More Misery For Mustangs

an anecdote about Mustangs

when I was moving here I was staying with various people from the internet instead of hotels one of the places I stayed was this Wild Horse Sanctuary in Shingleton

Nicest people I've ever met they rescue Mustangs they have 5,000 acres and it is WOW! gorgeous there ! honestly it looks like Heaven. They strive to let their horses live like they would in the wild They use birth control on the mares but they allow 30 babies a year .there are bands of stallions and mares

I stayed in their beautiful Bunkhouse, for two days instead of the overnite that was on my schedule. The bunkhouse faces a enchanting 150 acre pasture with a lake with ducks and trees in the back you could stare at this all day and still not believe it's a real place .

anyway in this pasture were five of the most beautiful mustang fillies ,and I had been watching them running and playing and one in particular was breathtaking ,and she was GAITED! I told the owner that was the most perfect group of babies I had ever seen ! Anyway she was really nice nice she said wander around the place but don't bother the stallion mare bands and we're trying to get those fillies approachable blah blah

So I took her at her word and took a walk to go visit the wild fillies, I followed the fence line to the back of the pasture and on my way I met a stallion and his mares with some new borns (they were on the other side) and I paused a minutes to look at them and take cellphone pics of them . I lingered a little to long Mr Stallion raised hid head and put himself between me and his family as if to say 'that's far enough two legs' I said point taken! and continued on to the fillies I found an outcropping of rock a distance away from them sat down ,didn't look at fillies and started playing ringtones on my cell phone

the fillies we're mesmerized by that LOL! THEY CAME RIGHT UP TO ME !
They were just fascinated by the rigtones they all wanted to see the phone and hear the sounds,Realize I am still sitting on the rock, so one of the little bay ones actually touched me and then the Big beautiful gaited one that was in charge said that's enough of this and for a minute I was surrounded by whirling hooves and they all took off! They didn't go far though! LOL! It was so cute. I was hot and thirsty by then so I went back to the bunkhouse

So anyway if you want a Mustang adventure go to the Wild Horse Sanctuary during the tourist season if you love horses , They could use the money and you'll have the time of your life!! they give trailrides and breakfasts and whatnot. I didn't do all that but I had blast anyway they are a great organization well worth helping

wait there's more!

case you were wondering how the deck gets stacked against Mustangs
check out this ridiculous document submitted by one of the anti Mustang
ATSers

in fws.gov


now they are arguing that Mustangs are destroying archeological relics

Determination of Effect and Recommendations- Undertaking Part A The majority of the known areas where congregations of horses occur have been surveyed for cultural resources, and the data indicates that feral horses concentrating at water sources are inflicting damage to known prehistoric archaeological sites, representing an adverse effect on resources eligible to be historic properties. Maps illustrating where horse trampled areas coincide with cultural resources are included in Appendix A. Due to the protected status of archaeological site location information, these maps are not to be publically distributed. Three areas -- Big Spring Creek, Catnip Creek, and Hobble Spring -- have not been systematically surveyed by archaeologists, although there is one petroglyph site recorded near Hobble Spring. Given their proximity to permanent water, these places have a high potential for the presence of prehistoric archaeological sites. It is recommended that systematic survey in these locations be conducted (Figure 11 and Appendix B). Future management planning would benefit from additional research into the presence of cultural resources at all horse concentration points. The most effective mitigation measure for the adverse effect of horse trampling on archaeological sites on the refuge would be their complete removal from the vicinity of sites. This measure is partially fulfilled by the activities associated with Undertaking Parts B and C, described following. Figure

such as a corral formerly used to CAPTURE MUSTANGS!! IRONIC ISN'T IT?
from page 11 of the " official document"

The presence of feral horses was serendipitous and provided another way to eke out a living in the harsh desert. Though not the raison d’etre of their operations, some ranchers took advantage of the opportunity to round up the horses and sell them. In 1891, Eugene Gooch established a livestock operation which was strategically located to gather, trap, and ship feral horses. “Gooch Camp” is located in a narrow canyon between Gooch Table and Catnip Mountain historically known to harbor herds of feral horses (Figure 6). Marge Stephen, a member of the Dufurrena family that once owned Gooch Camp and other ranches on Sheldon NWR, described the horse operation at Gooch Camp in the early 20th century. She said the buckaroos drove the feral horses off the mountains into the canyon, the walls of which served to concentrate the herd. Barbed wire drift fences or “wings” ran down the canyon walls and led the horses toward Gooch Camp. The buckaroos banged tin cans which dangled from the fence to scare the horses onward. The wing fences funneled the horses into a round corral built with milled lumber, juniper posts, and sticks. The circular corral had no corners on which the frightened horses could have injured themselves (Pinger 1985:34). Figure

so Mustangs were a beneficial resource to early ranchers so we need to get rid of them to preserve the past??

redefining the wild horse and burro protection act Thank you Congress Spineless Panderers to Multinational corporate interests

however, the fact that these horses are the offspring of domesticated horses introduced to the area in the 1800s which subsequently escaped human control classifies them as feral animals. The horses and burros on Sheldon National Wildlife Refuge are managed under two sets of authorities. The Wild Free-roaming Horse and burro Act of 1971 defines “wild free-roaming horses and burros” as “all unbranded and unclaimed horses and burros on public lands of the United States.” The act goes on to define “public lands” as “any lands administered by the Secretary of the Interior through the Bureau of Land Management or by the Secretary of Agriculture through the Forest Service.” It is important to note that the Act specifically and purposefully excludes lands of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Horses and burros that stray onto the refuge from neighboring BLM lands remain “wild” and subject to management under the Wild Free-roaming Horses and Burro Act of 1971. These animals are managed cooperatively with BLM. The vast majority of horses and burros on Sheldon Refuge are considered to be residents. In other words, the refuge is large and the home range of the herd is contained within the refuge boundaries. These resident horses and burros are legally defined as feral, and managed following the regulations and policies of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (50 CFR 30.11-12, 7 RM 6, 601 FW 3). For the past 30 years the management of feral horses at Sheldon has been governed by the 1977 Sheldon Horse Management Plan EIA (FWS 1977), the 1980 Sheldon NWR Renewable Natural Resources Management Plan Final EIS (FWS 1980), and a 2000 Environmental Action Memorandum updating previous documents (FWS 2000). Feral horse management is also a topic of the Sheldon NWR Comprehensive Conservation Plan which was initiated in 2006 and which is expected to be completed in 2009. Sheldon NWR

so the Secretary of the Interior says there are no Mustangs and that's that

I'll be back to further shred this document, it's like shooting Mustangs in barrel

actually come join me me how many fallacies can you find?

[edit on 7/19/2010 by MrsBlonde]

[edit on 7/19/2010 by MrsBlonde]

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[edit on Thu Aug 12 2010 by DontTreadOnMe]

Crap


sorry I was trying to post a working link and I zigged when I shoulda zagged

anyway this link to the psuedo study works

[edit on 7/19/2010 by MrsBlonde]

a nice summation of what this thread is intended to say

AQHA uses spin and scare tactics to promote horse slaughter


just in case anyone thinks this is just me



[edit on 7/19/2010 by MrsBlonde]

Just to let you know I'm still following along. I can't contribute much in the way of informed commentary. I'm just taking it all in. A lot of the wording in the official documentation eludes me. I'm so remote from the issue geographically that I dont necessarily follow it as well as one might hope I would. They clearly play around with terms and classifications, I just don't understand necessarily what one classification vs. another means for the fate of a particular group of wild horses.

I have never seen these sites so I couldn't say if horses could be destroying significant sites but if so, can't they fence them out? Here, deer are the bane of public and private property. They do incredible amounts of damage and even sensitive federal areas are hard pressed to keep them at bay. We fence what must and just put up with the rest.

EDIT to add: I'm not familiar, as I've said, with the problems regarding the increased incidence of health problems in the established horse breeds, but I am familiar with this issue in dogs through rescue work I've done in that arena. The same is going on with purebred dogs. There are responsible breeders who do their best to screen for genetic ailments, but the fact of the matter is problems with autoimmune types of problems seem on the rise despite breeders' best efforts. I can cite numerous reasons I think this is happening but that's all outside the scope of this topic and would be opening this topic up to animosity from yet other sources. Let sleeping dogs lie!

[edit on 30-7-2010 by SheeplFlavoredAgain]

When I was younger my family would travel from MD to CO every summer to take me back to my mothers. I remember being in an almost deserted town in the midwest. When we got out of the RV a stampede of wild horses passed us within yards. So close we got mouthfuls of dirt. One of the scariest and amazing things I've ever seen. The sound of hooves , the snorts and screams, just incredible. Sigh....

Originally posted by Demetre
When I was younger my family would travel from MD to CO every summer to take me back to my mothers. I remember being in an almost deserted town in the midwest. When we got out of the RV a stampede of wild horses passed us within yards. So close we got mouthfuls of dirt. One of the scariest and amazing things I've ever seen. The sound of hooves , the snorts and screams, just incredible. Sigh....

what a great story!!! I too remember many trips through Nevada and we always saw wild horses! Now I don't

Good to hear from you sheep flavored!

my issue with the archeological argument is that horses have been here for five hundred years and the archeological sites were fine and BP is building a Pipeline on what was the Mustangs range ,you really BP is going to respect the ancient historical artifacts ??

that document I cited is pure cynical Bul*$#%l

I can probably help you with any terminology issues you might be having I got that link from an anti Mustang poster on on of the Mustang Conspiracy threads I was arguing with him for pages and I posted a bunch of links there

so I posted it here ,check the last few pages of the Mustang Conspiracy threads and check out our exchanges it might help you understand how the BLM thinks

in the mean time I'll try cross posting some of the links

Okay I 've been gone awhile ,college no time for anything but study

so I am very excited to have found the motherload of wild horse info

www.mustangs4us.com...Craig Dowmer Equids and wildlife

I take exception to Tina Nappe’s recent editorial (4/28/2010) concerning wild horses and their place in the Great Basin and elsewhere in the West. She indicates that the Great Basin desert life community has evolved independently of large-hooved grazers since ca. 10,000 years ago, yet there is evidence of horses here much more recently. Also, in evolutionary terms, 10,000 years is a very short time period, and to discount the preceding millions of years of co-evolution of the horse family with the rest of the North American life community seems deliberately blind. A greater contextual perspective on this subject indicates that, in fact, North America, including the Great Basin, is species poor, particularly when it comes to large mammals. This is due to a great die-off that began just short of 13,000 years ago and continued for a few thousand years. This has been variously attributed to overkill by Amerindians, abrupt climatic fluctuations, and diseases. More recent evidence indicates that a devastating meteorite struck the ice fields of NE North America, causing a massive die-off. As with similar complex events, a combination of all of these plus unknown factors hits closer to the truth. Given this scenario, it becomes clear that North America has many vacant niches. Of these, none is more justified than that filled by members of the horse family, Equidae, including the modern horse, Equus caballus. This is a species whose origin, ca. two million years ago, was in North America and whose ancient ascent traces back to the dawn of the Cenozoic Era almost sixty million years ago. North America is the cradle of evolution for all three branches of the horse family: zebra, asses, and caballine horses. During all this vast period of time, a co-evolution has occurred between members of the horse family and the many symbiotic plants and animals with which horses and their kin have made the great journey of life. It has become abundantly clear to me that today’s wild horses and burros are major missing pieces in the ecological jigsaw puzzle. These are post-gastric digesters which make them natural gardeners whose droppings fertilize the soil wherever they roam and at the same time disperse the viable seeds of many native plants. The other large herbivores in North America are ruminant digesters who more thoroughly decompose the vegetation they ingest leaving little for soil micro-organisms and fungi to feed on and destroying most seeds ingested. For these and related reasons and coupled with their wider-ranging habits, horses and burros are restorers and enhancers of the North American ecosystem, even helping ruminants, as has been shown in many objective studies. They return the missing “equid element” amid the great panoply of species and give a tremendous boost to the variety of organisms that are able to survive. Think about all the tiny insects that can and do feed on the less digested equid droppings and that, in turn, are fed on by a great variety of rodents, lizards and birds. This does not happen to near the degree with ruminant digesters, especially the overly promoted cattle, sheep, and big game animals that the establishment today promotes.

many of you will remember me making these very points now you have it from a credentialed source

please read the article North American Aboriginal Horse Horse PDF in the bottom links below the article.I can't embed a link to it


maybe some of you remember me telling you about the horses I saw many years a go in Arizona that I suspected at the time were 'Originals'

we really can't let the epitome of evil that is is wanton slaughter of our horses to continue when they are our only link to answers of origins of them and ourselves that we seek


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[edit on Thu Aug 12 2010 by DontTreadOnMe]

Let it go. You have been milking this for a month. Mostly by bashing my breed ergo my horses. I have a responsible view with regard to horse husbandry but you must realize that they are 'my' animals not yours.









[edit on 10-8-2010 by ..5..]

Originally posted by ..5..

Let it go. You have been milking this for a month. Mostly by bashing my breed ergo my horses. I have a responsible view with regard to horse husbandry but you must realize that they are 'my' animals not yours. [edit on 10-8-2010 by ..5..]

You let it go 5 I could care less what you do with your horses

But since your breed association in cooperation with the government agencies that taxpayers fund are conspiring to annihilate Mustangs in the cruelest most cynical way possible , I continue to post

you may love your horses but you don't love horses if you did then you wouldn't be part of an association that over breeds and breeds horses for slaughter

and breeds horses when they are sick, crippled, deaf, and a legion of other faults

you can't get around it that quarter horses are bred by horse haters

and the so called excuses that are being put forward to destroy the Mustangs are coming straight from the mouth of AQHA to lawmakers
pandering to corporate rape and corruption.

those are facts and they aren't hidden or understandable to only a few ,they are widely available in your own breed publications

I'm just the messenger

Fine you love mustangs then adopt one, adopt a whole herd for all I care.

Stop attempting to bully me into abandoning my horses that I have had for 18 years because you found a scandal.

You seem to have a lot of free time. Why don't you get off this forum and become the next Wild Horse Annie.

Originally posted by ..5..
Fine you love mustangs then adopt one, adopt a whole herd for all I care.

Stop attempting to bully me into abandoning my horses that I have had for 18 years because you found a scandal.

You seem to have a lot of free time. Why don't you get off this forum and become the next Wild Horse Annie.

5 you seem to have the mistaken idea that I know you and made this thread for you when actually it is just info for people who have an interest in the Mustang issue and and to expose the AQHA for lying horse killers that they are

,and to my horse ownership I don't have to own a whale to be against whaling and I don't have to own a tiger to be against poaching so why do I have to own a Mustang to be against the cruel senseless annihilation of innocent life

I 'm against that no matter what the species or breed by the way

so if we don't kill them we can send them to jail

it's a good thing the public gets a nice broke horse and prisoner gets an outlook on world that is completely different from the one that got him thrown in prison in the first place

I saw a show about this program on TV it was amazing the transformation for these men



[yvid] [/yvid]

Have you ever heard of the Venus Project?

It's goal is to change society to a Resource Based Economy. Not based on money.

TheVenusProject.com.

It is not just the horses. It is everything that is this way.

That is why I started to promote a RBE based society. It would handle so many problems. We are going that way anyhow if the powers that be has nothing to do with it which in the end they will not. too few of them and Technological unemployment will do them in as well. We will not have the money to buy their wares so they go down too in this system. It just will take them a bit longer to go down.

I been reading too. I love horses and I wish I could have one but like the other reader not where I live and the income I have.

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
reply to post by SheeplFlavoredAgain

 

SheeplFlavoredAgain I thank you and Zhora so much for reading this

I always wonder when I post if I'm being clear and making my information understood

I have a long history with horses and in the past have rescued a few
I know on so many levels what they suffer and I am outraged.

I never stop on the issue of horse welfare ,I can't,I don't know how

but I do know that horses at the nexus of everything we need to fix as country and a people . Our morals ,our values, our history,who we need to become and we have to do it today

It's really time to stop letting these monsters define us ,we need to define ourselves .I know many people will stand with me and start that definition by never betraying innocence and beauty and goodness . That could be a start
I think many people are like you and see the romantic images and think everything is okay and why wouldn't you ? How would you know?

but now that you do please follow the links that many people have posted in these threads and please email your legislators and tell them what you just told me . It will help the horses it will

reply to post by FancyKat


Thankyou for caring about the horses FancyKat , and yes I do know about the Venus Project and I'm all for it!!!

in fact I was just watching some Venus Project stuff on youtube the other Day

and Zeitgeist hadn't watched it in awhile and sometimes the Mustang situation gets me worried and depressed so I need a little pick me up

i used to have ponies as a youngster and I grant back then I had some lessons on life to learn and I have.

I would make a better horse owner now. I wish I could do so but no money or place to have one. So I tell people of the Venus Project.

I am glad you know of it. It will evolve that way no matter what over time.

In the meantime its going to be hell.

I stopped at the local horse selling equipment place as I miss having a horse. Did not help.

I been following Madame Pickens for a while but much more closely lately after the BP oil disaster which got me on my high horse for Venus Project activism. That lead back to the horses.

If I could adopt a few I would. Maybe one day my son will be able to as he wants land out of the city to have a horse and animals. To survive the Transition to the VP RBE society.

you are welcome.

My name is Barb

welcome to my post Barb!

my own history with horses in brief goes like this
as a little kid I was crazy about them and my mothers family are all ranchers and farmers and some of them had horses and I got to ride some now and then at a riding stable or a relatives or sometimes my parents would lease one for the summer and take me riding that way

when I was 13 I got mad one day and just walked up to my parents and said the only thing I have ever asked you for is a horse and I think you should buy me one ...and they did!

so That's how it started and I had horses and rode horses and trained horses all wrong ,until one day I was looking at my angry horse after one of our fights and thought to myself there has to be a better way

So that day I swore that I would never use force or cruel equipment with horses again and I have never looked back... now I can train them with no dust and no fuss

I don't have any now I'd like to though of course
Peace Holly

I would do the same now.

I had a kitty named trip that taught me that lesson. I loved him but he got sick due to the cheap chinese food I had fed him because of my low income.

I had to put him to sleep. I now have Fancy. She rules the place.

I would like to ride again but where is the answer for they charge the earth to do so for one dang hour.

If I ever get a chance i will save a few mustangs. One never knows.

Till then I tell people of the Venus Project. If people say it is this and that I move on for they don't get it.

Good to meet you.

reply to post by FancyKat


Barb communicating thoughts Like the Venus project takes Baby Steps
it's like training horses,if they don't get it it's because they don't have the foundation to understand what you're telling them

so you as a communicator have to back track to the place they do understand and go from there

Sometimes it is impossible to do that but I get your point.

It took almost pulling teeth to get a person who went to a tea party to see it and be for it.

She did watch the videos and that helped a great deal. I kept hitting my head for she kept missing the point. But after she watched Jacques and the videos she was able to connect the dots. She said she was on board. It was so hard too and I had given up on her seeing it then the next email she got it.

She says he is brilliant.

Others such as Libertarians I don't even try with. I just move on. It was hard enough to get Anita to see it. I just don't have the energy to do that again. I figure nature and time will teach them.

Those who do want to know such as Anita I will take time with.

It sure would fix the horse situation and the world situation.

Here in NY a person in my area running for govenor wants to put welfare people into prisons to live to work. He said it should be by the choice of the welfare person. Teach them to take a bath and such. This guy is rich. He has no clue to what real life is like. The next step is to have debtor prisons. Poor houses.

This whole system sucks. Money is King. People will do anything for money. Kill horses, Kill the gulf. The rich will feel it last but they will feel it.