ATS and the Culture of Hate

reply to post by dragnet53


And can you tell me where this “Islam country” is and what proof you have that every Muslim in it hates you. This is what I am talking about. sweeping generalisations.

Wait a minute... is this thread only about religious intolerance or just a GENERAL kind of disdain for everyone else on the planet?

Did the train take a track into the hinterland of theological debate?

No-one even knows their neighbours anymore... what does that say about modern society?

reply to post by jokei


I agree. Its not something new. Im not even certain it needs to be completely stamped out. Yes, it can be unpleasant to read hateful nasty things, and yes, it stings when they are addressed to you personally, but...........you only have a chance to introduce a new point of view if something is out in the open.

Although I will argue against the -isms, racism, sexism, etc., I dont think those who hold those views should just be made to shut up completely. Yes, boundaries are nice, and the T&C helps a lot to keep things from going completely down hill, as do the moderators, but negativity feeds on darkness and secrecy, and its one of the nice things about the internet that some of this crap can be brought honestly out into the flickering glow of your monitor where it can be examined, discussed, and seen for what it is.

If nothing else, it is a reminder to us that those who complain of discrimination may not be just being over sensitive. It really is still out there. People really do still feel that way. (Whatever -ism it may be) and interestingly enough, I have learned about a whole lot of other hate forms I never knew existed til I started hanging out on ATS. Lots of "love and light" types have their own little hates too, where they are pretty hostile towards anyone who messes up their lovey dovey feelings.

Its interesting. And as long as people dont get too crazy, personally, I like the honesty. There is always that "alert" button if you think someone is becoming so abusive things need to be stopped pronto. Use it. Wisely.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by davidmann

 

Are you accusing me of being a agent of the NWO. I have to ask because i get that allot.

No, it wasn't meant at you...just stating a fact: the anti-hate thing is Orwellian. They punish us for having a passion so strong, so pure, that it necessitates hatred of that which kills, steals, perverts, or destroys that passion. At the same time, they direct our 'hate', with propa so powerful it supports 180º lies. They blare these lies at all times. It's the msm, directing steps small and large. Nobody's right, when everybody's wrong.

I reserve the right to hate. Your personal affiliations don't really catch my eye.

Originally posted by masqua


No-one even knows their neighbours anymore... what does that say about modern society?

To me it says that the only real strength the middle and lower classes have is in number. And the best way to prevent us from spreading information amongst ourselves and reaching consensus, and possibly organizing is to divide us.

While I personally believe that the moving around and cocooning began serendipitously, as a result of the way our technology and culture grew, I think once the benefits to the economic powers became apparent of this little feature of our culture, it has been deliberately nurtured.

To me, it says a people united are a dangerous thing, and the people isolated from one another are easy to control, believing what TV says other people think and do, rather than asking other people what they think or do. It allows us to take our cues from "officials" rather than from one another.

It is a shame. We lose more than just our political power, being so isolated. We lose the warmth and comfort of having a community and the support inherent in that. We need to break out of the isolation and reconnect in our personal everyday lives. But someone has to do it first. I know my neighbors, because I do reach out, offer to help, ask how they are, etc. And while they are out talking to me, they do meet other neighbors, and a little group forms. But then I was raised in a more rural environment. It is easy for me to do that. Not everyone is so comfortable smiling and waving and saying hello first.

People still want it. They still want community. But for many they no longer know how to start the ball rolling. Which is a shame. Because if they could, they would realize how much other people want to connect too.

Jacob Sullum once wrote an excellent book about drugs called "Saying Yes" and he basically showed how the war on drugs maybe nothing more than disguised hate for people whom have a good time and are not living in suffering like everyone else or being obedient to some kind of controlled thought and controlled speech.
I would regard the idea that someone hates someone for merely using drugs and completely gets away with shooting dogs and sometimes people for no justifiable cause other than the idea they should be able to exercise arbitrary authority and do so in the event of a "possible" crime that may have been committed.

Your way of describing cannabis causes schizophrenia seems to imply if someone disagrees with you they are practicing hate speech, I just want to say that sounds extremely apologetic for the way the federal government has ruined millions of people's lives by treating them totally different from schiophrenic drunks and multiple personality nicotine/caffeine addicts, so really it seems absurd to blame a condition that depends almost entirely on some arbitrary definition.

Maybe you have never heard of psychiatrist R.D.Laing's experiments where him and two other doctors sent out a couple dozen people that presented themselves to hospitals all complaining of the same mental disturbances and almost all of them were given different disorders from one another, in other words the results were shocking and the APA tried to poo poo the research but the damage was done in the 1970's. Most of this research about drugs and mental illness comes from the governments own disillusion with it's own reports commissioned by Nixon administration and the refusal of them to accept the results that marijuana was considered harmless by the scientists funded by the federal governement to find a solution to the "drug problem".

An excellent book to read about schizophrenia was written by Laing entitled "The Politics of experience", I highly recommend reading it, it will amaze you. Also I recommend reading a book called "How to become a Schizophrenic" as well written by another writer.

Along a different approach I would recommend reading szasze most recently I read his bood "Pharmacracy", which explains how people like Obama think about healthcare and how this control ties in with mind control and drugging people with dissociative drugs to make them less able to resist society. There are lots of dollars to be made and exchanged for these magic pills we are being told are needed to make us all more happy, but in reality they are causing far more iatrogenic problems than most of the public understands, the healthcare will only increase Iatrogenesis.

I tend to think insanity in the individual a rare exception but in the group far more likely or common. Wilhelm reich was run out of Nazi germany for writing "The Mass Psychology of Fascism", he described the main sickness in the whole of society, the ordinary common man. This was a sort of dispute or difference with Freud's notion of how the mind works and how the group functions. Freud never connected the body to the mind this has for many years in other cultures been known as Chi, Reich called this Orgone, he was tossed in jail in the US, his books were burned by the FDA, he was called a quack, but no one ever did refute his scientific claims , they just said he was crazy and destroyed his labs and equipment, now I would call that hate. Later they did it again to Timothy Leary.

reply to post by bubbabuddha


I don’t really want to get into a debate about cannabis use in this thread, all i said was that there is a link between cannabis in teenage years and schizophrenia and suggestions that frequent prolonged use can lead to addiction and possible mental health side effects.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by LiveForever8

 

A experiment you should try go onto a 9/11 thread and tell them that you think there is no conspiracy it can be a infesting exercise for anyone to try.

I will try it , even if this is not what I believe. Just for argument sake I will write something very short and not very hard hitting.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 13-7-2010 by KpxMarMoTT]

Now this is another interesting thing, I have seen that there are those that seem to allways follow what I say to disrupt me. Somewhat a foe if you will. In this case GoodOlDave who was allways my foe has suddently agreed with me.

Let me just paste the interesting quote here :

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! *Finally* a voice of reason in the wilderness of abject paranoia and conspiracy mongering for conspiracy mongering's sake.

A clear case of someone that just allways creates negative comments on the ATS crew. Also this type of writing does not help anyone find truth, but only begs to divert attention, and willfully project negative imaging. According to him we are all conspiracy mongers / Negative feeding people.

This is exactly what is hapenning. Some people here are just like the joker in the dark knight. They just want to see the world burn. They just like chaos. To that I say they only derail things so that the truth never gets out. The same is done on TV, News, website.

Ohh and I really don't like GoodOlDave because of the way he negativelly derails every sensible subjects or any arguments I might have with nothingness. No argument, no logic, just pure derailing. Watch the next few responses, I will be proven right....

[edit on 13-7-2010 by KpxMarMoTT]

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
It allows us to take our cues from "officials" rather than from one another.

It is a shame. We lose more than just our political power, being so isolated. We lose the warmth and comfort of having a community and the support inherent in that. We need to break out of the isolation and reconnect in our personal everyday lives. But someone has to do it first. I know my neighbors, because I do reach out, offer to help, ask how they are, etc. And while they are out talking to me, they do meet other neighbors, and a little group forms. But then I was raised in a more rural environment. It is easy for me to do that. Not everyone is so comfortable smiling and waving and saying hello first.

So true... I'm in the unique position of knowing my neighbours as well as people in the wider community too. But we're a minority, really. Check this out:

For parents who fret about the amount of time their kids devote to electronic media, consider this: In Ontario, hundreds of thousands of teens spend nearly seven hours a day staring at a computer or TV screen.

The number surprises even researchers familiar with this growing trend and is likely to take a serious toll not only on adolescents' physical health, but on their emotional and mental well-being as well.

www.theglobeandmail.com...

Note that this is in Ontario, Canada, which is a province rich in lakes, rivers, small villages and towns that offer tons of outdoor activities. Consider the same study in Greater LA.

Couple that trend with Helicopter Parenting and you have a recipe for all sorts of mental & social problems:

Damaging effects of Helicopter Parenting

Children reared by helicopter parents often lack self-sufficiency. Educators say these young adults enter post-secondary schools lacking life skills such as selfreliance, sharing and conflict resolution.

These children also suffer academically, because they are accustomed to being spoon-fed when it comes to their studies, and can’t stand on their own academic feet when asked to think critically and analytically.

[snip]

Rosenfeld and Wise say sheltering our children from all discomfort, unhappiness or disappointment is humanly impossible and ultimately counterproductive, because these carefully shielded children enter the real world without the tools to deal with life’s ups and downs.
www.parentscanada.com...

We want everything to be perfect... and that just can't be good.




There's another modern twist that affects our kids today and that is bringing the workplace home. Parents try to do the same thing as corporations do; if there's a problem, bring in the experts and throw money at it until it stops squawking at you.

I don't even want to get into the medicating little Jane & Johhny angle, but it's immense.

Bottom line is that we are and have reared a generation of kids that EXPECT everything to go perfectly right all the time. When that doesn't happen, they will have anxiety and depression issues lasting well into adulthood or even their entire lives.

Answer? Ask any psychiatrist and the literature for meds comes out. Try the Paxil, John... that should help you deal with the cruelties of the real world.

Yeah... for sure, Doc.


Cocooning, helicopter parents for the past 30 years, television and the recent development of the internet and the overwhelming numbers of young/middle aged people on medication are what is causing us to be anti-social and stay clear of each other.





[edit on 13/7/10 by masqua]

reply to post by kevinunknown


well in my opinion it is any arabic person that goes to mecca. Those are the ones that don't even allow non-muslims to attend.

Well it maybe a shame the RD Laing video was pulled down by somebody as usual....

here maybe something else by him about madness....

schizophrenia specifically, and yes I have read the studies about Marijuana and I tend to think that simplifies the causes...

reply to post by kevinunknown


Know what I hate?

Pathetic politically correct fascist nancies like your self.

Prosecuted if preached publicly?

For shame..

Its my right to hate anyone I want to hate, love whom I want to love. At the moment, I feel like venting my disdain, my burning hatred for yellow belly cowards like your self. Take your speech monitoring, censoring arse outa here, we don't want you.

(I'm being especially mean to prove a point.. but no, really, I don't like you)

Originally posted by masqua
Wait a minute... is this thread only about religious intolerance or just a GENERAL kind of disdain for everyone else on the planet?

Did the train take a track into the hinterland of theological debate?

No-one even knows their neighbours anymore... what does that say about modern society?

Its one of those threads about everything! Lol.. modern culture has issues, and hate will never be destroyed, and indeed, I know some members on ats I've never met much more than my neighbors..

Personally, I think it simply means our ways of interacting have changed.. its not like we are becoming less social, we just get our social interaction elsewhere?

Aside from that, in reference to the OP and my very rude post you will no doubt remove .. our society strives way, way, way to hard to molly coddle everyone.. shield them from society or as the op says "hate". I find censoring any form of speech far more offensive than the most vile of hate speech.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Aside from that, in reference to the OP and my very rude post you will no doubt remove .. our society strives way, way, way to hard to molly coddle everyone.. shield them from society or as the op says "hate". I find censoring any form of speech far more offensive than the most vile of hate speech.

On your post removal, it would be against site and my own principles to moderate a thread I've voiced an opinion in, so it wouldn't be me that takes it down.

On 'the most vile hate speech' remark, let me ask you one simple question: How close are the rantings of popular bigots to mobs running amok replete with burning crosses and lynchings?

My personal view on the general increase of hate, not only as seen on this website but in society in general, is directly related to the tendency of people to hide away from other people. This has been happening since the advent of television after the 1950's and increased exponentially with the various features of home computers.

Couple that with a plethora of negative news screaming about criminal activity which is then carried country/worldwide and, even though crime stats are down, the resultant notion is that you are in danger just by sticking your nose out the door. This attitude creates fear and fear devolves into distrust/hatred.

ATS is a microcosm of the western world. WE are the canary in the cage.

hmm i just posted today a very hatefull comment about islam,but well the thread name was asking for flame wars. but i understand that there are good people in every culture
and appretiate the effort

reply to post by Rockpuck


I think you just proved my point for me. I mean that was a totally unprovoked personal attack ageist me for no other reason than you don’t like someone telling you when you are in the wrong. Yes you can hate who you want, but for me it’s not enough to say for example “I hate all blacks” unless that statement can be justified. You should be able to give evidence that everyone in an ethnic or social grouping has as a collective group done something that gives you justification to hate them all. Without this justification you are in the wrong for you only “hate” them because of what they are rather than who they are and what they have done. It is the absence of this evidence that makes you in the wrong.

I am not telling you to love everyone or who you can and cannot hate on an individual level, but you cannot claim to hate “all Muslims” or “all homosexuals” without the justification I outlined above. I don’t have a problem with anyone who “hates the individual” I have a problem with people who only hate the label without seeing the person(s) behind the label.

I have to ask, why you don’t like me, what did I do to warrant such a personal attack. I would bet you can’t answer that question to a satisfactory standard without referring to what you perceive my social group to be.

Don't confuse hate with dislike or a valid opinion.
I dislike Islam. I've lived in an area taken over by Muslims and I've had a Muslim colleague explain to me how non Muslims residents and business owners are driven out. IMO Islam is very dangerous - and I don't mean through bombings.
I dislike homosexuality but hey, each to their own. Just don't be so in my face with your silly 'gay pride' marches.
Hey and guess what, disagreeing with Zionism does not make one anti semitic. In fact many Jews feel the same.
Neither of the above makes me racist or homophobic.
As for those who accuse anyone who disagrees with the conspiracy de jour of being a shill - how pathetic and paranoid are they!
Nothing to choose between them and the NWO really. They are just the alternative NWO. But oh how they love to crow their superiority over 'the sheeple'. Welcome to the conspiracy sheeple!

[edit on 17-7-2010 by starchild10]

It seems like any good example given for discussion in this thread devolves into a debate over the example rather than a debate about the original post which is essentially the rotten way people are treating each other.

I think part of the problem is that most of the participants that the OP is talking about get a knee-jerk reaction to instantly jump up and 'defend' their own opinions.

The fact is that much of this behavior is based upon the desire to be right, and the fear/hatred of ever being told that they might be wrong.



[edit on 17-7-2010 by badgerprints]