82 year old man faces 1st degree murder charges for defending his life and property.

Originally posted by rival

Originally posted by ahmonrarh

Originally posted by woogleuk
reply to post by SquirrelNutz

 

anybody can be rehabilitated, what chance does the dead guy have now?

REALLY?!

That's odd, the guy who robbed me at gunpoint who's now on trial thanks to me, spent time in prison for drug trafficking just prior, hmm....me thinks "prison rehab" fails. oh well, he gets to try again this time.

and to answer the question: reincarnation perhaps.

edit: their status' made them law breakers from the door. them choosing to complicate their situations by doing more illegal activities made them DARWIN nominees.....one already won his award.

the surviving thief needs to be charged with murder instead, evident that he was the driver of the vehicle in commission of a crime at the time his partner was killed, since he dropped off his friend at the hopsital.

i'm sure the dead one didnt drive himself to the hospital.


[edit on 9-7-2010 by ahmonrarh]

Okay, where are YOU going to draw the line??

Is it okay to kill an employee for stealing a pencil?
Is it okay to kill a child for stealing candy?
Is it okay to kill a man for stealing your trash can"
Is it okay to kill a man for stealing food?
Is it okay to kill a man for robbing a bank?
Is it okay to kill a white collar criminal for stealing a pension fund?

Just trying to get you to THINK. Your reaction is emotional...
like the old man's...now he is up for murder.

Honest question though...where is YOUR line?

One last bit...if you believe it is okay to kill a thief in the act, then I say
(and I'm not religious) LET HE WHO HAS NEVER STOLEN CAST THE
FIRST BULLET.....cue the cricket chirping!!




[edit on 9-7-2010 by rival]

How about drawing the line at a felony, Isaac Newton. Or, at the very least, staying off of MY property when you perpetrate a crime.

Don't be obtuse. Stealing a vehicle, and almost running a man over on his own damn property, is not a pencil, or candy, or food or a trash can - use your damn head.

[Yes, robbing a bank is an 'active' crime - shoot the #er to stop him - damn right.
No, stealing a pension fund is a 'passive' crime - probably over by the time you find out about it so even though as bad as a bank robbery, reactionary/protection shooting turns into pre-meditated]

Do you actually think about your diatribes before you type them, or just spout any bullsh|t that sounds like it supports your side of the argument, and try to beat people into submission with syntax?

Goodbye, now.






[edit on 7/9/2010 by SquirrelNutz]

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by mryanbrown

 

Thank you for your response.

Would you agree that if the 'gentlemen' had stayed off his property and not stolen his trailer that the shooting probably would not have happened?

Would you agree that numerous murderers have been acquitted of any crimes in the past because their Miranda rights were not administered, or even were not administered 'properly'?

Would you agree that the 'gentlemen' stole his trailer and have not been charged with a crime? ( the remaining one anyway)

BTW I gave you a star for your thoughtful response.

Peace.

If they hadn't had committed theft, of course they wouldn't be in the situation. That doesn't make the old mans actions correct or noble with the best intentions.

He shot at someone in anger, while not in danger and the person died. That is 2nd degree murder. It's unfortunate because he was initially the victim. But his choice in the matters ultimately created a second victim who suffered more.

And I do agree murderers have been acquitted in the past for not being read their Miranda rights. There are also extenuating circumstances to those cases though, not entirely based upon Miranda rights being read. However this is an internal decision based around administrative statutes or process. Not an actual law requiring they be read to an individual/suspect.

Sadly it also seems possible that they have not been charged due to the old mans shifting story. If they hold him, they must charge him and prosecute. With conflicting accounts of the story they more than likely released him pending a further investigation to get the proper account of events to charge him with.

[edit on 9-7-2010 by mryanbrown]

reply to post by mryanbrown
Very well.

Keep in mind that the man is 82 years old. My mom is only 77 and you should hear it when she tells a story. She doesn't have dementia either.

reply to post by Survivorman

Not to mention that the 2 thieves are possibly illegals....insane times we are living in.

You story had credibility until you threw this attempt at labelling into the bargain. They could be possibly gay ETs for all you know. Don't destroy a perfectly cagent argument by throwing your own racial discriminatory biases/bigatories into the case. You are just trying to scare-monger, which makes your article no better than the government controlled media.

[edit on 9-7-2010 by acrux]

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by mryanbrown

 

Very well.

Keep in mind that the man is 82 years old. My mom is only 77 and you should hear it when she tells a story. She doesn't have dementia either.

He shouldn't be sent to prison. I understand his age, and hope at most he's convicted of manslaughter and placed on probation with no time served.

Just as a social notice that it's not okay to shoot people because you're angry. Without holding him fully accountable taking in special considerations.

reply to post by acrux
I don't believe that he used race.
Illegal is more of a 'legal' term.

Now if had said 'Mexican', that would be 'ethnic' terminology.

If he had used 'of Amerind/Caucasoid/Negroid ancestry', then we would be talking race.

ETA: I used that racial mix because that is my racial makeup.
I am not Hispanic, though.





[edit on 9-7-2010 by butcherguy]

reply to post by mryanbrown
I don't know that he was angry, but you are correct about the legality of shooting someone just because you are angry.

I brought up the age issue with regard to his 'flexible' story that he gave to the investigating officers.

Originally posted by nataylor
Read the police report: www.khow.com...

The guy lied to the police. Repeatedly. That's not very smart.

This is an awesome find. Just goes to show, that people jump to conclusions without having known the facts.

This guy, for all we know, might have a past record. Being 82, does not mean you deserve any special treatment!

He lied, and so, he made the bed he lies in!

He is guilty they posed no physical threat to him,I'm shocked some value a crappy old trailer over a human life,he did a stupid thing now he has to pay the consequences,ignorant move on his part,what insurance is for,but at 82 what is life in prison?

He was protecting what's his. Granted he could've placed the bullets elsewhere but this is a lesson learned don't steal from people. Too bad these guys had to learn the hard way.

Originally posted by boondock-saint
when the system starts protecting the criminals
instead of the victims, then it's time for a new system.

Shooting someone is a crime. Even in self-defense.

Self-defense is a legal defense, but only after you've been charged and enter a plea in court.

And if the bullet holes were in the BACK of the truck...well, then, the old man wasn't acting in self-defense at all.

If you want the cops to decide on the spot whether or not a crime has taken place, then why bother with courts?

you do have it lucky in America however. A few years back in the UK, two guys broke into a house of a farmer, and he shot one dead in his own house. He has convicted of murder and sent to jail. We here are suppose to do nothing if a robber ever breaks in to your house, let them do what they want then phone the police whi never do nothing as house breaking is seen as a petty crime. It is a disgrace

I honestly don't know much about the law, but a co-worker of mine has a bit of knowledge in the area.

I once thought about purchasing a pistol for home protection reasons. When the economy hits a double recession, it's very dangerous to live in a good neighborhood. It's usually the rich suburban areas that gets robbed most often.

Anyway, so I was sort of just joking about it and said that I would shoot to kill anyone attempting to break into my house and steal my stuff.

Well, my co-worker told me that would be man slaughter and it is a crime.

Not sure if he is right or wrong, since he's no lawyer I'll take it with a grain of salt.

But what he said did make sense somewhat. He pretty much said that you can shoot to kill, but only if you can prove in court that at that exact moment, the criminal had some type of deadly weapon in hand and is about to threaten your life with it.

If you can prove this, then yes you may use deadly force. However if you cannot, then it is considered a crime for shoot to kill.

Not sure if he's right or wrong, but I think you can't just bust out your shot gun from WalMart and start blasting away at people who steal your car... You call the Police, that's what they're here for...

Believe me, I'm against illegal immigration as much as the next honest citizen. But there are some things you do and certain things you do not. Getting your gun out to shoot dangerous criminals is not your civic duty. It also sound kind of harsh shooting to kill someone stealing your properties. 82 year old man or not, he could be a trigger happy 82 year old red neck.

I'm just saying, there's two sides to that coin.

If that old man doesn't go to prison and is back at his home, word of mouth will mark his home as a place you don't want to try and steal from. Since word of mouth won't describe the address properly, that may translate to the entire block or neighborhood.

Imagine if all would-be thieves were too scared to steal for fear of being shot or killed by property owners/tenants?

Police will shoot an unarmed suspect that is trying to flee. The LEO doesn't have to feel threatened. If the suspect is killed, they call it justifiable homicide...after a token "investigation" and grand jury of course.

Too bad the criminal died. His family has my condolences.

Originally posted by rival

Originally posted by ahmonrarh

Originally posted by woogleuk
reply to post by SquirrelNutz

 

anybody can be rehabilitated, what chance does the dead guy have now?

REALLY?!

That's odd, the guy who robbed me at gunpoint who's now on trial thanks to me, spent time in prison for drug trafficking just prior, hmm....me thinks "prison rehab" fails. oh well, he gets to try again this time.

and to answer the question: reincarnation perhaps.

edit: their status' made them law breakers from the door. them choosing to complicate their situations by doing more illegal activities made them DARWIN nominees.....one already won his award.

the surviving thief needs to be charged with murder instead, evident that he was the driver of the vehicle in commission of a crime at the time his partner was killed, since he dropped off his friend at the hopsital.

i'm sure the dead one didnt drive himself to the hospital.


[edit on 9-7-2010 by ahmonrarh]

Okay, where are YOU going to draw the line??

Is it okay to kill an employee for stealing a pencil?
Is it okay to kill a child for stealing candy?
Is it okay to kill a man for stealing your trash can"
Is it okay to kill a man for stealing food?
Is it okay to kill a man for robbing a bank?
Is it okay to kill a white collar criminal for stealing a pension fund?

Just trying to get you to THINK. Your reaction is emotional...
like the old man's...now he is up for murder.

Honest question though...where is YOUR line?

One last bit...if you believe it is okay to kill a thief in the act, then I say
(and I'm not religious) LET HE WHO HAS NEVER STOLEN CAST THE
FIRST BULLET.....cue the cricket chirping!!

[edit on 9-7-2010 by rival]

You aren't thinking at all if you "think" that the examples in your list are comparable to what these two thieves were doing.

These thieves learned a hard lesson. I hope they spread the word around so that other would-be thieves think twice before doing what they did.

Originally posted by woogleuk
reply to post by SquirrelNutz

 

anybody can be rehabilitated, what chance does the dead guy have now?

WRONG. what kind of fairytale do you live in? show me the numbers on that.

Originally posted by woogleuk
reply to post by SquirrelNutz

 

its not like he was a rapist or kiddy fiddler (to the best of my knowledge), he was a common theif, what right does anybody have to end someones life over theft? you only have one life.

so you believe rapists and pedos can be rehabbed?

Originally posted by woogleuk
reply to post by SquirrelNutz

 

I don't agree with theft, but i also don't agree with murder, which this old guy is guilty of.

who died?! the article says ATTEMPTED MURDER. has there been a late breaking update?

Originally posted by woogleuk
reply to post by SquirrelNutz

 

EDIT: what the heckers does him being an illegal alien have to do with anything??? does that make him not human and not subject to the same rights as other human beings????

no, it just it makes them even MORE criminal... human beings that is.

and by they way, i must disagree with your sentiment on gun control. guns are way cool. they help keep away the crims until they are captured and can be rehabilitated.












[edit on 9/7/2010 by gravykraken]

I know in Buffalo this store owner went to jail for shooting thieves as they left the store. If you shoot them as they are leaving, its illegal my dad told me, he's attorney

Originally posted by spiritualgirl
I know in Buffalo this store owner went to jail for shooting thieves as they left the store. If you shoot them as they are leaving, its illegal my dad told me, he's attorney

Can you shoot a rapist as he's zipping up his pants or as he's leaving the scene? What says your dad on that score?

[edit on 7/9/2010 by dubiousone]

Originally posted by thedarktower
you do have it lucky in America however. A few years back in the UK, two guys broke into a house of a farmer, and he shot one dead in his own house. He has convicted of murder and sent to jail. We here are suppose to do nothing if a robber ever breaks in to your house, let them do what they want then phone the police whi never do nothing as house breaking is seen as a petty crime. It is a disgrace

I agree, things are far too soft uk side, however the case you refer to, is often lost in translation - in actual fact Mr Martin from Norfolk, I believe - chased the two robbers from his property - the threat to his life excuse now of no relevance - he then shot dead the 16 year old kid by a shotgun blast to the back.

The part that I can not believe is the fact the Mexican

WAS NOT CHARGED WITH ANYTHING!!!!

: