.9% of the time called terrorists.

Do we disagree?

reply to post by sdcigarpig


No, I was never in Iraq.

Yes, in my opinion the government is corrupt. But so is America.

Those children pictured are now dead. Their souls released to another dimensional level.

But, it is wrong (IMHO) to take anothers's live force.

Sorry...............that is my own personal moral code. Wrong, wrong, wrong, on so many levels opinion.

What goes around comes around and that goes for not only individual karma but group karma.

Killing people is wrong in my book.


[edit on 18-7-2010 by ofhumandescent]

I'm not sure where the OP is coming from. I don't know what nationallity he is, and really it doesn't matter.

Our young men and women are deceived and are fighting for an idealology that doesn't exist anymore. They are taught (indoctrinated) into believeing that they are dying for their country. They are not told that their country is ran by the corporate world and not the government. They are not told that they are fighting for the almighty dollar or to advance an agenda that has nothing to do with "liberty and justice for all".

If Pearl Harbor was not a false flag, that was the last legitimate war we were in. But this day and time I have my doubts about that.

If there is a legitimate attack on our soil by an armed force then IMHO that is a legitimate reason to respond. But this speculation of a terrorist agenda that seems to be vague at best is no reason for our kids to be dying.

There is an enemy of the United States. It operates in the shadows. It even charges us to conduct it's covert war. It is slowly, yet more boldly choking us to death everyday. That enemy, as you well know, are the powers that be in our nation's capital....D.C.

Our southern border is being over ran by criminal forces backed by a corrupt government, but we can't do anything about that.

Well, this is turning into a rant and I don't know where to stop.

I just wish our young men and women were not dying for nothing and I wish we had our country back. It's a sad state of affairs

sadly,

Seeashrink

[edit on 18-7-2010 by seeashrink]

I support the soldiers (being an ex soldier myself) however I DO.NOT support the war, the deaths and the destruction of another country.

Bring the troops home, let the M.E. figure out what they want in life and let them deal with it. It's how every other nation on earth had done things.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by oozyism

 

If you don't defend against evil and radical Islam is evil, they take over. It's that simple. Same reason we have Police and put dangerous people in jail. You can't let them run loose or they hurt people. Look at Mexico for an in your face example of lawlessness.

There simply is no real Afghanistan, as its been occupied by the Taliban and Al Qaeda since the Russians left. It had no government. It only had criminal gangs run by Warlords and Terrorists. The people who were there were actual Slaves. There was a time when freeing an enslaved people was a good thing. Until the progressives decided they don't give a damn about anybody but themselves that is. Perfect targets for a person who wants to trick them into something as stupid as allowing a Theocracy to enslave everyone.

We all know you want all countries under an Islamic Theocracy, so your motives are suspect. I don't think some who starred your OP know your real motive.

There is a very good reason why so much money is spent for the propaganda machine to flourish, and to shove its rhetorics in your face, or down your throat.

Read what you are saying:

1. Taliban are Afghans.
2. Taliban was the government of Afghanistan. Even you agreed to it until they said no to your pipeline deals lol.
2. Taliban came to power because there was no law & order, little girls & boys were being raped every day, drugs flourishing everywhere etc:

how Mullah Omar first mobilized his followers is that in the spring of 1994 Singesar neighbors told him that a warlord commander had abducted two teenage girls, shaved their heads and taken them to a camp where they were raped repeatedly. 30 Taliban (with only 16 rifles) freed the girls and hanged the commander from the barrel of a tank. Later that year two warlord commanders killed civilians while fighting for the right to sodomize a young boy. The Taliban freed him.[30][31]

3. Al-Qaeda never invaded Afghanistan.
4. Everything which the Taliban rid from Afghanistan came back under the US occupation, hence:

Afghanistan, the world's second corruptest nation

America is allowing this occur even when people worry about corruption more than their security:

Yet many living in this southern Afghan city say the insurgents are the least of their worries. Far more pernicious is the murky nexus of warlords and corrupt government officials whose rule some compare to mob bosses.

www.csmonitor.com...

Afghanistan the world's biggest drug lab, the Taliban abolished drugs:

Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar, collaborating with the United Nations to eradicate heroin production in Afghanistan, declared that growing poppies was un-Islamic, resulting in one of the world's most successful anti-drug campaigns. As a result of this ban, opium poppy cultivation was reduced by 91% from the previous year's estimate of 82,172 hectares.

Wikipedia

Under the occupation, drug production has increased back to its original size and proportion, the same size as was, before the Taliban's rise to power.

il.youtube.com...

Don't talk about damn women's right when women are becoming victims of addict. Watch the whole video.

Law and Order has vanished, heck how can there be law and order when there is so much corruption?

I bet you can rape and get away with it, I bet you can murder and get away with it, I bet you can mass murder and get away with it.

You have no idea why Afghan resistance has chose to resist. Don't even pretend the Taliban didn't accept defeat, the Taliban did accept defeat, and they did give America, Democracy, Capitalism a chance, but after 5 years of invasion, corruption went high (therefore injustice flourished), drug production went high, puppet regime was installed, Karzai was an American man, we all knew that from the start.


But hey, who gives a damn right, you don't live there, I bet if you did, you would be running around with AK47 and a mask trying to kill as many invaders as you could.

People resist for a reason, but Westerners have never resisted before, heck the German Jews didn't even fight the prosecution against them, only a small number did.

Americans are the only ones who stand for their rights, but they won't understand until other greedy, oppressive empire divide and conquer them, that is when they will understand why people resist.

reply to post by oozyism


Nope. I get what you are talking about. However, most oil goes to China from our conquests. My own theory is that we are feeding the dragon for as long as we can until we have a means to not need oil. It's basically debt payment in the form of stealing resources for the one you owe debt to. It's the only logical reason China still buys our debt. All in all, however, those nations end up better a generation from now. Believe me, I do not believe this is the way. Rule by example, not force. For them, the ends justify the means. In the end they will be more civilized and better off. I just cry for the death that is payed to achieve it.

reply to post by mobiusmale


That argument would make sense IF the US and their allies actually WANTED the war to stop....but they don't.

The corporations are making millions of dollars from the Afghan war and made millions from Iraq too.

It also keeps alive the fear of 'fictional' terrorists (ie. people paid by the US government to kill their own civilians) so they can pursue all the laws they need - under the false pretext of terrorism - to completely erode liberties and human rights and roll out their agenda of imposing martial law on the US.

See how wars and national defence bring in MEGA bucks to the corporations:

From wiki:
The United States has the largest defense budget in the world. In fiscal year 2010, the Department of Defense has a base budget of $533.8 billion. An additional $130.0 billion was requested for "Overseas Contingency Operations" in the War on Terrorism, and over the course of the year, an additional $33 billion in supplemental spending was added to Overseas Contingency Operations funding.[4][6][7] Outside of direct Department of Defense spending, the United States spends another $218–262 billion each year on other defense-related programs, such as Veterans Affairs, Homeland Security, nuclear weapons maintenance, and the State Department.

By service, $225.2 billion was allocated for the Army, $171.7 billion for the Navy and Marine Corps, $160.5 billion for the Air Force and $106.4 billion for defense-wide spending.[8] By function, $154.2 billion was requested for personnel, $283.3 billion for operations and maintenance, $140.1 billion for procurement, $79.1 billion for research and development, $23.9 billion for military construction, and $3.1 billion for family housing.[9]

In fiscal year 2009, major defense programs also saw continued funding. $4.1 billion was requested for the next generation fighter, F-22 Raptor, which will roll out an additional twenty planes for FY 2009. $6.7 billion was requested for the F-35 Lightning II, which is still in development. Sixteen planes will be built as part of the funding. The Future Combat System program is expected to see $3.6 billion for its development. A total of $12.3 billion was requested for missile defense, which includes Patriot CAP, PAC-3 and SBIRS-High systems. $720 million was also included for a third missile defense site in Europe. $4.2 billion was also requested to continue the aircraft carrier replacement program. With the addition of AFRICOM, $389 million was requested to develop and maintain the new command.[10]

Historically, defense-related spending in the United States is at its highest inflation-adjusted level since World War II. Per-capita spending is at approximately the same inflation-adjusted level as the peak of the late-1980s Cold War military build-up and the 1968 peak of the Vietnam War. In his Fiscal Year 2011 budget, President Obama has proposed a 4% increase in Department of Defense spending, followed by a 9% decrease in FY 2012, with funding remaining level in subsequent years.[4]

Now ask yourself what are they purchasing with this money, and from whom.

Now go do a bit of digging and see who runs the corporations which benefit from this astronomical budget. See also how countries bribe other governments with sales of weapons.

With all these billions rolling into the coffers, who cares if a few million sheeple are killed in the process? Especially when, according to something I read a while ago, each soldier's life is insured by the government for $1million.