Free will v.s Gods will

reply to post by hippomchippo


Isn't there a difference betwene knowing how everything works, and watching things work out? I mean, God wants us to serve Him, He doesn't make us...sooo???

I would like someone to show the scripture that says God planned all of our individual lives.
I can find one that says he knows the very beginings of us as babes in the belly...but, yeah...

I feel this IDEA of PREDESTINATION is bunk...and I say that as a christian
(I use that term with the way that, I TRY to be christlike...not that I am christlike...but its good to have goals! )


[edit on 8-7-2010 by Xcouncil=wisdom]

Originally posted by teraform
I would like to discuss peoples views on this.

1-Free will, one who is in contoll of his own destiny knows what will happen if one does or does not.

2-Gods will, people of faith who belives God is in contoll of everything and nothing you do can change fate.

So which one are you and why?you cannot be both even though a lot people think they are.

FREE WILL the ability to do what one wants, with the consequences to be the burden of the person performing the action

God's Will the way God wishes you to be to chose to Love him with all your body mind and soul. To abhor evil and everything the God hates.
In the end every Knee shall bow and Every tongue confess the Jesus is Lord.

You definition of God's will is not correct.

We each have a free will to chose to Live for God and to do that which is written in the Bible (which is his word) or not to do his will.

The end result will be Heaven or Hell for the eternal soul and the story will play out as the Bible says but which part YOU play is your choice.

Some will even change parts at the last minute.

I believe in and follow "Free Will". I do not follow a religion or God in the Bible. I do believe in a Creator/Great Spirit. She/he gave me a brain to think and a heart to know the difference between good and bad. Love and Peace can never be replaced by anything other than what it is!

reply to post by slugger9787


I don't think I could come up with a better answer than this!!! Good answer slugger.

However, here's my two cents. Our Free will at times, hinders God's manifesting His love toward us, or rather our receiving it because we are to busy with the things of the world and ourselves for God's absolute Will to come into full maturity. God is love! His desire is to bless and show people His love. We are the ones who stop this flow.

It was not the Will and Word of God, for Adam to disobey God. God commanded "Thou shalt not eat of it." Adam disobeyed because of free will. Could God stop Adam from eating? No! God is a just God and must obey His own Will. And, His Will was for man to have "FREE WILL!"

That is Love! Trusting us to obey Him. When we do not obey Him, we are the ones breaking that trust!

reply to post by Cor Leonis

Gods will:

How could God not have known Adam would'nt eat the apple?He knew he would thats why the tree was there in the first place.

Thanks for all the responses,I would love to here more from others,please dont forget to let me know which side your on.
Thanks

Boethius explains how you can have both:

There are two kinds of necessity, one simple, as for example the fact that it is necessary that all men are mortal; and one conditional, as for example, if you know someone is walking, it is necessary that he is walking.

Book v, Consolation of Philosophy

These things when considered with reference to God's sight of them do happen necessarily as a result of the condition of divine knowledge; but when considered in themselves they do not lose the absolute freedom of their nature.

God sees things from eternity, and just as man sees things in his present time but does not affect these things as they are occurring, so God sees things from Eternity but does not impose His will upon man, even though His vision can not be deceived and knows all things not from present events but from an Eternal view point.

So that it is better called providence or "looking forth" than prevision or "seeing before hand.

[edit on 9-7-2010 by filosophia]

reply to post by teraform


First of all I did not say God did not know. I basically said God was not going to stop the will of man.

Secondly, out of all the posts on your thread, why is my post the only one you question?

What is it you want me to agree with you about? And, is the only ones that agree with you, the only ones that are safe? I gave you my best insight, like everyone else.

You accepted everyone elses, but mine. Well, take it or leave it like all others you took or left.

reply to post by teraform


And, if you are going to quote someone, then quote them and don't put words in their mouth.

Originally posted by Xcouncil=wisdom
reply to post by queenannie38

 

I love it when we can agree on something...

I think we do right?

yes, we do!!
i love it, too - it is a wonderful thing to agree...each of our own free will!

God is all powerful, and CAN know anything He wants to know...but, is loving enough to allow us to make our own paths...if He can use us he will, if not, there will be others.

But, His will, will be done

yes, in DEED.


i remember when i first fully realized the magnitude of GOD's power...i had a brief time when i did not believe our will was free simply because mine was dwarfed by his and i was literally awe-struck. for almost 3 months, a certain passage in the book of Daniel repeated itself in my head, over and over.

Daniel 4:
(34) And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
(35) And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
(36) At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.
(37) Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

in the months and years following, GOD led me to understand, and experience, the beauty of free will. the human soul, being part of GOD's spirit but in a somewhat autonomous form, possesses great power in the will because through us, GOD creates and manipulates our physical environment. but it is never one-sided if we choose to partner up with him; and if we join with him, miracles make themselves known as not only possible but probable.

but we must do just as Jesus did in the garden and sincerely desire "not my will but thine."

i discovered that the most difficult challenge to the human will was to surrender it, of it's own free choice. it is a leap of faith but a guaranteed one, at that.

most people think that if they submit to GOD's will over their own, that they will lose their personal sovereignty, but that's not the case.

what happens is that GOD empowers our own will with his and while our choices remain free and totally our own decision, they are guided, without any sacrifice of freedom, with his perfect love and acceptance of what we desire.

GOD made us after his own image so it follows that if GOD's will is free, so is man's.

the age-old debate between omnipotence and human free will traditionally only sees the possible answers as either GOD is all powerful or else our will isn't free.

both are in error and the answer to the puzzle is that GOD has free will, too. this means that sure, GOD could, at any time, supersede any man's will and take over as puppet master, with man his puppet. but GOD chooses NOT to do so.

having the power to do something is one thing and the choice to actually do it, or not, is another thing altogether.

to me, that's just another evidence of divine magnanimosity.

reply to post by Cor Leonis


Iam sorry did'nt mean to offend you,That part caught my eye and really got me thinking,I do have other questions just havent thought them out fully.
Thank you for being part of this thread

As a parent, I know that my ten year old is getting a D+ in math.
He does not study. He chooses to watch tv instead.
I know the future consequences for his grade in math, I whisper to him, Like God does to me sometimes, to study, but I do not interfere in his freedom or choice and his free will. I know this coming summer he will be in summer school for math.
So this relationship with my child is a micro example of Gods relationship with his children on earth.
Sure enough, he takes summer school, and next school year he studies and makes a B+ in math.

There are two ways to know the existence of God:
Conscience and science.
Conscience is the moral law of God written inside, on your psyche, soul.
Science is the sovereign law of God, external via creation, displayed throughout the universe.
Free will exercised in compliance to Gods moral will written inside of me on my conscience is the path to eternal peace.
My physical, emotional desires, urges, cravings, lusts, addictions, vices are at odds with my Spiritual nature. My free will in conjunction with my conscience, is rationally employed to help me expend my energies in this life on earth, to as closely as possible, follow Gods Moral will.

I need to find Gods Moral Will, found in his word, and reign in my will to parallel His will.

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen.

--Reinhold Niebuhr

Just for the record, I agree with a lot of what you say Queenannie.

As for my opinion, I don't really know how to explain it, but I'll try. I think there may be an ideal path for us, but we have the free will to take it or not. We can make mistakes and bad decisions so that we learn the best course of action in the future. There are so many people in jail and I don't think they got there because it was predestined for them to be there. They made a bad decision somewhere and ended up there. I guess it's like how our parents are with us. They tell us the best way to do something, but if we decide to do otherwise they'll say, do what you want to do then. And when we screw up then we have to deal with the consequences and with them saying, "See, I told you so."

reply to post by slugger9787


Ive never thought about it that way but thats a great way to look at that. I completely agree with you.

Do we have free will ?

A lot of recent research has shown that it is often our brain that unconsciously makes decisions for us. Often up to 7 seconds before we are consciously aware of them.

We may not have the ability to stop these subconscious processes from initiating, but we may have some control over them before we act on them .

I believe the term " free won`t" has been used to describe this act of arresting actions based on these subconscious decision making processes.

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The original study was conducted by Libets, on what he termed our "readiness-potential"

recent study ....... Max Planck Institute

Unconscious Decisions in the Brain PhysOrg.com

"Our study shows that decisions are unconsciously prepared much longer ahead than previously thought. But we do not know yet where the final decision is made. We need to investigate whether a decision prepared by these brain areas can still be reversed."

[edit on 10-7-2010 by UmbraSumus]

reply to post by UmbraSumus


Please start a new thread for this line of thinking, that is unless your brain decides differently for you.

reply to post by UmbraSumus


i understand what you are saying and it's something i've thought upon quite a bit at different times. it reminds me of one of my favorite buddhist proverbs:

Learn to respond instead of react.

Originally posted by slugger9787
reply to post by UmbraSumus

 

Please start a new thread for this line of thinking, that is unless your brain decides differently for you.

"this line of thinking" ......... is relevant to the O.P and in keeping with the motto of the site .

The research i linked , i believe added a different perspective to the topic, if that is at odds with your particular belief system then that is your issue not mine.

Now slugger , have a good night -..... that is unless your god decides differently for you .

Deny Ignorance.

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Originally posted by queenannie38
reply to post by UmbraSumus

 

i understand what you are saying and it's something i've thought upon quite a bit at different times. it reminds me of one of my favorite buddhist proverbs:

Learn to respond instead of react.

That simple proverb has a lot of practical wisdom in it . I dare say halve of lives daily strife's, could be assuaged by its message.