Monsters, Evil, Creature or People?

I was looking at what people would perceive as evil. Awful faces, witches, distorted, disfigured, they all have in common EVIL! When we were kids we were taught to be scared. So we would either behave, or even eat your veggies. We were told stories, saw movies, read books, of the horror, and evil's... of beast... or man?

We have our depiction of the devil, demons, ghosts, but we all think that they are easily recognizable, because who cant spot the evil woman, she should have a wart, with hair on it, or the man with the boils on his face, they're the evil ones. We think of beauty and we think peace, tranquility, everything the opposite of evil.

I propose that the real reason that we have all of this hate, destruction, death, is because we can't recognize evil. My definition of evil, is someone that can cause harm without regard to another, no remorse, murder, rapist, etc.

I was watching 300 ( along time ago), and something always stuck with me, I watched the special features, and they said that the bad guy/traitor, in fact was not deformed, but after the atrocities that he had committed, and the story passed on, people felt better to show how awful he was and easier to recognize as "evil" by others, by making him disfigured.

I thought to myself, really? What he did wasn't enough? Why would the human mind only recognize evil in the truest form only if it has a physical flaw, and it seems the bigger the flaw, the more evil. I believe that this is the further indoctrination, to be able to dupe us more easily, by traits that would be VERY easy to recognize.

Think of the traits of the so called evil people. Can you think of someone who has committed one of these atrocities and wasn't deformed? Or fit the profile? Was it hard for you to picture right away? I know it was for me. Thanks for listening, I would love to hear if anyone else had a hard time with this one. It was hard to write, I had to really think about what evil meant, and no matter what the outcome of humanity, unless we see actions and not looks, we will always fall for the wrong person, for what our brain may be telling us is the right thing.


Peace to you...

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


well I guess ill be the first to post. I use to be considered evil in my first deployment for the things that I have done. Depending on someone's point of view, soldiers are fighting for freedom, but for Iraqis we are seen as invaders. The perception of evil doesn't always have to have a face but an action. I am a good person now since I have learned the error of my ways and continue to do good even if it is not seen here. I do agree that society has a way to paint a target evil when in reality it really isn't but since when can humanity think for itself and not follow a same belief system that was taught from the dawn of time?

$&F

[edit on 18-7-2010 by Stop-loss!]

Sweet thread!

I rarely see this level of writing ability on ATS. You did great.

You bring up a lot of great points as well.

This topic reminds me a lot of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis.

It states that connotations of things vary greatly between languages, and these connotations can lead to inequality and discrimnation, all because of the language!

Let me give an example.

White in the english language usually denotes something that is pure, holy, clean, good, etc...
Black in the english language usually denotes something that is evil, bad, tainted, dirty, etc....

The hypothesis goes on to say that because of these connotations, it can lead to subconscious labeling, such as thinking of a black person as "bad" (hypothetically)

So, going back to the OP. I find it to be a remarkable similarity.

Hope I made sense.

-Sol

[edit on 18-7-2010 by SolarE-Souljah]

reply to post by SolarE-Souljah


Thank you very much for the compliment.

I'm glad you bought that up, as a matter of fact that does go hand and hand. I has been for a very long time, I would assume before we even had language, we had vibrations but they were met with action.

Now we have language, and symbols, that surround us daily, through either art, t.v, or publication. But by the over load we rather our thoughts be given to us, then to figure it out ourselves. When hatred began to spread through language, people didn't get the full effect, I would assume that that is why they had certain types of death penalties done in public.

If you chose the face/race/sexual orientation, and added a crime, you could have people voluntarily persecute an entire people, with or without proof, just a face, and a accusation. Evil comes in all shapes, colors, sizes, and as soon as we see evil blindly, we will never truly see.


Peace to you...

Originally posted by SolarE-Souljah

This topic reminds me a lot of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis.

I need to know now, does this have something to do with
Darmok and jilad at tannagra?

If not then I guess Chakka when the walls fell.

I figured I would throw this in here, this has also happened to women, maybe even more than most. Imagine if you will, if you were taught you whole life that because of "Adam and Eve" woman were at fault?

What do you think the bar would be set for that as far as "evil"? I mean has anyone ever really thought about that? Woman are degraded and have been, for so long. When we see the depiction of Adam and Eve and the garden of Eden, would mentally picture in your head, would be Eve eating the apple, and the apple representing the "downfall" of humanity.

If most people thought about the ingraining of such a psychological scene, with so much representation, what would you think it meant? What were the people that drew that picture was not viewer to really see?

That may in fact clear up a lot of things with women, with where we stand, and how no matter what we do, it doesn't seem to make much difference. The Adam and Eve painting is one of the most wide spread depiction of sin and evil combined, whether you have a religion or not.


Peace to you...

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


History has tried to make us think we are inherently evil. Original sin. Isn't that why many religions don't allow women to be church leaders? What other reason could there be? The witch burnings were another example of keeping the suppression of women. If a woman was a herbalist, or a healer, she must be a witch. Sure, some men were also executed for being witches, depending on the country, most were women. Women were considered more likely to be led astray by the devil, because of original sin.

"We have our depiction of the devil, demons, ghosts, but we all think that they are easily recognizable, because who cant spot the evil woman, she should have a wart, with hair on it, or the man with the boils on his face, they're the evil ones. We think of beauty and we think peace, tranquility, everything the opposite of evil. "

This is sad, because some of the most heinous serious killers in history are fairly good looking people. Talk about false sense of security.



edit to add.

[edit on 18-7-2010 by snowspirit]

I personally do not believe in any objective force of "Evil". Rather I believe that many things we give the label "evil", creatures, monsters, people or actions, are labelled as such in my opinion due to a lack of positive harmony with the natural "source" energies of the cosmos.

Like when you leave a flower to grow in a dark cupboard, the flower lives on if you feed it with water, however it grows weak and becomes yellow, instead of green. As such when you raise a child without the warm positive feelings of love and peacefulness, this child is likely to wear an almost perpetually stern expression on their face, because their hearts have never been melted by the warmth of tender loving care. This could be a reason why many people are considered "ugly" anyway. Not because they have ugly features, but because they do not wear their face in a pleasing way (due to a lack of pleasurable feelings).

Who knows, im just speculating. But last night i stared deeply into the cosmos and found myself feeling intensely humbled by the potency of the light energy above me. Such huge distances, yet still highly visible even through the polluted london atmosphere. And as existential "happenings" as it were, i just find it impossible to not believe our life force on this planet is somehow influenced by the magnificent energy from distant stars.

[edit on 18/7/2010 by DizzyDayDream]

Ted Bundy


was very intelligent and engaging .good looking and a complete psychopath.

I associate evil with the wolf in sheep's clothing ,or like in Little Red Riding Hood
someone or something that appears harmless ,but is in fact evil

I am aware though that most peoples evaluation of evil is not so much that they think ugliness is evil so much as contagious.
They (most people) seem to forgive almost anything done by some one who is (beautiful)

and if someone is ugly anything they do or say will be interpreted as evil

they aren't afraid of becoming evil they're afraid of becoming ugly,Picture of Dorian Grey type stuff

I just made those assertions really broad to make my point very blatant

reply to post by MrsBlonde


That is a very good point, and another way of looking at it. While they both have similarities, the one thing that binds it all together perfectly....deception.


Peace to you...

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


S&F Cool thread

I think "Evil"...can wear any disguise.
But in this society- an attractive looks would be the best allie.
And it's due to several years of brainwashing (like you said- the monster, the evil ugly witch, etc)
Plus the individual incapacity to rebel against- certain train of thought.

It's like those that belive in the evil reptilians, the evil greys... LOL
They look like "monsters"- in the other side you have, the "beautiful nordic race"- which- ohh are the benevolent ones.



Yes, there's a conspiracy in that. But anyway, my point is- evil varies and could never be equated to looks.

Here is a different perspective. Imagine if you will, how woman and girls feel about themselves. Now their are so many things that contribute to low self esteem in our society, but what if the Adam and Eve "sin" scenario, Evil/Ugly scenario, and the people that are suppressing them.

Why is it that woman have been the most degraded, for so many years? We see it all day, we have t.v, magazines, school, jobs, dating, where no matter what we have a flaw. O.k now hear me out... ever wonder why men sometimes date women that are beautiful, but have awful personalities? Have you met a woman that was beautiful, but had an awful personality?

IMO, men date these woman, because its somewhat the opposite portrayal of what most are taught about women. Most women don't act that way, but portray it, because it gives them more attention.

Women nowadays are taught, be weak, your looks will get you everything, but never truly nurturing the true potential in women, because being ugly, or different, overweight, or short/tall, we will never be perfect, but spend lifetimes trying. While destroying our bodies and minds.

When a woman is "ugly" (a societal term), and commits a crime, there is no Lifetime movie, or Nancy Grace interview, its go to jail, go directly to jail. We want to see beauty, we don't care what they do, or who they do it too, as long as your easy on the eyes.

Peace to you...

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


oh this a whole group of issues I've been wanting ti post about myself
I think you make a point though

and good for you for not pretending we've evolved beyond this nonsense

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


You said that Ephialtes, the traitor from the movie 300, was not actually deformed but passed on through history as ugly and disfigured simply because of what he had done. In the movie, Leonidas refuses Ephialtes offer for assistance to his army because his disfigurement makes him unable to keep with the phalanx. So if he wasn't actually disfigured, why would Leonidas refuse him? What was his actual story? I looked it up and couldn't find much about it. Anyone know? Just curious.

some people = monsters

some people have mental diseases, so, there is nothing we can do about it, other than to be lucky to not encounter one of them

but I agree that people can become monsters because of life experiences ... but a lot of them are born thought DNA and other development mistakes ...

thats my "idea" of the subject

but as people may have already said, there is no evil, just different perspectives that in my opinion happen because of these mental problems in some people's brain


[edit on 19/7/10 by Faiol]

reply to post by State of Mind


All I can say about that is that its on the special features section of the movie. If I find anything I will post. BTW when I was thinking about that I was thinking of the men atop the mountain, they were cruel, disfigured, and for some reason, loved money. What would be the purpose for money, if they lived up on a mountain?...unless that was also a metaphor, hmmm I'm going to have to look into that one.

Peace to you...

reply to post by State of Mind


O.k, your right this was hard to find, but this is what I could get.

Ephialtes, who betrays the Greeks, is likewise changed from a local Malian of sound body into a Spartan outcast, a grotesquely disfigured troll who by Spartan custom should have been left exposed as an infant to die. Leonidas points out that his hunched back means Ephialtes cannot lift his shield high enough to fight in the phalanx. This is a transparent defense of Spartan eugenics, and laughably convenient given that infanticide could as easily have been precipitated by an ill-omened birthmark.

www.livescience.com...

What I got from this is that he was still born in Sparta, which means there were other present, its not like the parents knew that he would be disfigured, so they would have discarded him, whether his parents wanted it or not.


Peace to you...

I was wondering if anyone else had an example like the one from the movie 300. I'm sure there's some movies and books. Especially ones for kids.

Peace to you..

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
Ted Bundy


I associate evil with the wolf in sheep's clothing ,or like in Little Red Riding Hood
someone or something that appears harmless ,but is in fact evil

Is harmless good? Is strong evil?

Let's rethink this one buddy.

Just wanted to throw in a bit of random thoughts I had while reading this thread, which I thank you for guys.

First of all, I am not a Bible adept or believer so maybe I am wrong, but wasn't Lucifer described as the most beautiful of angels and so on ? And yet he comes across as a synonym for Evil ? Any thoughts on this ?

And secondly,

Again Lucifer, in the Qur'an, is described as a being having free will which has been punished for disobedience. Now, one could argue that in the views of religion ( religions ?) whomever doesn't comply with the Creator's will ( can Creator be a synonym for Ruler I wonder ?) is EVIL ? And so, is Evil just a term/concept "coined" for us ( the masses) in order to be easily manipulated ? Maybe there is no such thing as evil in the first place, but instead just choices ?

Sorry if this just comes across as babbling, like I said, just some random thoughts that come to pass while reading this thread, if you think I'm babbling please just skip