Should Animals have Rights?

This is sort of part of another thread I was involved in but I thought I might be good to discuss this topic specifically, should animals have rights?

I personally think they should have one right and that is the right to not be subjected to unnecessary pain. Other than that Animals are as far as I am concerned are human resources that we can use as we please, be it for food, fuel, medical/scientific testing or even entertainment. Animals are a resource much like oil and coal and we should use them as such and stop trying to attach human emotions and spirit to them.

I understand that above comment may be very controversial I am effectively saying that animals should be used as man pleases so long as it does not cause unnecessary pain towards the animal, so no more kicking puppies for fun. I regard human rights as being of greater importance I think allot of the effort and passion that goes into promoting and preserving animal rights is misguided. I get really annoyed when i see someone fundraising for Animal charities; I can’t help but ask myself, “think about the good that guy could do for his fellow man”. I think all animal refuges should be demolished and in there place they should build refuges for the homeless and use the animal charity funds to fund the refuge for the homeless.

So what do you all think, should animals have rights and if so what rights and what is your view of animals in general.

They have rights in Switzerland, and it works great. Whenever some retard hurts an animal unnecessarily, or otherwise puts it under unnecessary stress, he either goes to prison or faces a huge fine.

There was a case where some idiots set many cows alight alive (gasoline & matches)...they're spending the next 5yrs in prison after a thorough psych evaluation. I fully agree with the sentencing, especially since it'll be on their permanent register, so every future employer can check before hiring such a nutcase.

I have to agree with you on this one for the most part. "Animals are a resource much like oil and coal and we should use them as such and stop trying to attach human emotions and spirit to them." Well, I agree animals are a resource, but no reason not to empathize with them either as long as it's reasonable.

I think that it should be looked at with the perspective of what animal , where did it come from, and do we need them.

If you get a cat from the pound, it should have rights, there's no reason for someone to take an animal from a pound and then abusing it.

Animals that are not a form of food, such as much of the sea creatures, like whales and dolphins, should have rights. We don't need to kill them to survive. As far a whales, really I shouldn't have to get into that one. Its not like we need their oil for lamps.

As far as farm animals, though we eat them to survive, we can treat them a little better than we do now. The abuses that happen to chickens, pork, cows, etc. is unnecessary. Before we had factories and mass killings of animals, we appreciated our food, and was thankful for it.

I do think that we need the animal agencies, but the money should mostly go to vet's and organizations who can spay and neuter pets, or at least of some form of protection for the unfortunate animals that are here, and how their abuses are continuous today.


Peace to you...

BTW the animals we do eat, we have separated ourselves from identifying with them so much, that now we don't care, or are not aware of the conditions of the same animals that are abuse and that we consume, and are getting sick everyday, if they had rights maybe we wouldn't have so many recalls.

[edit on 12-7-2010 by NoRegretsEver]

What about the right to exist in this day and age? For example the rhino, the tiger, the panda etc. Would it be okay if the last ones just died out or got killed off as long as it wasn't too painful?

You started a thread recently about hate. One group of people hating another because of whatever a few of that group did. Aren't you grouping animal lovers into the same pot together in this thread?

Why do you value humans more than animals?

I have a lot of pets. They know me and they like me. They do have a spirit and deserve some emotion from me. Yes they should have rights.

As for charities I've stopped giving to any, human or animal. I have my reasons.



[edit on 12-7-2010 by wigit]

Animals are a resource in terms of food. However, I 100% disagree with maltreatment and cruelty to animals. They have feelings, look at dogs and cats for example. No one can tell me they don't have emotions. The same goes for all mammals.

It makes me sick to think that people regard any other mammal in less regard than humans. We are mammals all the same and despite the fact that we have a higher intellect, we are just animals at the end of the day.


I seriously hope that you do not endorse cruelty to animals Kevin because that will make me hate you. Sometimes I feel more compassion for animals than I do people.

Hell, daily I move Snails and baby frogs out of harms way. A few days ago I helped a distressed duckling return to its family. I love animals and think they deserve the upmost respect in the grand scheme of things because they have emotions too.

I eat meat and I tend to buy locally sourced, well treated animals. Battery farming makes me sick! I like free range produce and would happily raise and cull my own meat if I had the resources. I would do it as humanely as possible and give the animals the best life as possible in the mean time.

Look at the state of some of the people in this world and tell me they deserve the same treatment... I think not.

I have compassion for the majority of people in this world but the people who endorse battery farming etc deserve to put through the same process as the animals that receive that treatment.

As I write this I get angrier and angrier because I love animals and the way we treat them makes me sick!

Ne'ermind.


[edit on 12-7-2010 by NewlyAwakened]

on saturday night I went out to watch the soccer game and something really sick happend. I was hanging out with friends in front of a little shop where we bought beer when suddenly some sick bastard threw his cat out of his third floor window!!

the cat definitly didn't jump. there were some other people who saw the cat being thrown out of the window.

the cat survived. I called the cops, they didn't care. I tried to knock on those sick bastards door cause I wanted to ask why someone would throw his cat out of the window. they didn't react. they closed their window and shut down the lights. they obviously wanted to get rid of the cat.

so...now I have a cat. it's a little bit injured and we're gonna see a vet tomorrow. my renter doesn't allow cats so it's gonna be difficult, but maybe the cat can stay with us here. at least it would be save. I don't want to bring it to an animal shelter

I hope this is not too off topic.

sorry for my bad english.

[edit on 12-7-2010 by Rohdan]

How can animals have rights when people don't? What are rights? How can you understand rights when you don't understand the context of life that you are given? The rights only apply as they are needed for the function of the greater cause, whatever that may be, so to understand a definition of rights, you need to be able to carry the perspective that it requires to understand the context of the life that is in question.

animals should have human rights. we definitly don't need to eat them. we don't have to kill them to survive (don't get me into some "what if a lion attacks you" stuff please). we kill them because we think we are better. that's kinda sick.

so I really think it should be illegal to kill or eat animals.

reply to post by onequestion


I hope I understood what you meant. But are you saying that if we don't have rights, then nothing/no one should? We may not have rights, but that was of our own doing. I'm sure if animals had a right to vote, or make decisions, they wouldn't choose the way they are treated right now, and they probably would even help humans to have better rights, because they love unconditionally, while we on the other hand, act as we are smarter than them, our lives and rights are more important then yours, come to think of it sometimes humans treat other humans that way too.

Animals aren't even asking for rights (they cant talk) but love should be for everyone, abuse is just not necessary, you don't have to think of a chicken as a person, but that doesn't give us the right to abuse it, even if we eat them, do we have to abuse them before the death?

Peace to you...

I don't believe there is any mythical divide that separates humans from other animals, but then again I don't subscribe to the Judeo-Christian religious dogma that's shaped our worldview in the West and seeped into the supposedly objective sciences. We are all animals, despite our massive egos telling us otherwise.

I'm glad to see that younger generations (in surprising numbers) are widening their spheres of empathy to include other animals, turning to vegetarianism, and caring more about environmental concerns that affect other species. Once upon a time humans believed that people of other races were "lesser animals," to be used as resources, with no right not to feel pain. Then we evolved (or some of us did). We're still evolving away from xenophobia.

I'm disappointed with how little effort we put into understanding the complex languages of other species, while not giving enough credit to those who have been forced to learn ours (Koko the gorilla who learned sign language, Alex the African Grey parrot who could learn words and them form complex sentences on his own to ask for things or describe them, etc). Though what little we've bothered to study of other animals' languages and "cultures," the more it looks like we've been dead wrong about their ability to communicate and empathize.

We've always operated on the assumption (Judeo-Christian) that we are the only animals with that elusive magical thing called a "soul" and therefore the only animals with self-awareness. This has been disproved with experiments on elephants and other animals who recognize themselves in mirrors, as distinct beings separate from others. But the very assumption is just bizarre in the first place. And it poisons everything we do in the sciences.

We keep up that assumption because it's convenient for us, the same way it was convenient for slave owners to see Africans as soulless, or for American settlers to see Native Americans as soulless "primitives" without a right to their land, because their cultures were seen as less civilized. The thought of giving up slaves caused the Civil War. Imagine what the thought of giving up fast food meat would start.

I see red when someone mistreats animals. I'm not a violent person, and the only 2 times I seriously injured another human being was when I got attacked in London last month, and when I saw some idiot almost kill his dog in Greece. Luckily the guy chose to hit first when I confronted him, so the cops agreed it was self defense...still felt good to make sure he can't walk for a few weeks, he deserved that busted knee joint. The idiot chose to pull a knife too, just goes to show that someone who's aggressive against animals will also be aggressive against humans. Animals are often helpless, and can't defend themselves...which is why organizations like Seashepherd are so important.

Wanna know where that steak you're eating comes from?



[edit on 12-7-2010 by MrXYZ]

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


No, no. I think that the question is not weather or not they should have rights, but what exactly rights are, and what context do we use/understand them in. I mean, more or less, that rights are a definition of perspective and that we can't truly understand what rights should be considered unless we can really understand the context of the life and the reasoning for its existence, weather that be human or animal.

Now then..

What if, just for arguments sake, animals are intelligent, we can't understand them or their language BUT they sure as hell have feelings!

I have had so many animals as pets now that it is more than obvious they "feel" emotions. No, I'm not projecting my thoughts into them.. I can see when my animal is scared, which by logic means they can feel calm... I can see when they are happy, which in logic means they can feel sad.

It is even more obvious when you look at apes, the trust, the love etc etc is there to see. Elephants travel in family groups. There is a story of a tiger that remembered the man who rescued it years before...

So just what if it turns out they are intelligent? What gives us the right to impose our ideals, morals and laws onto something we consider inferior because we don't understand them?

We hunted and killed them over thousands of years on a "need to survive" basis, we killed, we ate, we clothed ourselves, this is the natural balance of things.

We are afterall meat-eaters but to USE another life because we can as a "resource" sickens me. Call me a hippy or whatever but everything with life has the right to exist in its own right, not by our rights.

Just my two-penneth

Animals are not human resources!
They are our neighbours with whom we share this planet.

What if we were not the top of the food chain, say there was another race on this planet "superior" to humans - would it be right for us to be their resources and used as they please?

This is the most idiotic and selfish comment I ever heard. Not to mention disconnected and morally dense.

Animals do feel, love, have personalities and just like us are expressions of the creator - call it God, Allah...whatever.

This is the problem with humanity, so disconnected and thinking this is our planet only. This is the mentality of the parasite.

How about this - children should be used as we adults please, be it food, abuse, sex etc since we are superior. Is that a fair comment.

People that think like that should be put on an island all together and do as they please to one another. Not fit for general human population.

reply to post by remrem


The unfortunate fact for you is that humans are at the top of the food chain, we are superior to animals. Your point about children doesn’t really stand as children are humans and are eligible for the same rights, animals are not. I really liked the bit and the end were you effectively say you want to take me and anyone who agrees with me and leave us on a island. How about i put you in a loin pen at feeding time and we can find out just how compassionate animals can be, you would be begging for me to shot the beast. I would eat if after words as well and use the skin as a nice fur carpet as resources should not be wasted.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by remrem

 

The unfortunate fact for you is that humans are at the top of the food chain, we are superior to animals. Your point about children doesn’t really stand as children are humans and are eligible for the same rights, animals are not. I really liked the bit and the end were you effectively say you want to take me and anyone who agrees with me and leave us on a island. How about i put you in a loin pen at feeding time and we can find out just how compassionate animals can be, you would be begging for me to shot the beast. I would eat if after words as well and use the skin as a nice fur carpet as resources should not be wasted.

I strongly disagree that anything, human or animal that kills, tortures, maims or starts wars for fun or profit is "superior" to those that live in harmony with the planet.

reply to post by kevinunknown


It is correct that we are on the top of the food chain, due to our intelligence. But doesn't that also imply that we are smart enough to live amongst animals and not abuse them, or kill them for sport.

As far as being put in a cage with a lion, thats something that doesn't happen that often, and it would take the "intelligence" of a person to put themselves in a situation that would require the death of an animal due to there shear stupidity to put themselves in danger. You cant ask a lion not to be a lion, but you can ask a person to be hospitable, and compassionate, for an living, breathing, animal.

Or how about this, maybe we can put some money together and open a school for chickens, or lions. Then we can teach them, that them being dumb is causing their demise, maybe then they will smarten up, and learn to defend themselves.... just a thought.


Peace to you...

reply to post by kevinunknown


There's two lines of thought about the relationship between humans and the rest of the fauna on this planet.

1) Dominion Over: this means that if you're a human, you can do whatever you want, regardless the consequence.

2) Stewardship Of: this means you are responsible for the health and welfare of the flora and fauna of this planet.

Which would be the best for the children of your children?

Me? I prefer stewardship.