Should All UK Police Be Armed?

reply to post by Spirit777


So are you suggesting that this entire thing was orchestrated by the police to further a agenda for all police to be armed. Further to this you think that i am their mole inside ATS who is on here trying to sway public opinion and persuade people it’s a good idea.

If all officers were armed I think it would increase the number of gun's in criminals hands, they would feel they need to, to allow themselves to go about their dastardly deeds

it's all a slippery slope

and there's no point in talking about the general population being armed, thats simply never ever gonna happen, those day's are gone, regardless of what kind of stat's can be pulled from canada or switzerland etc


There are some serious problems in the UK, but I don't think arming police is gonna do anything to alleviate those problems.

reply to post by woogleuk


Ok clubs was probably not the best example. Take the recent events involving moat the idea that i have put forward would have meant that every officer in Northumbria would have been armed form day one. This might have meant that the offer who was shoot may have been able to have shot moat first and saved allot of time, money and misery.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by Spirit777

 

So are you suggesting that this entire thing was orchestrated by the police to further a agenda for all police to be armed. Further to this you think that i am their mole inside ATS who is on here trying to sway public opinion and persuade people it’s a good idea.

umm yeah! lol

reply to post by Spirit777


So you’re not joking.

Ok I categorically deny that accusation and further to this think that your theory that this was orchestrated by the police to advance a agenda for arming the police is equally as ridiculous as your claims about me. Why would the police shoot one of there own if that was the case?

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by Spirit777

 

So you’re not joking.

Ok I categorically deny that accusation and further to this think that your theory that this was orchestrated by the police to advance a agenda for arming the police is equally as ridiculous as your claims about me. Why would the police shoot one of there own if that was the case?

Many various reasons and they have done this more than a few times already.

reply to post by kevinunknown

I really can see where you are coming from, and to a point I have to agree and say you are right.

But I still think that arming everyday officers will cause far more problems than it will solve.

1) Our combined (lol) idea of an armoury at every station and several select trained local officers to use them needs be.

2) Compulsory 6 monthly // yearly psychological assessment of ALL registered gun owners in the UK regardless of social status.

3) 6 monthly // yearly home searches of known offenders who pose the greatest risk. (Raoul Moat had just been released from prison, and unless i am mistaken, prison automatically grants you a firearms ban).

4) Last resort......plastic bullets.


EDIT: Spirit, I highly doubt Kevin is an undercover cop, he has started a worthwhile topic, which does need to be addressed by the people of the UK, not mocked, ridiculed or.......trolled.

[edit on 10/7/10 by woogleuk]

reply to post by woogleuk


Yeah I suppose we are going to have to differ over the idea of every day rottenly armed officers but that’s just the way things are i suppose and at least you’ve not accused me of being a government agent. Everything else you said i would agree with you on though psychological examinations are a good idea as is searching the homes of dangerous offenders. Just one problem allot of people including some on this site will start ranting about how it breach’s their human rights and restricts their liberty.

reply to post by kevinunknown


Hey, i'm just happy to have had a decent discussion again on ATS

Too many people just sniping at folks recently, but as one of the mods pointed out to me, in the words of Alice Cooper.......schools out for summer! LMAO Cheers Kev!

No.

I dont think all Police officers should carry guns.
If they have it, they'll use it.
They'll draw it to threaten individuals in the same matter they extend their vipers to threaten people.
Yeah, it may be handy if the criminal their facing has a gun but wouldnt police carrying more guns lead to esculation?
Making criminals carry bigger guns.

And theres the fact that the police officers could lose their weapon or have it stolen etc.

People like Byrd and Moat as psychos who have flipped.
Its just unfortunate that these two incidents happend.

Come to think of it though, the police have all ready esculated things by using the RAF's Tornados.
Talk about over kill...

reply to post by kevinunknown


On the surface your proposal would seem to have merritts, however it could be a thin end of a huge very wide wedge and used by those with a more authoritarian agenda, certainly if it was adopted it must be on a voluntary basis, most rank and file police officers are against arming the police.

I visited an ex girlfriend in Northern Ireland in the early 90's and it was a huge!!! shock to see armed police walking around an apparently English town, the shops and people looked just the same, obviously I saw the need for the armaments.

If the police were armed I would want to see an educational degree as an entry requirement and stop the practice of employing ex armed forces personnel with easier entry tests

No place occupied by humans will ever be a utopia, too many points of view as to what Utopia entails we just have to accept a degree of criminality, judged by societal norms, and learn to control what we can and live with the rest. Just like we do now.

In this case if the ex girlfriend had told Moat that the new bf was a karate instructor, as he was and not a cop as she did, Moat would probably have come armed with his fists and been satisfied by a fight. In a different dimension maybe this is what happened and Moat gained his fated notoriety when the fight became a YouTube sensation.

Based on that scenario a Utopian could put forth the case to electrically wire our brains to prevent lying and all the horrors it causes, A Brave New World is a utopia to some.

As an aside I wonder if the Taser shot made Moat fire the gun.

If they have it, they'll use it.

That's not true at all, despite what the media wants you to think well over 90% of US law enforcement officers go their entire careers without having to shoot someone.

Should all UK police be armed? Yes, and ditto for all the remaining unarmed police forces left in the world (Irish Garda, Norwegian Police, Icelandic Police, and the various British colonial and Commonwealth police forces).

Originally posted by Esrom Escutcheon Esquire
No.

I dont think all Police officers should carry guns.
If they have it, they'll use it.

I carried one for years on my side in a purely policing role, there were hundreds of times when i could have drawn it, i can count on one hand the amount of times i did.

There are other skills than pulling a trigger. It was just handy sometimes having the last tool in the box.

CX.

PS: I would also like to add for the record, that i categorically deny any affection for kevinunknown.....despite the fact that judging by his avatar we do look similar.

Sorry Kev mate.

CX.

reply to post by ChrisF231


And what happens when some 'loon' points a toy gun at an armed officer?

Wouldnt encourage suicide by cop much would it.

reply to post by Thepreye

I really don’t see why there would be any need for a degree entry to the police purely because they carry firearms. I have read a couple of really good books by former armed cops who say that ex forces make for fantastic armed officers. I haven’t really herd to much about the tazer being used i think that is still to be confirmed
I do know that there is one police force in the UK that is routinely armed , the MoD police that is largely dew to the nature of their work.
reply to post by Esrom Escutcheon Esquire


I really don’t think that the police would use their weapons flippantly like you have said. Any time a weapon in discharged by a member of one of the tactical firearm teams the officer is automatically suspended and an investigation is carried out by the IPCC. I also disagree that the drafting in a GR4 escalated events however in hindsight it was a pointless exercise.
If some idiot starts pointing imitation firearms at a armed officer what does he expect to happen that’s just a really stupid point

reply to post by CX


The rejection is killing me. What force were you in?

Originally posted by Esrom Escutcheon Esquire
reply to post by ChrisF231

 

And what happens when some 'loon' points a toy gun at an armed officer?

Wouldnt encourage suicide by cop much would it.

Thats where training comes in, but yes i agree that you will always get accidents from this kind of situation. Lesson 1: Don't point a gun at an armed copper.

Which of course will bring on the arguement for less lethal options.

I do actualy support these though so am open to offers other than the just the Tazer.

CX.

[edit on 10/7/10 by CX]

Originally posted by kevinunknown
What force were you in?

Royal Military police. Served Germany and S. Armagh mostly. In Germany we had the 9mm Browning on our side, many hated them, i loved them and found them a dream to shoot, but i used to spend a lot of time with it.

Just read that back and it wasn't as weird as it sounds.

CX.

Ah thanks interesting posting S. Armagh guessing your out now. So you were a red cap, I was thinking about doing something like that a few years ago but never went through with it.

reply to post by kevinunknown



I dont know any 'stats' on the number of armed response police, but do know that there are a few, as their response times quite quick.

Anyway, for the sake of the arguement-

say 1 in 10 police officers carry a gun... Then that means theres a 1 in 10 chance of that weapon being used.
Now if all 10 officers carry guns, then its likely that 10 weapons may be used.

Now obviously they've had training, and now procedure etc, but whats the point of giving everyone a gun?

It wouldnt SOLVE anything.

Using the Moat story as an example, police had numerous chances to catch him, as he returned to fiends houses to give them letters and to make phone calls.

This is the failed police procedure that which should be high-lighted.
Not a case of; - if all the cops had guns, we could have shot him quicker.

Now you could mention Byrd who killed 12 people with a legal weapon.
Armed response where called, but yet again, he slipped through the 'net' to carry-on killing which resulted in him commiting suicide.

What I noticed on BOTH these events is the convoy of police cars. All bunched up.
Concentrating on one area instead of widening the search.

Carrying a gun wouldnt make any diffrence to ''detective'' skills, other than making situations more inflammable.

No our police should not be armed because they are nothing but thugs nowadays.

Yes i've seen them starting trouble to justifiy the overtime and we get little teenage pricks spraying CS-Spray in peoples faces because they won't jump when they are told.

Our police are ten up on hittlers SS and lets talk about the man in the street being allowed to defend his own property with a gun because the police won't do the job they are being paid to do before giving them guns.

Our CID can investigate the massive fraud that allows 3/4 of policemen to retire by the age of 50 and they can stop keep telling us how the CCTVs stoped working when they kill people like Ian tomlinson.

The police no longer have the backing of the public who have reported crime to them only to see the lads on steriods more interested in going out on a rut on saterday night than dealing with a report.