If the confederacy would have WON!!

reply to post by TheLoony


Star for that. Were I computer savvy, I'd post a picture of the original Mountain Dew bottle.
Point is , the truly wealthly crap on everyone, some just get much bigger piles.

reply to post by TheLoony

Also, the South lost. That means, right or wrong, that the winners get to write the history books. You are going to get the shaft in that and there is nothing either of us can do to change that.

Well we can keep telling the truth. Not that there is one definitive truth. However, it isn't as simple as most people want it to be. So, it falls to those that know better to say something. Especially when that history is still used to paint tens of millions of people that had nothing to do with it.

I never thought that movie would piss someone off so much. I guess my perspective is different as I am from neither the North nor the South as my state, Nevada, didn't become anything until much later. I don't have a dog in this race, so to speak.

That is the difference. You haven't been told by a waitress in Baltimore "this isn't Mayberry Opie," because you asked if they serve iced sweet tea.

I can not begin to tell you how many people said, "oh it must be because I'm black," when I worked retail. It didn't matter if I was checking id so they could by a $3,500 tv or if I was telling them that something was out of stock. At least two or three times a week I was told I must be racist because I am white and a southerner.

You've never had somebody use the "n word" and then say, "oh you don't mind you're from the south."

You probably haven't had a waitress in NYC say "I don't think I've had a southerner as a customer. Do you need help reading the menu?"

Movies like the one posted and disinformation in general continue to lead to a negative view of southerners.

You posted what you thought was interesting. You couldn't know how it would effect others. No fault in that.

reply to post by maybereal11

The movie is an attack on "politics" of manipulation...not specific to the south.

No where in the original clip that you posted does it say that. The original clip you posted was simply Boogie Man - Lee Atwater and The South.

Let me quote a little something from the video for you.

He's a part of the system that hates us.

The same ones that are sayin' yes sir to you... are the sames one that might lynch you.

In the context of the clip you originally posted it makes it appear as if these are still th status quo in the south. It also fails to mention anything about a national politics of fear. The clip I responded to was not about any of the things you claim. So, don't tell me I misunderstood the context when I responded directly to the context provided.

Coca-cola/pepsi? Not just southern companies, I am in Illinois and less than a few miles from the sales and marketing headquarters.

Yes but Pepsi originated in North Carolina and Coca Cola started in Georgia. They both still have headquarters in the south. This makes them southern companys.

What does selling Pepsi in school have to do with Obama and others saying they favor a sin tax on cola? Those are two seperate issues.

It also falls on the parent to take responsibility for their kids and their health. When I was growing up the only time I drank Coca Cola was when we went to grandma's house. Then we only got one 8oz glass. I only drank Pepsi at my other grandma's house or if it was a special treat. If your kid is obese maybe it is time to go buy some bikes or take them to the park. Blaming Pepsi for obesity is only a way to avoid being responsible for your choices and actions. Nobody forces anybody to drink Pepsi, or to give their kids the money to buy Pepsi.
(I'm not saying you have a fat kid I am using you in a general sense.)

We farm in the north too. I am in the Midwest. Not sure your point with the gasoline tax etc. Pick-up trucks...the south doesn't have a corner on that. Ever hear of the farm belt?

Actually it was that it effects southerners because a lot of areas base their economy on agriculture. A lot of other workers base their income on construction. That means such actions affect the guy in NC a lot more than the people in Chicago, NY, DC, and Boston pushing the laws.

As for Mayor Daley's views on guns. Do not speak of things you know little about.

I know that according to the DOJ and FBI guns are used on average 40.3 times per day to fend of dangerous attacks against people. That doesn't include uses to defend property.

I know that the same night police had a shoot out with gang bangers my dad protected his life with a gun. Two guys jumped out of a minivan as he walked his dog in his own front yard. They yelled "this is a robbery." He pulled out a Colt Army .44-40 and told them he didn't agree. They hauled ass and jumped right back in the van.

I know I protected my own home recently with my gun. In doing so I was protecting the safety of my wife and child. A guy attending a party at a neighbor's house got mad because I called the cops to break up the party. He pulled his truck in to my front yard and hopped out with a baseball bat. I walked out on the porch and informed him the cops had been called he needed to leave. He continued to advance. I fired a warning shot in to the dirt. I told him to drop the bat and lay on his face. The cops showed up and hauled him away.

I know about crime ridden citys. I've lived in North Charelston and Greenville, SC. I've also spent extensive time in Nashville, TN and Charlotte, NC. Nothing excuses shredding the constitution. Remember those that sacrifice liberty for security deserve, and eventually will have, neither.

Now let us return to things that are on topic. You posted a clip I responded and I told you that southerners have plenty of reason to feel pushed around. All Americans do. Most of us don't feel that we are pushed around because of the civil war. We feel pushed around because we are constantly painted in a light that is unflattering and untrue while politicians sell us up the creek.





[edit on 12-7-2010 by MikeNice81]

Originally posted by MikeNice81
You posted a clip I responded and I told you that southerners have plenty of reason to feel pushed around. All Americans do. Most of us don't feel that we are pushed around because of the civil war. We feel pushed around because we are constantly painted in a light that is unflattering and untrue while politicians sell us up the creek.

We would not feel pushed around if the true power of the government resided closer to the governed and not in some administrative headquarters hundreds, if not thousands of miles away.

What a lot of people in this thread don't understand is that the Constitution was a legal contract between sovereign countries on how to interact with one another to further the whole's best interest. The intent of the federal government was to act as an administrator over that contract, never was it intended to devolve to what we have now.

I've made comments on other forums about how everyone in the country is a slave now and was disparaged for making light of slavery. Try not paying your property taxes and see how long you maintain "control" of "your" property, you're just renting it from mi'lord. Funny, we're right back where we started, but because it is called something else, no one sees the truth.

[edit on 7/12/2010 by Finalized]

Originally posted by MikeNice81


No where in the original clip that you posted does it say that. The original clip you posted was simply Boogie Man - Lee Atwater and The South.

Let me quote a little something from the video for you.

He's a part of the system that hates us.

The same ones that are sayin' yes sir to you... are the sames one that might lynch you.

In the context of the clip you originally posted it makes it appear as if these are still th status quo in the south. It also fails to mention anything about a national politics of fear. The clip I responded to was not about any of the things you claim. So, don't tell me I misunderstood the context when I responded directly to the context provided.

Both those statements were made by Lee Atwaters close friend. He was talking about the contradictory nature of Atwater and the South.

You have viewed this clip through angry, blurry eyes and failed to see the meaning. I had assumed you were familiar with Atwater. Whatever...you seen to have a point to make repeating yourself with little interest in examining the nature of what I am saying. Have at it. Keep your world view, I honestly don't care.

Originally posted by MikeNice81

Coca-cola/pepsi? Not just southern companies, I am in Illinois and less than a few miles from the sales and marketing headquarters.

Yes but Pepsi originated in North Carolina and Coca Cola started in Georgia. They both still have headquarters in the south. This makes them southern companys.

From Wikipedia
PepsiCo, Incorporated (NYSE: PEP) is a Fortune 500, American multinational corporation headquartered in Purchase, New York

Coca-Cola is in Georgia...but again, who cares. It takes a lot of rage to go from the civil war to Coca-Cola.

Your argument about it being a parents responsibility to teach thier kids what to drink in school and vending machines that only sell soda are fine...what about drugs? shouldn't we be ok with drug dealing in schools? As long as you teach your children not to use them?

Nonsense...don't sell fat juice in schools.

Originally posted by MikeNice81

We farm in the north too. I am in the Midwest. Not sure your point with the gasoline tax etc. Pick-up trucks...the south doesn't have a corner on that. Ever hear of the farm belt?

Actually it was that it effects southerners because a lot of areas base their economy on agriculture.

Hard to have a serious conversation with you as you seem to think Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio, Wisconsin etc. aren't farm states.

Originally posted by MikeNice81

I know that according to the DOJ and FBI guns are used on average 40.3 times per day to fend of dangerous attacks against people. That doesn't include uses to defend property.

Interesting stat...link? Can you tell me how many of those folks were cops?

As for your Gun and your Dad...keep em. As for the city of Chicago and children getting shot in the streets....would you suggest arming the kids so they could properly shoot back when a stray bullet kills their 11 year old schoolmate? DUMB EFEN LOGIC...I own guns, I believe in the 2nd Amendment, but you are talking out of your ass when someone explains that KIDS are getting shot on a regular basis in Chicago and you tell stories about how you used your gun to defend yourself...GUN OWNERSHIP IS NOT AN OPTION FOR KIDS.


[edit on 12-7-2010 by maybereal11]

reply to post by maybereal11

Both those statements were made by Lee Atwaters close friend. He was talking about the contradictory nature of Atwater and the South.

Precisely, it had nothing to do with national politics. Which was my point all along. You brought Karl Rove and national politics in to the conversation. Neither thing was covered in the clip. It was all about Atwater and Strom Thurmond and southern hate/fear.

You can argue however you want. The clip did not sell what you were trying to say it did. I believe that the documentary as a whole may be all about what you say. However, the original clip was not. I stand by what I said.

We can agree to disagree all day long.

From Wikipedia
PepsiCo, Incorporated (NYSE: PEP) is a Fortune 500, American multinational corporation headquartered in Purchase, New York

They have moved the headquarters. I stand corrected. At one time the headquarters was in NC and so was the regional headquarters for their bottling agency. Both have moved during various corporate mergers and buy outs. I apologize for the dis-info.

Coca-Cola is in Georgia...but again, who cares. It takes a lot of rage to go from the civil war to Coca-Cola.

Nope it takes trying to point out that southerners are past the civl war. We feel pushed around for other reasons now.

Your argument about it being a parents responsibility to teach thier kids what to drink in school and vending machines that only sell soda are fine...what about drugs?

Are you really going to compare Pepsi and Meth, or Pepsi and heroin?

Hard to have a serious conversation with you as you seem to think Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio, Wisconsin etc. aren't farm states.

What I was trying to say was, that my point is it effects the south. It doesn't matter that it effects other states. It pisses off people across the south because it effects the very fabric of our economy. We weren't discussing Nebraska or Ohio. It was a list of things that effect the south and make southerners feel pushed around.

Interesting stat...link?

DOJ Stats Read the study do the math and add in the justifiable homicides for 2007. This is actually a study of victims and victimization. That means the study covers self defense using a weapon.

As for the city of Chicago and children getting shot in the streets....would you suggest arming the kids

No. I would suggest starting with prosecutors and police doing their jobs. Then I would go to Daley and talk to him about loosening up the taxes and union strangle holds. Then we could get more industry back in to the city and help foster jobs. That would go a long way torwards helping kids feel like they had a future. I would also talk to him about addressing the de facto segregation that has been rampant in the city since before Muddy Waters rolled in to town.

Then I would say that you need to lift the ban on guns. Obviously banning guns hasn't helped keep the murder rate below 400. Adding CCTV cameras around the city didn't help.

I was checking this site and it looks like most of the murders lately have been outside of school hours and in places like alleys, residences, and in the street. Could you give me a date when all of these kids were killed?

According to this site the risk of getting killed in Chicago is 360% higher than the national average. You are also about 471% more likely to get robbed. It doesn't look like the gun ban has helped kids or adults. Criminals keep using illegal guns to comit crimes.

This is what I'm talking about. People telling us that the second ammendment is okay unless things get too iffy. Then they can shred it up. It doesn't matter that study after study shows it doesn't work.

Now let me get back on topic. Southerners don't feel pushed around because of how the civil war turned out. We feel pushed around because the government keeps trying to baby sit us. Then they refuse to listen when we tell them their methods affect us in a negative away, or don't work. Any time a southerner disagrees with what the federal government wants or what northerners want they are treated as the idiot step children. That is what pisses us off. It has very little to do with the civil war. It has a lot to do with a prejudicial mind set that fosters disrespect, and marginalizes millions of people.



[edit on 12-7-2010 by MikeNice81]

I'm sorry what was this thread about
Just kidding great stuff

Originally posted by MikeNice81

As for Mayor Daley's views on guns. Do not speak of things you know little about.

I know that according to the DOJ and FBI guns are used on average 40.3 times per day to fend of dangerous attacks against people. That doesn't include uses to defend property.
[edit on 12-7-2010 by MikeNice81]

Originally posted by MikeNice81

Interesting stat...link?

DOJ Stats Read the study do the math and add in the justifiable homicides for 2007. This is actually a study of victims and victimization. That means the study covers self defense using a weapon.

[edit on 12-7-2010 by MikeNice81]

READ THE STUDY...Tried all kinds of math....

Please explain where you got the statistic.

I am willing to admit I was wrong...Until then I CALL BS.

From a former post in another thread

Here is the good stuff. 65% of the time when the victim uses self protective measures they help or improve their situation. The result of using self protective measures is the avoidance of injury or greater injury 52.4% of the time. 18.4% of the time it scares away the offender. That means that over two million victimizations are avoided or nuetraulized due to the ability to use force. 2.3% of those that resisted used a weapon.

That means more than 40,000 people protected their life with a weapon. Of the 40,000 people that used a weapon 13,920 used a fire arm. If you add in the 607 justifiable homicides in the same year you have conservatively 14,727 cases of firearms stopping violent attacks. That is a significant number more than the 10,129 lives taken with guns that same year.

That is my conservative reading using the statistics. I know some people that report higher numbers. I count only threatened with or attacked offender with weapon. Some people include things like captured, scared, or persuaded attacker. If you add in those numbers it gets to be hundreds of thousands of people. Because of the vauge nature of the reporting I feel those categories can not be included even though guns are some times used in those situations. (The number 40,000 makes my numbers even more conservative. However, it makes the math much simpler.)

[edit on 14-7-2010 by MikeNice81]

reply to post by MikeNice81


Those numbers don't synch at all in my reading.

At the very least explain where in the doj report you derived that 13.9k folks used firearms to defend themselves.

Please give me a page number...those numbers you cite aren't in the report so I assume you did some math here?

give me the starting figure in the report you used to derive 13.9k

[edit on 14-7-2010 by maybereal11]

I haven't read the study in a while. I may have been using the numbers on page 66 as my starting point. I think I used either the number for total number of incidents or the number of incidents completed. I really don't remember and I don't have the time right now to re-run the numbers.

Try running the numbers below through the cruncher. I really would like to run them again, but I just can't. Family duties are calling at the moment.
4,892,000
1,499,720
3,392,280


I tried with 4,892,000 and got some wacky numbers. I doubt that is the one. Give me time to figure out how I did it again. I know that is horrible science, but I never claimed to be a scientist.



This is driving me crazy, but I have things to do. In the mean time here is one other person's findings using the NCVS. They think the number is too low. I think it might be just right. Either way it is higher than my number. Which seems apropriate given the proportion of crime decrease between the years of 1994 (their NCVS) and 2007 (my NCVS)

Paper about defensive gun use

Data from the NCVS imply that each year there are only about 68,000 defensive uses of guns in connection with assaults and robberies,[16] or about 80,000 to 82,000 if one adds in uses linked with household burglaries.[17]

68,000 / 365 = 186.3
Of course that is really spit in the wind since it is no longer 1994.

I will get back on this.

[edit on 14-7-2010 by MikeNice81]

Originally posted by madhadder545
I'm sorry what was this thread about
Just kidding great stuff

Now I'm not kidding! What was this thread about?
Is it still on topic of "states rights"?

reply to post by madhadder545


Whatever it is it's hilarious. I love watching people fight the civil war all over again. It's like watching dogs chase their tails-pointless but amusing none the less.

In the event this has not already been posted:
Link to Confederate Constituion:
avalon.law.yale.edu...

Here is an article discussing the changes compared to the "original".
Many sections were clarified.
www.filibustercartoons.com...

Also you might want to read the Constituion Con.
This goes on to show that the ambiguities that are the source of much debate today were purposeful. Leave it to a bunch of lawyers to create and out for their activities.
www.taroscopes.com...

[edit on 25-7-2010 by OhZone]