Atheism is a Cop-out

Why do you reply to every post with many blessings. many blessings. many blessings....

It's annoying...

How about no blessings and some reasonable discussion, instead of half-hearted recycled dialogue and regurgitated pseudo-spiritualism.

reply to post by Saul of Tarsus


Ego? No, you didn't get to me... I do work on orders and manners though (mostly), mine was one of the first questions directly addressed to you and you're being very evasive about it.

Originally posted by jokei
reply to post by Saul of Tarsus

 

Ok, you're definitely missing my question, one last time - I don't know how to make this more simple for you, so the main part of the question is in bold...

When this is an ongoing debate here on ATS, why can you not contribute to an ongoing thread (of which there are many) instead of just whipping up yet another pointless X Vs Y thread that ultimately will not satisfy either party.

As an aside to this, I would like to note that there have been some decent posts from both sides of the argument and it's been good to see some that I disagree with being polite and intelligent, I cannot extend this to the OP whom I see as a boring troll.

Originally posted by Saul of Tarsus
reply to post by jokei

 

If I accused you falsely, please accept my apology, your referring me to the rules and yours being the last post on the closed thread was my clue. Assuming that I have only read one book during all my incarnations on this planet is your prerogative. I offer however that wisdom is not found in books but in awareness. Many Blessings

Well, you've not been here that long, you may want to note that on the whole the moderators are very active and alert. It seems symptomatic of your attitude that you point the finger without thinking through. If I had reported you, I would clearly state so. I've had many of my own threads moved or even removed (never closed though (shrug)), I personally don't feel a need to point fingers nor sulk about it - maybe if you were more a man of christ you would have turned the other cheek?

I was not assuming you had only read one book, but from your glib interpretation of my comment it might be fair

- the comment actually meant that you were sinking your belief into one book - that let's face it has a questionable history (which edition are you choosing etc) as opposed to many books (Science, philosophy, sociology etc) that are very well researched and sourced. I was not in any way assuming your whole scope of reading material and can only assume you've purposely misinterpreted my statement to further your (shoddy) rhetoric.

OK, here goes. And the answer is... What better way to understand what goes on in a person's mind than to criticize what they label themselves as and hear what they have to say about it. It appears as though the thread has accomplished exactly that and I agree with you that there have been some excellent contributions from both sides, excluding mine of course:-) By the way, I have contributed to your chilli thread. Warmly, good luck with the chillies!

Originally posted by Saul of Tarsus
OK, here goes. And the answer is... What better way to understand what goes on in a person's mind than to criticize what they label themselves as and hear what they have to say about it.

Right, I understand that - but you're still not answering or avoiding the question of why start this at all when there are already a number of threads discussing this very topic?

For the most part, at least initially both sides were balanced, informative and polite, but it seems you've only served to encourage schism that is needless and (sorry to say) very boring when it's happened here to the Nth degree. This leads me to suspect you're either attempting to garner (meaningless) stars for your profile or you're just trolling for the fun of it - I'd like to think most of the members of ATS are above that.

Personally, I have no need for religion in my life, I'm content - as far as these troubled times allow, I always try to do the best I can and benefit people wherever possible... my whole take on any judgement I may receive is that I'll do ok - I can honestly say I've done more good than harm and actively tried to do good and avoid causing harm, but you know what, I actually think that applies to most of this community.

Again though, I think the thread has devolved into needless bickering that didn't need to occur (again).

If I do get judged at the gates, someone is going to get kicked in the nuts management has made some bad decisions. Example: Miley Cyrus.

Thanks for nosing through my profile, it's worth doing sometimes to size someone up.

Originally posted by Saul of Tarsus
Atheism is a cop-out. Non-belief in GOD is non-belief in self.

I believe in myself and the universe. It's YOU who thinks that the disbelief in God is the disbelief in the self, thus YOUR arguement is the one that needs to be challenged.

GOD is not a dead white male in the sky. G (generate) O (organize) D (deliver) are attributes of the one reality of which we are part, therefore attributes of ourselves.

That is nothing but babble.

Dualism (religion) and atheism are falsehoods. Truth is unity.

Aagain you make no sense. I too seek the truth but i don't need to believe in some mystical diety. What makes you somehow better than me?

Nothing. In much the same way i'm no better than you. But i don't start threads saying this crap.

There is no separation between us and GOD, separation exists only in the mind.

But if God doesn't exist then there's nothing to seperate, so again your words are hollow and mean nothing...

Ah hah!, got your attention didn’t I? Now, for those who have seen this same thread in another category and were thinking of commenting, there is a good reason why this thread appears twice.

Because trolling once isn't good enough?

The Brahmin caste in India wears two threads over the shoulder symbolic of the possibility of a second birth.

The Brahmin caste also spits on beggars and consider its own people as unclean and untouchable just because they are born into poorer families. Nothing spiritual about them. I spent time with many castes in india and none of them seemed any different to each other besides labels.

The purpose of the examples quoted above is to stir up the quantum soup. If I have succeeded in doing so, anybody to whom this applies will be feeling a bit of discomfort, and that is good!

The only thing i'm uncomfortable with is the direct insult to free thinking atheists who don't judge your religion, yet you belittle us with your vague words and half-senses that you masquerade with pseudo-spiritual jargon and your egotistical holier than thou attitude.

Although evolution is natural, dying and being reborn does not take place without a measure of discomfort.

..... Agreed.

Both religion and atheism can be likened to blockages in the nozzle of the airbrush we are painting our external reality with. Religion is like a partial blockage and atheism a total blockage.

This is crap. We are born as atheists, THUS this suggests that religion is the blockage that fills up the tube as we grow older , whilst the purest path is atheism

So, if you are still generating, organizing and delivering you cannot be a true atheist, perhaps more of an agnostic (confused).

Nope... I'm still an atheist

That’s OK, it is perfectly understandable. On at least two occasions during the present world age, this planet has suffered blockages in the essential flow of wisdom to humanity.

Hmm, i don't remember anyone destorying knowledge in the name of atheism, neither do i remember any wars being fought in the name of atheism.

Perhaps this was part of the grand design all along.

assuming their is such a thing...

Now that science has caught up with spirituality, the ancient wisdom that is starting to make sense of the all has miraculously become manifest.

Hmm not quite sure what you mean here? You can be a spiritual scientist, you can be a non-spiritual christian, or any overlap of the two. This is too vague a definition.

Buddha was not a Buddhist and Christ was not a Christian.

I agree.

For more than half a century a modern Buddha and a modern Christ have walked this planet, without anyone noticing (like thieves in the night). I will not do humanity the disservice of pointing them out to you and they would not appreciate it either. They have devoted their lives to bringing light into this world, and continue to do so with complete devotion, bless their souls. “Seek and ye shall find…”

Right.. A bold statement and one that you refuse to answer or provide proof to... I somehow don't believe you. You do NOT have to be modern Buddha's or Christ's to be good people. You don't need to be either to make people happy and live non-harmful lives.

You don't even need to be religious to be caring and moralistic, you don't even need to believe in God....

The point is or should I say the points are the rest of us. Are we ready to clear our blockages? The question to keep asking yourself is “who am I?” When your answer finally brings the biggest grin imaginable to your face and in the next moment slips through your fingers as if it were never here, you have glimpsed it.

Again this makes little or no sense. Using vague metaphors and broken english in a cryptic way does not constitute proof of God or spirituality.

When you clear that, love and peace flows into this world through you unrestricted.

Again you don't need to worship anything to be happy.

Originally posted by jokei

Originally posted by Saul of Tarsus
OK, here goes. And the answer is... What better way to understand what goes on in a person's mind than to criticize what they label themselves as and hear what they have to say about it.

Right, I understand that - but you're still not answering or avoiding the question of why start this at all when there are already a number of threads discussing this very topic?

For the most part, at least initially both sides were balanced, informative and polite, but it seems you've only served to encourage schism that is needless and (sorry to say) very boring when it's happened here to the Nth degree. This leads me to suspect you're either attempting to garner (meaningless) stars for your profile or you're just trolling for the fun of it - I'd like to think most of the members of ATS are above that.

Personally, I have no need for religion in my life, I'm content - as far as these troubled times allow, I always try to do the best I can and benefit people wherever possible... my whole take on any judgement I may receive is that I'll do ok - I can honestly say I've done more good than harm and actively tried to do good and avoid causing harm, but you know what, I actually think that applies to most of this community.

Again though, I think the thread has devolved into needless bickering that didn't need to occur (again).

If I do get judged at the gates, someone is going to get kicked in the nuts

management has made some bad decisions. Example: Miley Cyrus.

Thanks for nosing through my profile, it's worth doing sometimes to size someone up.

I like you Jokei. Let's rather communicate on your other threads where we have something in common:-)

reply to post by Saul of Tarsus


Ok, I don't think we're going to progress on this.

If anyone wants to see where else the pair of us are thrashing it out:

www.belowtopsecret.com...

I would argue that taking any absolute position *pro a higher power or con* in this particular debate is a cop-out and an excuse to stop looking and thinking and start wearing those blinders and reinforcing.

[edit on 12-7-2010 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
I would argue that taking any absolute position *pro a higher power or con* in this particular debate is a cop-out and an excuse to stop looking and thinking and start wearing those blinders and reinforcing.

[edit on 12-7-2010 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Sounds great and all but I just have one question.

What should we be looking for?

I stand chastized atheists. You have been my enlightenment. Darkbake is a far more eloquent teacher than I can ever dream to be. I will leave you with one last road sign, please visit www.heartmath.org, there have been some incredible scientific discoveries about the intelligence of the heart. Love you guys! No more blessings:-)

reply to post by K J Gunderson


*shrugs* If I knew the answer to that question I would not make the statement I did. The question of a higher power is a bigger question than that. Of course driven into trivialities by trivial people.

Your question was silly.

AWESOME! Another nutjob trying to tell everyone that they are wrong and he is right.

How about this - there is no such thing as "god".

How's that for a conspiracy?

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

*shrugs* If I knew the answer to that question I would not make the statement I did. The question of a higher power is a bigger question than that. Of course driven into trivialities by trivial people.

Your question was silly.

My question was not the least bit silly. You said that it makes no sense to be certain either way so we should keep looking. You then go on to assume we should be looking for a higher power. How do you know that is what we should be looking for if you do not know anything either way? How about all the options outside of a higher power? Should we be looking for those too?

Interesting topic!

The problem I see with Atheism is that they have to, in one way or another, live their lives based on faith anyway!

Faith is a belief in the unseen and the unproven, right?

Look at the world around you...
Why do you have faith that the toothpaste manufacturer placed the right ingredients in the toothpaste? After all, you haven't personally verified the truth of their claims; you just automatically believed that was flouride in there because they said so.
You believe it because they wrote it out on the side of the box and the toothpase tube.
Is that all that is required for you to believe them?

Why would they lie, right?
It is written on the box so it must be true???
Of course, we know that based on real life experiences, not all toothpaste can be trusted.

but you absolutely trust the brand you grew up with.
The brand you have always used since you were a kid.
The brand you never even question since the day you started brushing your teeth.
In fact, they change the formula all the time and you blindly trust this huge organization to do that for you.
Atheists... have absolute and unyielding faith in the toothpaste corporation. Blind faith.


And this happens with pretty much every factory product in your life. You already ARE living a huge chunk of your life based solely on faith.

Originally posted by SaHasani1990



And this happens with pretty much every factory product in your life. You already ARE living a huge chunk of your life based solely on faith.

Are you equating faith that the toothpaste I use will not kill me with faith in a god?

Originally posted by Saul of Tarsus
Atheism is a cop-out.

Both atheism and religion are based upon the assumption that there are only two dimensions of consciousness: the consciousness of the "self" and the consciousness of the 'thinker'.

That assumption is based upon the belief in the metaphysical duality, as expressed in Meditations On First Philosophy by Descartes.

But these two dimensions of consciousness are self-created.

The consciousness of the "self" self-reflects itself into existence; and the consciousness of the 'thinker' 'assumes' or 'thinks' itself into existence.

And, since these dimensions of consciousness are self-created they cannot be the consciousness Created "by and in the image of God" (Genesis 1:27).

In other words, the consciousness Created "by and in the image of God" must be a third dimension of consciousness; a dimension of consciousness referred to in Buddhism and the Eastern esoteric traditions as the "observing consciousness" which is both non-temporal and non-spatial.

The 'spatiality' of the 'fallen' consciousness originates in the 'movement' of self-reflection; whereas the 'temporality' of the 'fallen' consciousness originates in thought (as has also been observed by Krishnamurti).

And, it is because the consciousness of the "self" and the consciousness of the 'thinker' are self-created that such a consciousness considers itself equivalent to God (see Isaiah 14:12-14--that is, the consciousness of the "self" and the 'thinker' is not God).

Revelations, however, are conveyed by means of the "observing consciousness". And it is for that reason that both atheists and religionists are opposed to Revealed Truth; for example, that the Doctrine of "resurrection" is a Doctrine of 'Rebirth', and the Knowledge that is Revealed through the Vision of the "Son of man".

Michael Cecil

[edit on 17-7-2010 by Michael Cecil]

reply to post by Erad3


Plead insanity!

reply to post by K J Gunderson


Who are you to say what people should or should not be looking for? Who is anyone? Is anyone truly greater than all the others? I'd wager not. We are ALL human and we ALL have our fallible viewpoints to which we are inseperably wedded. Which viewpoint is the right one? NO ONE is any real position to know. It's just that mindset the one that thinks that it can and should dictate to everyone else what they should be doing that leads to Totalitarian grasps for control of others........

Originally posted by UmbraSumus

Originally posted by Saul of Tarsus
. For more than half a century a modern Buddha and a modern Christ have walked this planet, without anyone noticing (like thieves in the night). I will not do humanity the disservice of pointing them out to you and they would not appreciate it either.

At the substantial risk of blocking my nozzle even further , are you claiming to have knowledge of the whereabouts of " a modern Buddha and a modern Christ " ?

I'll claim that knowledge of their whereabouts.

Jesus: Throne in heaven
Buddha: The vain imagination of men.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I think you're confusing knowledge with belief