Chicken and the egg riddle solved.....maybe

I thought this was fun and interesting. While scientists were studying proteins in the cevelopement of egg shells inside of chickens, they found the chicken contained the protein in itself.

This study must be for argicultural purposes because they are trying to see if they can speed up egg making inside the chicken.

But inadvertantly, they may be on the path to figure out which came first, the chicken or the egg. That it may be the chicken, who had to have the proteins to make the eggs.

I think we have to see how far back egg layers go from bird to dinosaur and maybe even further to find the real answer.


article

It pretty much has to be the chicken. Otherwise, how could the egg be kept warm enough to hatch?

The chicken and egg problem is more figurative than literal. An egg coming first doesn't make much sense unless the circumstances under which it came to be were extremely fortuitous or we want to split hairs about what a chicken is.

So there it is! Eggs definitely first!

Good job OP

In terms of evolution, it has to be the egg.
Somewhere back along the line, thanks to mutation, there would have been a first chicken hatched from an egg laid by a protochicken.
Define the moment when one turns into the other, and you have your first chicken egg.

reply to post by DISRAELI


That is what I always thought too. That you had the random egg that popped out the chicken.

But this article made me realize that my line of thinking was wrong. chickens are birds, birds come from dinosaurs. Did the first dino come from an egg? Or did eggs come later?

*laughs*Signals cracked me up.

[edit on 14-7-2010 by nixie_nox]

I can only really think that the mollusk as the most ancient phylum that does lay eggs. So maybe we can say that the precursor of the mollusk that lay eggs had come first. hahah. But mollusk do come in small sizes.

reply to post by nixie_nox

Well, if you're going to include eggs in general, instead of limiting it to chicken eggs- but eggs in general preceded the existence of chickens, which makes "eggs" even more the right answer.
It all depends on the exact terms of the question.

If you're going to expand it beyond chickens- if you define eggs as having hard shells, did they come slightly later than reproduction in general?

Chicken 1st, because God made all of the animals...

2nd line truth.

reply to post by CanadianDream420


How do you know God didn't come from an egg?

The chicken first.

1. Thought - Intent
2. Action - Forces engage
3. Ether - Transition from mold to tangible
4. Manifest and then continued

Peace

the chicken is the creator of the egg it can reproduce the egg many times over again, and like a factory it has the necessary tools to care for the egg, till it’s time to hatch. If you say the egg comes, first fine! But if the egg comes first then what can keep the egg safe and warm so the chick inside can grow and finally hatch?

the egg would’ve never been able to hatch in a world without first being nurtured/protected

Originally posted by nixie_nox
I think we have to see how far back egg layers go from bird to dinosaur and maybe even further to find the real answer.

That's a good analysis.Chickens didn't come from chicken eggs, they came from dinosaur eggs. So we have to find the creatures that those dinos came from and see if they had eggs. Reptiles "invented" the eggshell:

Eggs and Their Evolution

Females of all vertebrates produce eggs, but the reptiles "invented" the eggshell -- a device that could keep the egg from drying out and allow reproduction away from water (or, at least, from extremely moist environments). With the exception of the platypus and echidna, mammals provide the developing embryo with a suitable environment within the mother's womb. The other major group of reptile descendants, the birds, not only have continued the reptilian tradition, but have evolved eggs of an improved design in a wide variety of sizes, shapes, colors, and textures.

So the birds improved on the egg design from the reptiles/dinosaurs.
So which came first, the chicken or the egg? Maybe it's a trick question and the answer is the reptile.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by CanadianDream420

 

How do you know God didn't come from an egg?

I like this star for you!

But couldn't an egg form from a multicell organism?

reply to post by Sippy Cup


I think to ever truley be able to answer the question, people need to decide on 1) does the discussion end with the first actual chicken/egg
2)does it stop with the first egg..period.

if it is just the chicken species itself, it may be the chicken.

But if you include all egg layers, expecially the more scaley predecessor of the chicken, it may be the egg. Because a mutation somewhere made a bird/chicken as opposed to a feathery dinosaur.

But then, you have to ask, what about the missing link? The dinosaur chicken hybrid? Would they be considered chickens?

reply to post by nixie_nox


Oh my.
Is this primitive thinking still in existence? Baffling. Simply mind-blowing.
Every living thing on Earth came from another species. We're a potpourri of alien life.

Once we acknowledge this then; science, anthropology, religion and the likes, can unite! And then we can collectively try to figure out:....why?

We're too separated. We need to unite as ONE species,. We need to get rid of all these compartmentalized barriers so we can find out our Truth as Human Beings!

Funny how the theory of creation by intelligent design answers this question so easily. God created the chicken first.

While evolutionists are still chasing their tails.

Just an observation.

The egg came first. To explain it logically:
A chicken, is born from an egg.
Evolution suggests that species evolve, therefore, somewhere down the line something mutated inside an egg. That egg gave birth to a chicken. And so on and so forth.
The questions true meaning is rather philosophical and more of a "stuff to think"-idea. However if I had to make a choice based on rational thinking, that would be my choice.
The Egg.
Then again, I guess one could always argue that they were born at the same time. At least, if we look at the whole "abortion is murder" argument and use that as an example.

reply to post by nixie_nox


actually its obvious that through evolution the egg comes first what do i mean by this?

lets say dinosaurs some of them anyway evolved into birds or began to appaear with feathers which i believe some dinosaurs did evolve into birds not all jus certain species that was able to adapt

this is the nail in the coffin right here! take for example the hammerhead shark its parents werent hammerheads it was born mutated basically a freak amongst its peers but guess what happened that mutation overtook that species until all were hammerheads!

the chicken was born a freak amongst its peers a genetic mutation that took over until todays chickens were common have a nice day

reply to post by FearNoEvil


This was not meant to be yet another creationism vs. evolution debate. *yawn*

But thank heavens the science minded are always searching for answers, or you wouldn't have inventions like the internet or vaccines or cures for diseases. Everyone would simply sit around putting it on "God's" hands.

reply to post by metalholic


I already addressed this =)
It depends on your definition of chicken. If you mean the riddle only regarding actual chickens, then you could say it was the chicken, as the scientists in the article discovered that the chicken created the egg. But if it is whether the creature or the egg came first, then that would mean a lot more discovering regarding pre-bird ancestors, and who laid the first egg.

But as a poster pointed out, algae create their own shells. Could they be considered the first eggs?