David Icke on James Randi sex tapes, False Memory Syndrome, Pedophilia, etc.

Originally posted by TheLaughingGod
I don't know how common it is, neither do you. I'm just going off my own experiences, friends and families experiences and famous examples.

Then don't say this:

All of that still doesn't explain away poltergeist activity or entities manipulating the physical world which is really quite common.

You state that it's Really-Quite-Common. If it was really quite common we wouldn't be having this conversation, because people would have encountered these events all the time. Really quite common would be seeing a rainbow. That's really common. Poltergeists throwing chairs against walls are not.

Let me ask you, by the way. What occurred to you that made you a "knower?"

Well, it's not super rare, the more worldview shattering experiences like strong poltergeist activity might be rare but it seems to happen fairly often(in the grand scheme of things) to people from all walks of life, skeptics and superstitious people alike.

Now.. "ordinary", or vague paranormal phenomena, I would say that's quite common.

I have had several experiences,
I don't want to talk about them too much because I don't want to out myself to people I know that visit this site and know about some of my experiences, I'll give you a vague idea of one experience though:

A physical object that wasn't available in my part of the world at that time of the year materialised out of nothing. It was a lucky charm that was given to me by this mysterious entity in my sleep.
He/it came into my room in the middle of the night while I was sleeping and gave it to me.. At least I thought I was sleeping until I woke up, remembered the "dream" and noticed that the lucky charm was real.

1. I was home alone on the second floor, everything locked.
2. Again, this lucky charm was impossible to get where I live in the middle of the winter.
3. This object is rare and very fragile.
4. I didn't already have one, I would have known.
5. If I had one anyway without knowing about it, the object wouldn't have been fresh like it was.

I haven't come up with any rational explanations.. what would you make of it if it happened to you? The lucky charm was a four-leaf clover.

Where was the four leaf clover when you found it?

A more rational explanation for such an object, I would have found, at least, is that it probably was on my clothes and it fell off. Four leaf clovers aren't incredibly rare, and clovers leaves have these little grooves that catch clothing very easily.

On the table beside the bed..

How many four leaf clovers do you think there is in northern Sweden in the middle of the winter?

I didn't mention this, but the entity somehow felt like a family member(which isn't dead, but was in another country at the time), I had that impression in the middle of the night, and I had the same impression but even stronger in the morning.
Me and this person found a few four leaf clovers when we were younger one summer.

The only rational explanation I can think of would be if someone from another country where four leaf clovers grow in the middle of the winter flew from that country to Sweden, broke into my home, somehow gave me the impression that he was a close family member, gave the four leaf clover to me and then disappeared.. all without a trace. No unlocked doors, no signs of a break in.. and that incredibly farfetched explanation doesn't even cover all the bases.

And don't forget that the leaf was 100% fresh, like it had been picked 5 minutes ago.
Hell, even if someone flew across the world with a four leaf clover it would probably dry up a little bit.

Clovers are a rather virulent weed that can be found anywhere in the Northern Hemisphere. The odds of finding a four leaf clover is approx. 10,000 to 1. Rare, not impossible. Sweden is in the northern hemisphere. It is possible that you dragged it in on the bottom of your shoe, or attached to your clothing, maybe your back.

I have to admit, for a 'knower" you have a rather mundane story to provide as conclusive proof of paranormal activity.

I was expecting something involving flying chairs and smashing beds.

reply to post by WolfofWar


You must be joking,
your explanation is seriously lacking.

First off, you don't get weed in the middle of the winter here, you get -25 degrees celsius and meters of snow everywhere. Nothing green whatsoever.. you get brown and yellow grass under all the snow, but you won't see it until Spring.
Nothing but snow and ice would stick on my shoes, and IF a four leafed clover which is impossible to find in wintertime stuck on my shoes it wouldn't be green, fresh AND untouched. It would be totally destroyed.
Your explanation fails on so many levels it's not even funny.

I have to admit, for a "skeptic" your explanation is rather mundane and completely impossible at the same time.
I was expecting Venus, swamp gas and super-hallucinations and all I get is leafs stuck on my clothes.

Consider me disappointed.

And, as I already told you.. I don't want to out myself, some stories are off limit.
Even if I told you about flying chairs and moving beds it wouldn't matter because you could just call me a liar anyway.
Being a skeptic is so easy.. you can tell most people pretty much anything and they'll give it the benefit of the doubt simply because of conformity or because scientific authority says so. There'll always be an excuse people are willing to accept just to not challenge their present views.

reply to post by TheLaughingGod


You don't have to act like a child. Your immaturity shows you probably don't even believe what occurred to you.

I have no information on your incident. You only mentioned a four leaf clover and your location. I have no ability to provide you anything more than you give me. You never mentioned any weather conditions, how would I know?

The moment I try to provide a rational explanation (which is actually a rather common occurrence) you lash out like a spoiled toddler who thinks he is under attack on all fronts.

Now, sit down, take a breath, and talk to me like an adult. You are doing yourself an injustice.

[edit on 8-4-2010 by WolfofWar]

Originally posted by WolfofWar
reply to post by WWu777

 

Don't have it handy. Google is your friend.

I can confirm it's from Randy, it's a rather well known quote actually.

This is simply not good enough. Asked for sources and you put the burden on others? Lazy and ineffectual. If you expect anyone to accept the things you say, back them up with links. Saying "it's well known" begs many questions, like "by whom"? and "on what authority"?

reply to post by rich23


Sorry I just really didn't have the time to provide it at the time, and the time it took for you to post this you would have already had the quote. But since you cried loud enough, I guess I'll do your footwork for you:

Letter to Skeptic Tank by James Randi

I'm not doing any more than that, because I really don't care enough about Randi's sexual preferences to defend or support them. If you go to his site and go to the archives you should find several responses to the case.

The simple fact that in 14 years no charges have ever been filed speaks more to the validity of the charges than anything else.

Originally posted by WolfofWar
reply to post by TheLaughingGod

 

You don't have to act like a child. Your immaturity shows you probably don't even believe what occurred to you.

Yeah.. I don't believe what occured to me?
Uhm what? Talk about patronising.. yeah, you know me better than myself.

Originally posted by WolfofWar
I have no information on your incident. You only mentioned a four leaf clover and your location. I have no ability to provide you anything more than you give me. You never mentioned any weather conditions, how would I know?

Stop lying!
Let's see:

Originally posted by TheLaughingGod
How many four leaf clovers do you think there is in northern Sweden in the middle of the winter?

Originally posted by TheLaughingGod
The only rational explanation I can think of would be if someone from another country where four leaf clovers grow in the middle of the winter flew from that country to Sweden

Originally posted by TheLaughingGod
A physical object that wasn't available in my part of the world at that time of the year materialised out of nothing.

Originally posted by TheLaughingGod
2. Again, this lucky charm was impossible to get where I live in the middle of the winter.

Originally posted by WolfofWar
The moment I try to provide a rational explanation (which is actually a rather common occurrence) you lash out like a spoiled toddler who thinks he is under attack on all fronts.

I feel that it's ok to be irritated when you're patronised by a poster that doesn't even read my replies.. surely you can't have read them all or you would have noticed when I mentioned winter multiple times.

Originally posted by WolfofWar
Now, sit down, take a breath, and talk to me like an adult. You are doing yourself an injustice.

Again with the patronising..

Here, let me paint you a picture:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f9f894e53e89.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by TheLaughingGod


Ah yes, I must have missed one word in your post. I do apologize, obviously your childish rant is absolutely due.

Originally posted by WolfofWar

Currently there is no evidence that any paranormal experience can be validated as true.

No evidence you're not prepared to ignore, I dare say. However, there are many studies and metastudies that demonstrate that statistically significant effects are observable. Here's the relevant conclusion from the abstract of just one, from the University of California's statistics department:

Using the standards applied to any other area of science, it is concluded that psychic functioning has been well established. The statistical results of the studies examined are far beyond what is expected by chance. Arguments that these results could be due to methodological flaws in the experiments are soundly refuted. Effects of similar magnitude to those found in government-sponsored research at SRI and SAIC have been replicated at a number of laboratories across the world. Such consistency cannot be readily explained by claims of flaws or fraud.

anson.ucdavis.edu...

There mountain of evidence is burden on those who claim to be able to do something beyond known human capacity. They are unable to explain and prove their claims. But that's not what this thread is about, so let's not get sidetracked.

You've already shown yourself to be a goalpost-mover par excellence when it comes to burdens of proof. This disqualifies you from pontificating about other people doing it.

You are a denier yourself.

I only deny what is lacking in evidence. I simply want proof, something nobody has been able to provide to me.

As usual on ATS, here we have someone who can't distinguish between evidence and proof. Since Karl Popper's Logic of Scientific Discovery, it's been recognised (among students of the philosophy of science, if not among scientists themselves, more's the pity) that you can't prove a scientific theory because you can't do an infinite series of experiments. You can only disprove a theory. Theories have utility insofar as they handle data. Of course which data are deemed worthy of notice is another way for pseudoskeptics and debunkers to rubbish theories that might have some utility but offend their narrow view of what is and is not possible.

There IS evidence. You guys deny it due to cognitive dissonance.

There really isn't. Nothing credible other then eye-witness testimony has ever come up in my experience or any credible research.

Mmm. Stanford Research Institute, not a credible institution? That's only one example.

Many prestigious and not so-prestigious Universities have had or still currently have a parapsychology department of research. After 60+ years since the trend started no evidence has come up that stands up to peer review or scientific scrutiny.

Not according to the metasurvey quoted above. Effects are small but nonetheless statistically significant.

Randi appeals to authoritarian smugness rather than a genuine spirit of inquiry. Your posts suggest you're his ideal audience.

Originally posted by WolfofWar
reply to post by TheLaughingGod

 

Ah yes, I must have missed one word in your post. I do apologize, obviously your childish rant is absolutely due.

One word!?

Again:

Originally posted by TheLaughingGod
A physical object that wasn't available in my part of the world at that time of the year materialised out of nothing.

Originally posted by TheLaughingGod
2. Again, this lucky charm was impossible to get where I live in the middle of the winter.

Originally posted by TheLaughingGod
How many four leaf clovers do you think there is in northern Sweden in the middle of the winter?

Originally posted by TheLaughingGod
The only rational explanation I can think of would be if someone from another country where four leaf clovers grow in the middle of the winter flew from that country to Sweden

I wrote all of that before you replied sayin' my boots could have dragged it in. So what's the problem?


Nothing else to add except calling me childish yet again?

I want a rational explanation that takes the winter weather and the freshness of the clover into account.
Don't give up, keep trying!
Let's 'Deny Ignorance', if you come up with a reasonable explanation I'm all ears, I believe in the quest for self-correction.

reply to post by rich23


The SRI institute, while having done a lot of very fascinating research, and shouldn't be entirely discounted, have had major issues with falsification of experiments, improper procedures and failure to adhere to consistent experimental procedures. I wouldn't entirely ignore what work they have done, but they are hardly reputable.

Originally posted by theLaughingGod
I wrote all of that before you replied sayin' my boots could have dragged it in. So what's the problem?


Nothing else to add except calling me childish yet again?

Yes, I apologize, I didn't read that part. I missed a sentence. I already apologized one, are you going to continue to berate me? Kind of childish, don't you think?

As for the clover, like I said, I can hardly really give any explanation because I was not there, I do not know:

-Your mental state
-The conditions around your environment
-The history of what type of plants are around you
-Whether you are even being truthful.

This is why subjective experiences cannot be used as evidence .There are far too many "what ifs" that occur in your story to take into account.

Originally posted by WolfofWar
Yes, I apologize, I didn't read that part. I missed a sentence.

More like four..

Originally posted by WolfofWar
I already apologized one, are you going to continue to berate me? Kind of childish, don't you think?

Not really, you lied, I have to correct you since you seem so reluctant to own up to your mistakes:

Originally posted by WolfofWar
Ah yes, I must have missed one word in your post.

First it's one word.. now it's a sentence. In reality it was FOUR.

Originally posted by WolfofWar
-Whether you are even being truthful.

And there we have it.. remember, I called it:

Originally posted by TheLaughingGod
Even if I told you about flying chairs and moving beds it wouldn't matter because you could just call me a liar anyway.

Why did you ask me about my experiences if you were just gonna fall back on it being lies anyway?
So predictable..

This discussion is a waste of time.

reply to post by TheLaughingGod


Listen man, I don't know what more you want. I said I misread and apologized the moment you pointed it out. You insist on bringing it up again and again. Yes, I misread you, obviously, again, I apologize.

I do agree though, this discussion is a waste of time, because you keep on dragging us back into the same thing over and over again now.

David Icke is pretty much a crackpot and anything he says should not be taken as gospel.

That doesnt mean that his work isnt a fun read - But imo it should not be taken seriously.

Originally posted by WolfofWar
reply to post by rich23

 

The SRI institute, while having done a lot of very fascinating research, and shouldn't be entirely discounted, have had major issues with falsification of experiments, improper procedures and failure to adhere to consistent experimental procedures. I wouldn't entirely ignore what work they have done, but they are hardly reputable.

As usual, no references are cited. For all I know, you could be making this stuff up (or more likely, simply repeating slurs you've heard from Randi and his ilk). Please provide concrete instances where this has happened.


[edit on 7-8-2010 by rich23]

reply to post by rich23


Marks Kammann, August 1978. "Information transmission in remote viewing experiments" - Nature issue 274


Calkins J, October 1976. "Comments on 'A perceptual channel for information transfer over kilometer distances: Historical perspective and recent research'" - IEEE 66

Gardner M, October 1975. "Concerning an effort to demonstrate extrasensory perception by machine" - Scientific American issue 233

David Icke writes 2nd rate fiction. I have read a couple of his books and they are very "wordy" with little substance. And WolfofWar, who wizzed in your cornflakes? You are not dicussing things you are just attacking people. Chill out it is all good.