9/11, The Consequences of Truth.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade

It would seem foolish to engage with us at all. Indeed it would seem foolish to waste time on this forum. Your government has just murdered a few thousand Americans so that it could slaughter many thousands more foreigners. Surely our time would be better spent in organisation, instead of arguing the toss again and again with debunkers? Or is it more important to feel like you're right than to actually do something?

Whining is all thye're good for. They're chickens, crying about their all powerful foe.

www.monbiot.com...

"The obvious corollorary to the belief that the Bush administration is all-powerful is that the rest of us are completely powerless. In fact it seems to me that the purpose of the “9/11 truth movement” is to be powerless. The omnipotence of the Bush regime is the coward’s fantasy, an excuse for inaction used by those who don’t have the stomach to engage in real political fights.

Let me give you an example. The column I wrote about Loose Change two weeks ago generated 777 posts on Comment is Free, which is almost a record. Most of them were furious.. The response from a producer of the film, published last week, attracted 467(2). On the same day I published an article about a genuine, demonstrable conspiracy: a spy network feeding confidential information from an arms control campaign to Britain’s biggest weapons manufacturer, BAE. It drew 60 responses(3). The members of the 9/11 cult weren’t interested. If they were, they might have had to do something. The great virtue of a fake conspiracy is that it calls on you to do nothing.

The 9/11 conspiracy theories are a displacement activity. A displacement activity is something you do because you feel incapable of doing what you ought to do. A squirrel sees a larger squirrel stealing its hoard of nuts. Instead of attacking its rival, it sinks its teeth into a tree and starts ripping it to pieces. Faced with the mountainous challenge of the real issues we must confront, the chickens in the “truth” movement focus instead on a fairytale, knowing that nothing they do or say will count, knowing that because the perpetrators don’t exist, they can’t fight back. They demonstrate their courage by repeatedly bayoneting a scarecrow."



Bayoneting a scarecrow...... that's all the TM can muster up.....

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by Joey Canoli

 

Oh come on there would be anarchy on the streets that is for sure and the Middle East would cut all diplomatic relations with America and the rest of the international community would be forced to act.

The film "9-11 press for truth" has enough evidence in it to call for
a criminal investigation into evidence tampering.

Google Video Link

The 9-11 commission themselves said there was evidence of a
cover up.

Look at the Sibel Edmonds case.

Sibel Edmonds

Watch the PBS documentary about John P. Oneill - The man who knew.

John P. O'neill - the man who knew

It EASILY becomes obvious that a lot of information prior to 911
was kept out of the loop so that 911 would happen.

How deep the rabbit hole goes I have no idea, but it is obvious
that some of this was planned.

Good Luck to you all, we are all gonna need it...

reply to post by Joey Canoli


That's an interesting piece. I don't have a lot of time for Monbiot usually, but he's spot-on there. I'd only add that there's a further difference between the two conspiracies he mentions.

9/11 Truth tidies things up for people. It puts the scary, messy world into a big meta-narrative that can then be comfortably consumed by a frightened mind. Humans create narratives naturally, as a kind of therapy for Jungian psychological issues.

Your subconscious cheers for Bruce Willis as he shoots the bad guys because it on some level sympathises with his problems - no matter how hyperbolic they are - and enjoys seeing them solved. Likewise 9/11 Truth "solves" 9/11 - and by extension some problems of modernity - for some people. Their subconscious can then tidy it away.

The other conspiracy doesn't solve anything. It makes stuff more complicated, more frightening. And as Monbiot says, it requires action. The mind tends to recoil from that stuff.

reply to post by TrickoftheShade

Moreover, does it really seem likely that the government would pay people to post on ATS?

Military Report: Secretly ‘Recruit or Hire Bloggers’

www.wired.com...

Absolutely and why not, they have the manpower and the money.

It would seem foolish to engage with us at all. Indeed it would seem foolish to waste time on this forum.

Really, you spend a lot of time here.

Your government has just murdered a few thousand Americans so that it could slaughter many thousands more foreigners.

It doesn’t matter what their reason are, the fact is our government is quite capable of doing a false flag and covering it up.

Surely our time would be better spent in organisation, instead of arguing the toss again and again with debunkers?

I actually agree with you on this quote.

Or is it more important to feel like you're right than to actually do something?

Try asking yourself that question.

No one seems to think that if it wasn't for the debunkers they'd be marching on Capitol Hill.

The debunkers have not debunked anything yet, and they certainly were not able to prove the OS true.

ATS works as a containment system for truthers, with or without debunkers.

This is twisted thinking aimed at alienating people who may not have seen all of the available evidence. You just object to the fact that ATS allows the posting of evidence that tends to disproves the governments OS and promotes meaningful discussion of that evidence.

[edit on 21-7-2010 by impressme]

reply to post by kevinunknown


Wow!…I think this is the first post I’ve read here on ATS where one of the resident anti-Truthers has acknowledged even the possibility of a 9/11 scenario that didn’t fully conform with the US government’s official conspiracy theory.

And thanks for sharing your fears. Personally I have much more respect for a debunker who is genuinely concerned that if the truth was admitted it would cause social and economic chaos, rather than one who was merely trolling or being paid to spread lies and confusion.

But the scenario you present is very unlikely in a number of respects.

It is pretty clear that no amount of ‘proof’, whatever it’s nature, could force the perpetrators to admit their true motives and actions.
A document?…forgery. A video?…CGI. Witness testimony?…here are five witnesses who saw something different. A story that’s not logically or rationally acceptable?…You’re all a bunch of tinfoil hat wearing wingnut morons who hate America.

But you know, I think if the perpetrators fully repented, stopped spinning the BS, explained why what they did was the only practical way to do something that had to be done, and declared that if people had the goodness to forgive them they would henceforth work solely for the good of humanity, and never again employ deceit, then people wouldn’t be rioting in the streets…they’d be out there cheering!

And BTW, 9/11 certainly was used as a justification to invade Afghanistan. But as the Iraq invasion has shown, the US government doesn’t need elaborate and expensive ‘terrorist operations’ to justify military action.
All it needs is ‘fawlty intelligence’.
Personally, I don’t believe the US government was deeply involved…a handful of operatives, maybe even only one. G.W. Bush had no inkling of what was going down. It was primarily a commercial operation organized by a small group of high-rollers. Just some of my own opinions, but what I’m saying is loosen up that tightly defined conspiracy agenda you suggest in the opening of your OP.

If you don’t know what to believe, don’t just listen to different conspiracy theories and choose between them… Think for yourself…ask questions…look for the answers…put the pieces together…
It must be terrible to have to accept something you don’t even believe in.

[edit on 24-7-2010 by aethron]

Originally posted by impressme

Military Report: Secretly ‘Recruit or Hire Bloggers’

www.wired.com...

Absolutely and why not, they have the manpower and the money.

I can see why one might hire a blogger. This isn't a blog.

Really, you spend a lot of time here.

But my motives for engaging with you are different from yours for engaging with me, I assume.

And I'm merely pointing out that it seems stupid to try to convert and converse with someone who you think doesn't even believe what they're saying.

If you truly believe that I and other debunkers are paid then why argue? You can't possibly "win".

Or is it more important to feel like you're right than to actually do something?

Try asking yourself that question.

For me it's more important to be right.

But, you see, I don't have to do anything. I don't believe that the US government got away with mass murder. I don't want a new investigation. My side are winning. Ergo I can sit on message boards doing nothing about it.

The debunkers have not debunked anything yet, and they certainly were not able to prove the OS true.

They don't have to. It's de facto the "truest" thing until you successfully refute it. And that refutation will have to become common currency as well. Good luck. You'll need it if your method is to, er, argue with people on ATS about it.

This is twisted thinking aimed at alienating people who may not have seen all of the available evidence. You just object to the fact that ATS allows the posting of evidence that tends to disproves the governments OS and promotes meaningful discussion of that evidence.

[edit on 21-7-2010 by impressme]

That touched a nerve, right?

My point stands. If you think the government murdered all those people, what are you doing about it?

Chatting about it with govt agents whose minds you cannot possibly change? Or doing something concrete?

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade

Chatting about it with govt agents whose minds you cannot possibly change? Or doing something concrete?

Touche. Well said. Doing something concrete would mean...well....doing something. What can you do when you have exhausted the short list of what you WANT to do? The latest Big Time court case, the hilarious April Gallop case, ended with Judge Denny Chin tossing it out on its keister and using words like "fanciful" and "frivolous" and "fantasy" and "delusion" to describe the merits of the case.

What can you do? Pretend to be a 21st century Lear and yell and curse at the digital wind - or in this case, get on ATS or some other obscure and meaningless Internet discussion board and argue the aforementioned "fanciful" and "frivolous" and "fantasy" and "delusion"-laden "facts" of your case. It keeps you from having to...you know....actually *do* something.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by trebor451]

reply to post by trebor451


I don't know the circumstances of the April Gallop case. It seems odd that there aren't more threads here discussing what must surely have been the stitch-up of the century, given the presumably "unimpeachable strength" of the evidence. Perhaps I just missed them.

The nature of the activities of the majority of Truthers was brought home to me the other day when I watched a documentary on UK TV about the 7/7 bombings. The show had obviously started out as an examination of paranormal events surrounding the explosions - "angels" leading people out, "coincidences" such as doctors being on hand, that sort of stuff.

But at the last moment it seemed like an editorial decision had been taken to rein in that aspect. It remained in certain hints, and in the trails for the programme, but in the end the documentary itself didn't have the courage to follow through its own - frankly risible - conclusions.

I think this is because when the people who'd formed the ideas about divine intervention realised that they were dealing with real life, with real people and a subject of extreme seriousness, they basically balked at reproducing concepts that even they, deep down, knew were bunk.

To me this is why the "Truth" about 9/11 pretty much vanishes outside the anonymity of the internet, and why I genuinely applaud those who are prepared to go out and do something about their (pretty wacky) notions.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
Those of you who refute the official story are on a constant quest to uncover the truth, expose the conspiracy and seek real justice for the families. I personally do not believe the official 9/11 story but in the absence of a conspiracy theory that has convinced me otherwise it will have to do. This however is not the point of this thread, the point is to speculate as to the possible consequences of the alleged 9/11 truth. Let us suppose for a moment, that someone out there in the vastness of the internet has found proof that proves without any doubt that 9/11 was a false flag operation entirely conducted and planed by conspirators with in the Bush administration to give justification to their domestic and foreign policy. By this I mean a document with G.W Bush’s figure prints all over it that proved the conspiracy theories to be correct beyond any doubt, what would happen?

Thanks

The problem is expecting a document to PROVE something.

Understanding Newtonian physics provides the PROOF.

But lots of people understanding that drags in our entire educational system and nitwits who claim they understand the physics. The JREF Retards keep repeating STATIC & DYNAMIC, STATIC & DYNAMIC.

This has become an insane global religion. The US would look totally ridiculous if grade school kids all over the world comprehend why an airliner could not cause that much destruction in less than 2 hours.

True comprehension might cause a greater psychological shock than the original 9/11 event. It is the Piltdown Man incident of the 21st century. As it is the people who claim to understand physics must keep other people from comprehending physics. How can they admit making a mistake so stupid for eight years?

You can ask how I could admit making it but I can point out that we are missing simple data on the towers. The BELIEVERS can't even tell us the weight of the floor assemblies they claim pancaked.

psik

reply to post by TrickoftheShade





[edit on 1-8-2010 by impressme]

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