Operation Truth: Toxic Rain Reality Check Testing

reply to post by getreadyalready


Ok, so far from Professor Joye's blog, she is most concerned with VOC (volatile organic compounds) which are toxic to humans and a source of contamination for ground water, wells, etc. She is also testing for polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. (PAH)

Also she mentions DOM and CDOM (Dissolved Organic Matter and Colored DOM). These things are measured optically and should be simple for any lab. The oil spill is a major contributer to this matter.

As for Corexit, Professor Joye mentions one specific component 2-Butoxyethonal. She also links to the MSDS for Corexit 9500 and 9527. I will post more ingredients that we can identify from those MSDS sheets.

It is interesting to note that according to the MSDS, the Corexit has a "hazy amber" appearance. Just like my water sample and pool! Also interesting to note that the propylene glycol is a monitored chemical in most states, because of its potentially toxic impact on wildlife. It has a pleasant odor and wildlife do not avoid it as they should.

Professor Joye's Blog

Shoreline VOC content Testing

Corexit 9527 MSDS

Corexit 9500 MSDS

Synopsis of what to test for:

As for Corexit:
Product Name: EC9527A
2-Butoxyethanol
Organic Sulfonic acid salt
Propylene Glycol

Product Name: EC9500A
Distallates, petroleum, hydrotreated light
Propylene Glycol
Organic sulfonic acid salt

As for the Oil itself:
VOC (volatile organic compounds)
PAH (polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons)
DOM (dissolved organic matter)
CDOM (colored dissolved organic matter)

Hope this helps!

reply to post by getreadyalready


I did not taste that rainwater ... and i won't taste this rainwater, either. You're a braver soul than me!

The smell i mentioned was not in the rainwater; it was on the air about a day ahead of the rain on a total of 3 occasions. We had a tiny bit of rain yesterday and good chances for a lot of it today. I have not noticed the odor for the past couple of days, but i've not been outside a lot, either.

You got the funny colored rainwater, too? May i know what State you are in?

reply to post by SeesFar


Tallahassee, Florida. 15 miles from the coast.

RainWater was perfectly clear and tasty on June 30th, whenever a frontal system moved through from North to South. That frontal system stalled off the coast and became a low pressure system and brought rain back up South to North on July 1st and 2nd. That rain had the bitterness and yellow color. Same storm, different water source, different results. Seems pretty significant!

[edit on 8-7-2010 by getreadyalready]

reply to post by getreadyalready


Yes, it does seem very significant. Very worrisome and disturbing, too.

I have family in Naples. I've sent them all the good, credible information that i can and they continue to choose to work hard to remain ignorant about what's going on, even to the point of accusing me of being "hysterical." I'm many things, but hysterical certainly isn't one of them.

This thread, i think, is one of the best of many good ones here at ATS. I am glad to have found a site where there are so many levelheaded people who are doing what they can to rationally get to a conclusion (such as Cloud's mission for folks to collect and test rainwater), yet who do not totally ignore any possible theories while simultaneously not buying into the clearly irrational ones.

It seems to me patently obvious that TPTB have no intentions of telling any of us what is really going on and what all the potential outcomes of this oil disaster situation could be. It's my humble opinion that an informed public is a more rational and less panic-stricken public.

reply to post by SeesFar


SeesFar can you take any photos or video......even if its a cell phone video........Its raining here today......but its very "clean" looking. I am taking samples of every system moving through........

I am not going to comment on the past few post here..........I will let Paxnatus go over what these labs have been saying.......She has been on the phone all morning talking to different labs.........

More to come……..

Seesfar, I agree. What would help (me at least) is if a mod here would start or oversee a fact thread. Either just the mods could post, or anyone could post but the mods would keep a close eye on it to make sure it's "just the facts." They could copy relevant posts or sections of them from other threads. Then we'd have a concise reference to refer to. It would not be for discussion. That could be done in other threads and the mod could update or remove a previously posted "fact" as necessary. It would not need to be 100% certain, maybe 90% probable, then correct if needed. A source reference should be included in most cases (could be personal observation of the conditions onsite).

[edit on 8-7-2010 by ttatw]

*Update Lab Testing*


Here are the facts I have gathered:

As Clouds has said, many labs across the country can perform a simple water test. They can even tell you if the rainwater is toxic. A general water test is not too expensive under $100.00. However this test will not break down the compounds of the toxic elements in the water. So yes, you will have abnormal findings, but there will be no way to determine the source of those findings.

So far I have found only one lab in the nation that can not only test for dispersant's but for the chemical compound DOSS or Dioctyl Sulfosuccinate Sodium Salt, the chemical property left from the use of Corexit.

If DOSS is present, then there is no question Corexit is in the rainwater, thus allowing the lab to identify where the source came from.

Analytical testing for these compounds requires the use of sophisticated instrumentation. Due to their chemical nature, many of these compounds are not amenable to standard environmental gas chromatographic (GC) techniques.

The method used will be Liquid Chromatography/Mass Spectroscopy/Mass Spectroscopy (LC/MS/MS).

There must be parameters in place before the testing. So if we were to test for Benzine or Oil based chemical properties, there is not only a different test method but a different test that would need to be ordered thus driving the cost per sample up.

Because the test is very expensive I am in the process of finding funding to back this project. Please know that money will not deter us from getting to the truth.

We have placed an order for the supplies needed to collect the samples. They are being shipped today to Clouds. We will let you know the next step to take if you would like your sample tested.

The only thing I ask is that you continue to be patient. This is a ground breaking project and the 3 of us are working very diligently to provide the most accurate data we possibly can.

Thank you very much for your participation in this thread, and the compliments. Remember we are just like you. Everyday Joe's and Jane(lol)
Nothing special about any of us, we just got to the point where enough was enough, and we want the truth.

We welcome any and all help if you would like to participate.

Kindly,

Pax



[edit on 8-7-2010 by paxnatus]

reply to post by Cloudsinthesky


Clouds, i have no means to get a video but i will be able to take pictures. It's heavy and thick here with intermittent sunshine, so i don't know where that rain is that's supposed to dump on us. If we get it, though, and if it's still light out i will certainly take and post pics of anything looks out of the norm.

When i say 'out of the norm,' please know that i'm a stay-at-home wife, i tend to the garden, the chickens and my flowerbeds, so i'm a longtime 'cloud watcher' and am very familiar with our little place and what it looks like in heavy rain/flood situations. If something is out of the range of normal, i WILL notice it.

Hubby drives home through the bottoms and has to cross over a little creek that gets high easily in heavy rain conditions ~ sometimes from a pretty good ways upstream. I've asked him to try to remember to notice the water running in the creek if it's up when he comes through this evening. If something is going to bubble, froth, show a foam with color, etc., that'll be a real good place to observe it.

reply to post by paxnatus


I sent the following email to the two professors that I know in the Analytical Chemistry Department of Florida State University. I know that we have Liquid and Gas Chromatography and Mass Spectrometers, as well as many other Analytical Tools. My Chemistry degree is from this University, but I don't have a lot of contacts still there. I have had personal contact with both of the professors that I sent this to, so hopefully they will remember me and be interested. I will let you guys know.

Good Morning,

I have been a Chemistry student at FSU, and I currently work for the state in the Department of Revenue. I also belong to a network of people, and we have coordinated to collect rainwater samples from across the Gulf Coast, Texas, The Midwest, and the South. So far, we have not found any labs that were able or willing to check for DOSS (Dioctyl Sulfosuccinate Sodium Salt). That chemical would be a telltale sign of Corexit in the rainwater. In addition, we would like to see tests for PAH's (polyaromatic hydrocarbons) to see if components from the oil spill are being carried by the rainwater.

Are either of you interested in receiving rainwater samples, or do you have Grad Students that might be interested, or do you have suggestions on where to get these samples tested without paying exorbitant fees to a private lab?

Thank you in advance for any suggestions you may have!!


Thanks,

Scott [last name deleted]

[private email deleted]
[phone number deleted]

Testing water is always a good idea... even without an environmental disaster.

I salute you three for coming together and attempting this.

If you see it through, no matter the results, I will be proud to see your efforts as heroic and worthy of praise.

Those who laugh at you here are all meaningless.

Good job at "doing something".

As for those "down playing" this situation as some "over-hyped harmless publicity stunt"-

You see this the wrong way. The media is hardly reporting on this. This is being buried slowly, day by day. You are not being fed "real answers" or being kept "informed", so how can you speak as if you "know anything" about the outcome of all of this?

Those of you assuming this to be some small mishap that will go away quick and easy are "fooling yourself".

Those who think this is "business as usual" are day dreaming.

And those of you comfortable enough in your little "brain-wash-world-of-feeling-so-smart" that you sit and dismiss all concern over this event as if you hold a degree in "oil breaches" - shame on you.

Really.

Hx3 checking in...

My location has just had it's first rainfall since Alex...

On my way home from the store (1/4 way into rain) I did witness the fore mentioned Foam Trails being left by Vehicles as they past me on the Roads...(but was to late to capture on Video as it washed away by the time I got to Video Cam)...

I've done a classic mid-stream capture (about halfway through the storm to wash off any pre-existing debris) from my homes over hang (no down spouts)...

The sample was collected in a large (32 oz), clean, dry, Mayonnaise Jar...

Final collection results...10 ozs..

Yellow appearance with slight foam around edges of the sample...more when shaken...

Map has been updated...

Toxic Rain Reality Check

[edit on 7/8/2010 by Hx3_1963]

On fourth of July the rain was very thick. I looked outside thinking it was smoke but it was rain. When I went out to my car the next day there was a thin grey coating on it. The rain fell again and once again looked thick. I do not know to describe it but was almost as if there was something in the rain? I know we get the remians or hurricane Alex so maybe there was some chemicals in that rain. I don't know it didn't think it could make it that far but rain is never thick. Rain is more liquidy like water not like soup!

Haven't had a chance to read the whole thread, but wanted to say that it's been raining like all get-out on the TX Gulf Coast since the Alex bands blew through here. Neighbor's garden looks pretty pitiful, but I think it's just cuz of too much rain. I've got plenty rainwater collected in 5 gallon buckets from roof gutter drain. I usually water the outside plants with it, but it looks like I'll have plenty to spare for some samples for a while. Where you want me to send it?
Everybody over here was starting to freak out over the July 4th weekend because a tar ball sample from Bolivar Pennisula tested positive for "BP"...ha ha. Seriously though, they're swearing up & down that it was just a "hitchhiker" tar ball that was brought over by & fell off from one of the port barges.
I'm bayside on the mainland & I haven't been to the Island in a few weeks, so I can't really say firsthand what it looks like at this point. But I can say that Galveston beaches are kinda nasty to begin with & it's very common for tar balls, among various other "treasures", to wash up on them regularly. If you're serious about water samples, I can probably get you some from the Matagorda Bay area too, so you'd be covered for samples to represent almost half the TX Gulf Coast.

reply to post by paxnatus


Pax that is great news as far as the testing goes!

Of course this is something we should never have to worrry about, but better days we have seen.

S&F of course. I am in support all the way!

Originally posted by ttatw
Seesfar, I agree. What would help (me at least) is if a mod here would start or oversee a fact thread. Either just the mods could post, or anyone could post but the mods would keep a close eye on it to make sure it's "just the facts." They could copy relevant posts or sections of them from other threads. Then we'd have a concise reference to refer to. It would not be for discussion. That could be done in other threads and the mod could update or remove a previously posted "fact" as necessary. It would not need to be 100% certain, maybe 90% probable, then correct if needed. A source reference should be included in most cases (could be personal observation of the conditions onsite).

[edit on 8-7-2010 by ttatw]

Seconded.

I want this to happen, too.

reply to post by WashMoreFeet


As soon as I get the kinks worked out I will let you know for some samples.......Keep us updated on your garden and other things down there

I live in Georgia, we primarily get all of our moisture out of the gulf... Until now. Almost all rain showers have came out of the North East. We've had a few showers from the gulf since DeepWater Horizon, but we haven't had any rain in a while.. Also, we're supposed to get storms tomorrow, from my look at National Radar, it looks like its coming from the Carolinas. So yeah, thought it was odd, when I first posted it (may) it got shot down as "Natural weather patterns" :/

reply to post by paxnatus


If you get it worked out where they will do the test at their expense for it's research value, that's good. The official DOSS test may be what it would take to convince the skeptics, media and government. However, just for our own information I'm thinking that there has to be some quick and dirty test we can apply ourselves to at least get an idea if it might be there.

Quoting you: "the chemical compound DOSS or Dioctyl Sulfosuccinate Sodium Salt, the chemical property left from the use of Corexit"

I notice a couple of things.

One, DOSS contains sulfur. Since people are talking about yellowish colored rain, that fits. There are lots of things that react with sulfur, so we might be able to add a chemical reagent to get a specific type of precipitate. Some research and experimentation would be good, particularly on a sample that is known to have that compound in it. Sulfur is common from other sources of air pollution, too, so we would need to know more than just that there is some sulfur.

Two, DOSS is a salt. That gives a number of options. A salinity test for one, but that depends on how much is there. Also, most salts will usually be left behind as the water evaporates. So we let a sample evaporate, and see if maybe we get a yellowish residue, then note the odor or some other identifiable property of the residue (e.g., maybe a distinctive crystalline structure would be visible with a regular microscope).

So although the official expensive test would be best, there might be some poor man techniques that would do in a pinch, or just to get an idea of which samples to test further.

FYI:
succinate: A salt or an ester of succinic acid.
[It's a common ingredient in a number of medicines.]

succinic acid: a colorless, crystalline, water-soluble solid, C4H6O4, used chiefly in the manufacture of lacquers, dyes, and perfume. Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2010.
[Other def. say "naturally occuring", "found widely in nature", etc.]

Doesn't that just wreak of NWO PTB? Big Oil= Chemical Industry = Big Pharma


[edit on 8-7-2010 by ttatw]

I'm in N Virginia near Winchester and we are due for thunder storms any day now. Temps have been in high 90's to 104 F. I don't think we've had rain since May. I will be more than happy to collect the rain if we ever get any, 2 systems threatened but went around us.

GREAT thread!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by SeesFar

 

Tallahassee, Florida. 15 miles from the coast.

RainWater was perfectly clear and tasty on June 30th, whenever a frontal system moved through from North to South. That frontal system stalled off the coast and became a low pressure system and brought rain back up South to North on July 1st and 2nd. That rain had the bitterness and yellow color. Same storm, different water source, different results. Seems pretty significant!

[edit on 8-7-2010 by getreadyalready]

I am in Clearwater, FL. That same night my wife and I headed out for a walk of our dog. We had just worked out and we were wearing tanktops. The rain was very light, but not constant enough at that point to be considered a drizzle. Midway through the walk my wife remarked that the little rain drops created a mild burning sensation. I began to notice it too, especially when it hit my shoulders and the tops of my ears. I freaked us out a bit, because about 1.5 hours before we were coming home from Costco and saw a huge (many miles across), really weird and strangely colored, omnious dark cloud moving towards our area. It was very low to the ground at dusk. The colored could be considered deep, dark amberish. The closest shape description might be a chevron spread out on a flat plane. There were no clouds around it, only dark blue sky.