Virtually everything seems to be a lie

Well nicely said and put together. I have always thought of the 9/11 being an inside job, I still think the "phone call recording" was faked and that the struggle that happens wasn't with hijackers, it was with the crew when the people found out about what the plan for the plane was. I have yet to find the evidence for it though.

anyway I think every time you believe in anything the government says then someone somewhere has come an inch closer to death.

Just IMO, this thread however was wonderfully thought out Sir.

reply to post by Section31


I'm not quite sure what point you're making about Marx, and if I'm missing the point feel free to correct me, but Marx didn't claim capitalists were criminals in the sense that they exploited people out of evil intentions. His take on why capitalism inherently organizes a society around the demands of capital is this:

To the out-cry as to the physical and mental degradation, the premature death, the torture of over-work, [capital] answers: Ought these to trouble us since they increase our profits? But looking at things as a whole, all this does not, indeed, depend on the good or ill will of the individual capitalist. Free competition brings out the inherent laws of capitalist production, in the shape of external coercive laws having power over every individual capitalist. (p. 257)

He recognized that the reason why capitalists did what they did or were who were they were tied up in the imperatives of competition and capital. Just a point!

Originally posted by ghostpigeon
reply to post by Section31

 

I'm not quite sure what point you're making about Marx, and if I'm missing the point feel free to correct me...

I ended up removing the remarks, for they didn't fit the context correctly. Karl Marx believed in class warfare to some extent, and his work was based upon a theory which pitted workers against employers. After I thought about the context a little more, I knew it was going in the wrong direction. It made sense at the time, but I changed my approach at the last second.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by Section31]

Originally posted by Section31

Originally posted by thedarktower
I believe capitalism and greed are the problems. If a lie can make money they will tell it. What can we do? Communism doesn't work, as greed soon seeps in there too. The 5 year plans and the workers doing them end up answering to a higher power who has more wealth than the rest, which is the reason for a revolution in the first place.

Hmmm... Is capitalism responsible for greedy people, or are people greedy to begin with? Do we blame the open market for unethical human behavior, or do we blame the individual for the lack of restraint?

[edit on 11-7-2010 by Section31]

Well, thats a good question. I think everyone is greedy to an extent. With the capatalist system, we are rewarded by being greedy.

For example, say i owned a factory that made tables. You owned one as well. I sold mine at 10 bucks a table and you started selling your at 9 bucks. To make the table say it cost 5 bucks. How can i make my tables cheaper? I can lower the wage of the workers. Now mine sell for 8 bucks. So you lower your workers wages and sell for $7.50. I pay off a large amount of worker to save on costs, and so on and so on. Each time we are doing this, its greed on our part to make more money for ourselves, yet us two individuals might be effecting hunderds of workers lives. Maybe if the workers themselves earned a living from the profits of their labour instead of one individual at the top, we would live in a different world. I dont know, its just a suggestion, probably would not work either!

On the issue of who can you trust. There is no easy formula for this. I think we know trust when we see it. We learn to trust a certain friend or family member and have a personal relationship which either builds on the idea we can trust then or tears it down then they betray us. Once broken, it's very hard to put back together.

On sources, this is a similar process and trusting your sources can only come from building a familiarity with a work or an author and watching how many times you think they've led you in the right direction and how many times they lead you astray.

That said, we're all human and all fallible and you have to give people a little slack and realize they won't be right all the time on every point. It's all hooked into both research and judgment on sources/data, but also on a more intangible set of factors like gut-feelings, intuition and synchronicity. Life is complicated and so is the truth. Occam's razor only ever gets you so far and ignores the basic complexity of human beings and human relations. What we think is a simple explanation can often turn out to be just a big or small lie covering a more complex truth.

reply to post by thedarktower


Nice example and you surely have not only read Marx but understand his and others' theory of capital. Great simple explanation for a the reason why get the hell exploited out of us by "greedy" people. There are greedy people out there, but not every boss is greedy, never-the-less our interests take a back seat to the imperatives of his or her business. That's why capitalism does not breed morality, but expediency into people and that's why the jobs in America having been flying out the door for thirty years. A series of complicated justifications for that have to be fed to us by politicians who get in the game and when the military elites insert their interests into politics and capitalism and vice versa . . . Voila, here comes the power elite in consolidated form: the MIC. Add media and the "confidentiality" of a national emergency and the media feeds us the lies non-stop because they're doing the bidding of those who own their labor.

I get a lot my "news" from independent sources as well as keeping tabs on MSM and it's tough to figure out who's reliable at times, but I know MSM will never be dependable on anything where corporate interests are involved. They can't undermine the guys who cut their checks or they're gone. Independent media can be more reliable because they essentially "own their own labor" but often times their resources are thin and so they stretch their anlayses further than it can hold up. It's a pain in the arse to work around this, but if you put time into it, I think you can get a fair idea of what a given "truth" might be. You can build people's track records and count on them fairly well after a time.

reply to post by Section31


Cool, got it! thanks for clearing that up. I put up a lot of posts sometimes where I'm struggling just keep up with the pace, and realize they're full of everything from misspellings to different kinds of unclearness. I appreciate you response! And I hope I wasn't nitpicking too much.

Originally posted by thedarktower
Well, that is a good question. I think everyone is greedy to an extent. With the capitalism system, we are rewarded by being greedy...

Good counter assessment.

My only response can be -- Capitalism is not the only system in which rewards greedy people. If the system itself was unique in form and reward, I can understand why people would hold Capitalism as the source of our troubles. People in politics seek political positions, which gives them a certain amount of influence, resources, and power. As a result of making deals on the side, politicians sell their moral belief systems so they can progress upward. Instead of just money as the system's driving force, people are rewarded with a high position of power.

I don't blame the systems themselves, for they can be manipulated from external elements. I do blame the people who get involved within the systems, for some of them lack a certain level of morality and restraint. It is all about 'self' control. Not everyone is a greedy politician or greedy corporate tycoon, for some actually do maintain a level of moral stability. It is only when 'the individual' becomes hungry for more; thus, teaching people who go into politics and corporations to be ethical is the only solution.

Regulating the free market is meaningless, for it would be putting greedy people in charge of greedy people.

Our solution is to teach our children strong moral behaviors, so when they do enter into politics and corporations they have the will to overcome corruption.

Originally posted by ghostpigeon
reply to post by Section31

 

Cool, got it! thanks for clearing that up...

No problem.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by Section31]

You are all lying!!!!

I start thinking about all the lies we have been told since day 1 and it makes me feel angry, sad, confused, hopeless...etc.

The real question is why are we told these lies? Is life really just a game? Did we choose to be here?

The entire world political structure seems very complicated and it seems that there really is no way to change it. People say you can vote or write your congressman or protest....are any of those things really going to change anything?

Anyway, I'm tired of the lies and part of why I came here on ATS is hope for some insight into the question of "why". Just a few dots here and there.

So with that said....where are we headed? Where is this going? What is the purpose of human beings? I think the only way we will ever know is once we die.

reply to post by bwinwright


Watch the movie Tron and tell me that is not a representation of our life. Or atleast now watch it with the knowledge you have and imagine it in reality. Master Computer=Government (watch)...

reply to post by bwinwright

THE GOOD NEWS IS...everyday another person wakes up.

Eventually we will collectively realize there are more of us than them and there is going to be Hell to pay.

Don't lose faith! God loves us and didn't take us this far to let the dark side win.

It is all coming to a head sooner than you think.

reply to post by breakonthrough9


You could try to work it out before you die. It will save time when you reincarnate.

Look, this is all a big lie. Everything is a lie. You're meant to be looking at the world through your heart, not your head. Stop analyzing sh*t with your brain. Use the light of your heart to point the way forward.

We are all going in the wrong direction until we learn to feel again. You will always be lied to because the brain can never have enough info to make sound judgment. The heart always knows the truth. It is where truth resides. Your actions should all be motivated by love. There is no other reason needed, no other justification, and this too comes from the heart.

reply to post by bwinwright


It's human nature to lie.

I've even read that a big milestone in a child's development is the first time that they lie; if only because it shows that they realize that they are there own separate person.

I'd think anyone successful has to lie to some degree. Politicians probably more so than others. They have to pretend to be what the majority of people like so they can win. What person with ambition would deliberately sabotage their chances?

The only way you'd find a politician who'd be himself is if they were chosen at random and couldn't be kicked out of office.

Originally posted by ghostpigeon
reply to post by thedarktower

 

There are greedy people out there, but not every boss is greedy, never-the-less our interests take a back seat to the imperatives of his or her business.

Yeah thats true, also why i find myself out of a job.

Maybe the lie is as big as we here at ATS believe it is, or perhaps we just suspect every little thing due to a few lies that have been exposed.

Just referring back to the OP, i dont think the moon landings were faked, there is plenty of scientific evidence to back it up, even the shadows in different directions thing, check out this video

www.youtube.com...

sorry, dont know how to get the actual video on ATS
and dont know why this all looks like one big quote!! anyone who can help me sort this for the future, please do as i look like an idiot now

[edit on 11-7-2010 by thedarktower]

reply to post by Mayson


Pardon me but please define "successful". I think our definitions vastly differ.

Perhaps you look at these things as "human nature" because it's the only nature you know. Perhaps if you looked at other options as genuine options - despite never having experienced them in your lifetime - you might see that we humans choose to be what we are. Greed is not innate. Greed is not success. Lying is not successful behavior, nor should it be rewarded with increased comfort. What does that say about us as beings if this is what we count as one of many desirable traits? Surely we are able to make better choices and find it in our own hearts to reject this out of hand. Surely we're that strong.

OK so we discovered the truth. Now what? Spend the rest of our days living a lie and living with the fact that everything we know is fabricated? That pretty much seems to be all I ever get out of these kinds of posts. I don't ever hear answers as to what to do? And I don't mean dig deeper into your soul and reach your higher self crap. If I was a pothead that might be the logical thing to do but I'm not. Good work by the op though, I totally feel what they have written as being the truth, just would like to see people taking action against these evil bastards for once, make them the slaves. What a great thing it would be for everyone in this world to get together and sort this mess out once and for all.

reply to post by bwinwright


Give yourself some time to relax over what you read and research.

Everyone needs a break at times when the mind gets cloudy.

If your seeking an answer to a question the only thing thats going to stop you from finding it is yourself.

If you were a runner and you broke your leg would you keep running or stop for a break until you were fit again? Its the same with research, walls present themselves and sometimes you need to wait until your ready to leap over.

Relax and take some time to recharge.

This reminds me of this movie scene here...



Theres one thing this scene completely forgets and that is that we are human beings, we need rest at times.



[edit on 11-7-2010 by XXXN3O]

S&F OP!

And now that you've learned this.. it sort of opens mental doors... perhaps changing your perception from here out... Or maybe close off doors and a jaded cynical perception remains... But that's just my opinion on your OP.

In many ways it is not what they say, but more a case of what they do not say. Why are we never told the truth about stars and planets being hollow ? Once we cotton on to the fact that the Earth and the Moon are hollow, things begin to fall into line.

The existance of the DUMB [deep underground military bases] is nothing new. Notice how the Vatican is 99% underground. What you see on the surface is virtual nothing, by comparison to what is going on under the ground. It is in the language too. Why are slaves refered to as SURFDOM ? Is it because we are on the SURFACE ? Which is to imply that the masters are underground ?

According to Professor Yostrum of Sweden, in his book "Subdue the Earth", during the Ice Ages sea level has been as much as 6000 metres lower than it is today. During such times there are vaste possibility for underground facilities. Unfortunately during warm inter glacial periods like as at present the underground environment is flooded. But in the continental interior it is possible that there are areas where they are still able to be underground.

My own estimation is that the crust of the hollow Earth is no more than 50 kilometres thick and that it is certainly possible to tunnel all the way through to the hollow interior. So the Masters are not in the White House or in the Vatican. The Masters are in the Earths hollow interior.

Another sad thing about this is that the giants who live in the hollow interior of the Earth are cannibalism. We are just cattle to them. We are looked apon as being merely their livestock. In every major city, or not so major city, you will find evidence of the underground and their interaction with the deeper, Realms of the Guardians, and through them to the hollow interior of the Earth. All the evils in the world can be traced back to the Masters in the Hollow Earth. You want to know who did 9/11 and why ? Then start thinking about the hollow Earth. Also realise that they are light years ahead of us in their technology.




[edit on 11/7/2010 by CAELENIUM]