Islam the LAST HOPE FOR PEACE!!!

1. Quran is a revelation, not a scientific book.

2. Quran is the only thingy I have ever heard of, which is self testable. For example, it makes a claim: God knows everything.
And the test for that saying is within the Quran. You read other passages from the Quran and see if that statement passes the test. Does the passages in the Quran come from a being which knows everything?

3. Islam means peace, GOD states in the Quran how that peace is achievable. Let me elaborate:
We human beings have been at war with each other since we can remember, since as far as our written/verbal history can remember.

Throughout the history there is conclusive evidence that we had multiple GODS, that we believed in different GODS.

Not once in history was there a time when all human beings started believing in one GOD.

The Quran repeatedly states there is one GOD, the Quran puts a huge importance on that message, and states believe in one GOD.

If we human beings were smart enough, we would have for once in our damn history give this a try. Give it a try, what have you got to loose?

Believe in one GOD, everyone of us, see what the out come is.

That is just an over view of what we are suppose to do to gain peace. There are other important aspects also, for example in the Quran GOD has qualities, in other words, GOD has names. For example the MOST merciful, the MOST just.. etc..

If we believe in GOD with such qualities, we will have a perfect system which will allow us to finally have the previliage of using the Quran at its maximum potential.

Let me elaborate:
"GOD is the most just"
That means justice is important, then if you think you will come to the conclusion that, you can't gain justice without truth, which leads us to the next quality of GOD hence:
"GOD knows all"

Ultimately all those qualities, under one GOD leads to peace.

If anyone is willing to discuss this issue with me I'm deeply interested.

And I want to know what other devoted Muslims, and Muslims who are more culturally devoted think about this (yes I'm talking about Sunnis and Shias etc).

Also would be appreciated seeing non-Muslims get involved and giving their opinions in regards.

[edit on 14-7-2010 by oozyism]

fair enough

you teach this to the millions of nutters out there who are preaching and livining "extreme islam" and make them believe how you do and people will respect islam

until then islam will always come across as "violent" and "intolerant"

simples

[edit on 14/7/10 by Smiler74]

Originally posted by oozyism
1. Quran is a revelation, not a scientific book.

I only had a problem with the first one.

This is why...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'll talk about the scientific evidence first. The Quran talks about some of these proofs in allegorical terms, because the language was not developed enough to say them in truly scientific terms. For instance, the universe is claimed to be continually expanding:
51:47

We constructed the universe with might, and We are expanding it. The earth's rotation is explained by:

[27:88] When you look at the mountains, you think that they are standing still. But they are moving, like the clouds. Such is the manufacture of GOD, who perfected everything. He is fully Cognizant of everything you do.

And again the earth's rotation is explained by:

[7:54] Your Lord is the one GOD, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then assumed all authority. The night overtakes the day, as it pursues it persistently, and the sun, the moon, and the stars are committed to serve by His command. Absolutely, He controls all creation and all commands. Most Exalted is GOD, Lord of the universe.

The night is always persuing the day when you look at the earth from space. Also the Quran specifies that the early stage of development for the Universe was gaseous:

41:11 Then He settled to the heaven, while it was still gas, and He said to it, and to the earth: "Come willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."

Furthermore, the Big Bang is talked about in the Quran, where everything came from a SINGULARITY:

21:30 Did those who reject not see that the heavens and the earth were one mass and We tore them apart? That We made from the water everything that lives. Will they not acknowledge?

Also this verse brings up the fact that every living thing was created from water. This supports the theory of evolution. Many other times it is said in the Quran that human beings were created from clay. This is an allegory for saying that human beings are made from earthly materials, not from "fire" or energy, like the "jinn beings".

[15:27] As for the jinns, we created them, before that, from blazing fire

Evolution is explained as a TOOL OF CREATION in the following verses:

71:14 "While He created you in stages?"
71:15 "Did you not see how God created seven heavens in harmony?" 71:16 "He made the moon to illuminate in them, and He made the sun to be a lit flame?"
71:17 "God made you grow from the earth as plants." And also evolution is explained:
29:19 Did they not observe how God initiates the creation then He returns it? All that for God is easy to do.
29:20 Say, "Roam the earth and observe how the creation was initiated. Then God will establish the final design. God is capable of all things." 24:45 God created every moving creature from water. So some of them move on their bellies, and some walk on two legs, and some walk on four. God creates whatever He wills. God is capable of all things.

Also, the embryonic development of a child is explained before science had ever analyzed these things.

23:14 Then We created the seed into an embryo, then We created the embryo into a fetus, then We created the fetus into bone, then We covered the bone with flesh, then We brought forth a new creation. So glory be to God, the best of creators.

The word that is translated as "fetus" is the Arabic word "alaq", which literally means "hanging thing". They didn't have a word at the time for "fetus".

[edit on 14-7-2010 by Gentill Abdulla]

Originally posted by Smiler74
fair enough

you teach this to the millions of nutters out there who are preaching and livining "extreme islam" and make them believe how you do and people will respect islam

until then islam will always come across as "violent" and "intolerant"

simples

[edit on 14/7/10 by Smiler74]

Muslims are defined by Islam, not the other way around, already made a thread about this:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And do you mind if I use your post for future reference?

reply to post by Gentill Abdulla


What I meant by number 1 was:

Quran is not a scientific book, meaning you shouldn't regard it as a scientific book.

We all agree that it does have facts in it, about different scientific topics, but once again, it is not a scientific book.

When people mistake the Quran with a scientific book a huge misconception comes through, that misconception is that people will start judging it in the same manner as a scientific book.

Quran is not suppose to guide us scientifically, but to open our eyes in regards to the unseen, undetected etc. And to warn us, these are all specifically stated in the Quran.

This now your 3rd post on the Subject of Islam and by the way your going your not doing a very good PR job for your religion. Believe me it needs good pr on this site.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Gentill Abdulla

 

What I meant by number 1 was:

Quran is not a scientific book, meaning you shouldn't regard it as a scientific book.

We all agree that it does have facts in it, about different scientific topics, but once again, it is not a scientific book.

When people mistake the Quran with a scientific book a huge misconception comes through, that misconception is that people will start judging it in the same manner as a scientific book.

Quran is not suppose to guide us scientifically, but to open our eyes in regards to the unseen, undetected etc. And to warn us, these are all specifically stated in the Quran.

I don't judge it as a scientific book but there are many things in there that couldn't have been done at that time by any means possible.

And it does contain information that hadn't been known until hundreds of years after.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
This now your 3rd post on the Subject of Islam and by the way your going your not doing a very good PR job for your religion. Believe me it needs good pr on this site.

How can we compete with FOX news

Islam doesn't need PR, all you have to do is read the QURAN, it defends it self, I defend Islam by providing Quranic verses, I never make my stuff up, or bring half of verses from whole chapters, unlike FOX news ofcurse.

reply to post by oozyism


I wonder, just how many of the followers of islam,
actually read their scriptures themselves?I have been
under the impression that their religious leaders recite
islamic scriptures to the masses.

reply to post by Gentill Abdulla


I agree with that, I am well aware of those verses. There are many, from the beginning of the Universe, to the expansion of the Universe, to the creation of earth, even the speed of light is displayed in the Quran hence how fast angels travel.

I believe in God, but I also believe in his son Jesus. I believe there is nothing at all that I can possibly do to save myself. If I have to walk up to the gates of heaven and ask to come in, and they ask what I have done to deserve it, then I will say I have done nothing to deserve it. I know that there are laws that should not be broken, but all humans will sin. Even one sin separetes us from God.

If you believe you can get into heaven all on your own with no help, then ask yourself if you have never sinned once.

I will never convert to Islam, because I believe I need a savior. To convert would be to reject him and to think that I myself can pray five times a day or eat a certain thing or not eat a certain thing or dress a certain way and this will be enough to please God.

While I don't hate you or wish you any harm or wish you were dead, I will remain a Christian.

I don't want to fight you, but I have my own beliefs.

I believe that I have a right to have my own beliefs and that no one should force me to convert.

I understand that by having these beliefs that makes me an infidel.

While I wish those in Islam would be happy to let the infidel to live his own way, I know there are some who believe that we must all be converted or die.

While you may not wish me harm or wish me to die, there are plenty that do.

I do not believe in isolated incidents. Every time there is an attack it is called an isolated incident. I am so tired of hearing that. How many more attacks do we need to prove that it isn't so isolated?

If it is all isolated incidents of terrorism, well, it certainly doesn't feel that way today. It feels like that many Muslims have taken a stance against Christians and nonbelievers.


You may say I am wrong, but I know how it feels. I am simply stating that in my opinion it doesn't feel that way to me.

So anyway, I wish we could all just be allowed to exist. But some people do not think we have the right to exist. This is why there is no peace.

If everyone decided that everyone has a right to exist and believe or not believe, there would be more peace.

If you believe that Islam is a religion of peace, you can begin to show this to the world. Every Muslim can decide that the infedel has a right to live and a right to prosper and a right to exist and a right to believe something different or not believe anything at all.

If you really want to show peace, then start showing it by allowing everyone, even people you hate, to exist.

I do not believe you can do this, however. I don't know much about Islam, but I think you are actually supposed to fight the infedel. So I guess we can't have peace because you have to fight us. But that doesn't seem very peaceful from my viewpoint.

You believe that if everyone converted we could have peace. But you must realize that there will always be people who have a different idea of how to live.

Religions will NEVER bring peace. they haven't for the past 3000 years to think that they would bring peace now is just delusional.

[edit on 14-7-2010 by TruthWizard]

Originally posted by oozyism
» Islam the LAST HOPE FOR PEACE!!!

Are we really that screwed?

Oh dear ....

No, while speaking as a christian, NO organised religion will save us.

My "representatives" on earth are the vatican for crying out loud

Last hope for peace? Make peace in YOUR life.

As long as the world focuses on religions of ANY kind to bring us peace there will never be peace. The only way the world will ever be truly peaceful is if we learn to co-exist and respect our fellow man. As long as people justify their actions with religious doctrine people will always be divided. We must quit relying on some external supernatural entity to bring us peace and find it within ourselves. We can never have peace as long as we look down upon our fellow man because they don't share our religious views or values. Religion only reinforce division.

reply to post by oozyism


No Islam is a false religion perpetuated by men, with a book written by a man, who was high on opium in some cave. By a man who married a 9 year old girl... I have read the Koran, there is nothing in there that is really that important.

Did you know that Mohamed went to the Jews saying he was a prophet, only to be rejected? And then he with his army he slaughtered a lot of Jews in the cities of Mecca and medina? That’s really peaceful there buddy.

These are my opinions as I am entitled to one by my God the US Constitution. I have yet to find a God, but I am leaning more and more to Jesus, as I see things happening today that make since... But then again I could be wrong, we will find out in 20 years or when we die...

Edit to add, I wish you no ill will, but this is what I believe as you belive I am an Infidel and will not see the Kingdom of Heaven and must die... Says so in the koran.

The Qur'an says: "Fight and slay the pagans [Christians] wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush" (Surah 9:5)

2:190-193 Fight in the cause of God, those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out: For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; But fight them not at the sacred Mosque unless they first fight you there; But if they fight you, Slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression."


Just saying so much violence and you claim it is a religion of peace?

[edit on 14-7-2010 by poedxsoldiervet]

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by oozyism

 

I wonder, just how many of the followers of islam,
actually read their scriptures themselves?I have been
under the impression that their religious leaders recite
islamic scriptures to the masses.

Very few I'm afraid, if they did, maybe there wouldn't be the problems in the world that there are.

I have even come across Muslims in my area, who all went to a particular Mosque, who had been convinced that the Quran was only available in Arabic and not in English (none of them spoke Arabic), so had never read it and only gone on what they had been taught in the Mosque.

They wouldn't believe that they could own their own copy in English until I showed them my copy, in English that I bought from Waterstones.

They both immediately went out and bought a copy and after reading it for a while, changed Mosques!

Most people here are well educated and enlightened, don't hold your breath on the Islam thing, it only makes us more suspicous about it and what's it doing to you...

Religions are not based on logic or common sense. Throughout history religion has killed more people than anything. This has been proven over and over again in different times, countries and cultures.

Originally posted by nik1halo
Very few I'm afraid, if they did, maybe there wouldn't be the problems in the world that there are.

I guess so, because the people who converted to islam aber reading the Quran are rather peace loving people. I know two people who were christians and then converted to islam. They're not bad people.

Let me start by addressing your points
1 Agreed it probably was.
2 Big call, but i doubt it.
3 No, islam primarily means submission or to submit.
Also you mention a couple of the 90 odd names of allah
in the quran, the one that should ring alarm bells is The
Great Deceiver!