Islam is an Advocate of Peace, Not Terror

Originally posted by LittleSecret
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

I still don't get your point, explain.
What is your point?
Be careful, will be asked to provide evidence ^^

Ok...

Let's take the Global Village Idiot. I mean this guy for example.
Who would you say is really calling the shots in Tehran?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d8bf80cfb375.gif[/atsimg]

[edit on 7-7-2010 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69


I said what is your point?

Dumbify it for me so I can understand.

Originally posted by LittleSecret
People bury their dead, is that true or not

A million people? Buried in the desert in hidden graves? And no one has found out???

Originally posted by LittleSecret
Why would the US hide dead bodies, I thought that was the media's job?

Nah, only politicians hide bodies.

reply to post by nenothtu


Do you read what you write?

If you don't want to discuss this issue then it is alright, you don't have to make useless comments which adds nothing to the discussion.

There is no embarrassment in pursuing the truth, the embarrassment is the continual denial of the truth.

You are saying I can't counter a false claim, Jesus Christ, I already proved your claim was false.

You mentioned a verse, from a chapter, from a book.

Let me refresh your memory:

"Kill them wherever you find them" applies only to infidels, unbelievers - not the People of the Book, right? The People of the Book only become legitimate targets if they refuse to pay the jizya tribute, and make themselves subjects under islam. Then they're fair game.

This is so freaking annoying, do you want me to do this all over again lol.

And here is my reply:

2:190 Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.

2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

2:192 But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

But somehow you don't want to listen to the truth and you're saying you're embarrassing yourself in pursuit of truth.

I already countered your false claim, bring something new to the discussion for god sakes, its getting kinda annoying.

producing false statements than using false statements as foundations of whole arguments is just absurd.

If you have anything to say, counter my argument.

Stop replying to everything I say, talk about the topic.

Jesus why am I even doing this, I'm don't have to talk to you lol

Later

way back when the taj mahal was build.
science, knowledge, and masonry, philosophy, peace and happyness, it goes on and on.
(the garden of eden, was presumably on that spot there, very long ago.)

the crusades, and its terror on knowledge, known as the dark ages etc.
made the Islamic library of Alexandria burn.
it was historic Islam that stood for peace and knowhow.

evidence is everywhere.
one example.
writings on taj mahal

hidden, old images, of taj mahal and its...



[edit on 7-7-2010 by telfyr]

Originally posted by LittleSecret
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Dumbify it for me so I can understand.

Ok...


I'll type this very slowly.

Preachers, Priests, Rabbis, Imams and other nut jobs belong in Churches, Mosques or at Temple. Not have a prominent influence in the halls of Government. People should be able to worship as they please. That's a given, however when an archaic form of law [Sharia] slithers it's way in and creates an environment where a woman can be stoned to death because of rape or adultery. [Article 104 in Shari'a law]. This form of barbarism is simply out dated and vial! In my not so humble opinion.

Yes, we have executions in the west for things like Murder. Sure some individual religious Christian/Jew/Muslim fundamentalist extremist will carry out all sorts of horrible crimes in the name of God and their beliefs here but it is not State/Nation sanctioned.

reply to post by jerico65


Do you think people were concerned about where they buried their dead? Do you think people were concerned where they buried their dead in WWII? Or in any war? Or in any conflict?

Originally posted by LittleSecret
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Do you read what you write?

Yes, because one of us needs to.

If you don't want to discuss this issue then it is alright, you don't have to make useless comments which adds nothing to the discussion.

Examples, please.

There is no embarrassment in pursuing the truth, the embarrassment is the continual denial of the truth.

I agree. That's exactly why I don't fear any embarrassment here at all.

You are saying I can't counter a false claim, Jesus Christ, I already proved your claim was false.

You can't, and you haven't. Also, you appear to have confused me with a different guy who has long hair and a beard...

You mentioned a verse, from a chapter, from a book.

Let me refresh your memory:

"Kill them wherever you find them" applies only to infidels, unbelievers - not the People of the Book, right? The People of the Book only become legitimate targets if they refuse to pay the jizya tribute, and make themselves subjects under islam. Then they're fair game.

This is so freaking annoying, do you want me to do this all over again lol.

And here is my reply:

2:190 Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.

2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

2:192 But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

But somehow you don't want to listen to the truth and you're saying you're embarrassing yourself in pursuit of truth.

I already countered your false claim, bring something new to the discussion for god sakes, its getting kinda annoying.

Where is your proof of a false claim? Or are you saying it DOES apply to the People of the Book, too? Is that what you're claiming is false about it?

producing false statements than using false statements as foundations of whole arguments is just absurd.

Yes, it is. Annoying, too. Are you going to stop doing that any time soon?

If you have anything to say, counter my argument.

I'd be glad to. Which one?

Stop replying to everything I say, talk about the topic.

"Mooom, he's copying me!"

I'm on topic, except when I have to reply to your absurdities. Care to join me any time soon?

Jesus why am I even doing this, I'm don't have to talk to you lol

Later

Again, you've obviously confused me with the other long-haired, bearded guy. I'm not him.

As for the rest... promises, promises!

[edit on 2010/7/7 by nenothtu]

reply to post by SLAYER69

Ok...


I'll type this very slowly.

Preachers, Priests, Rabbis, Imams and other nut jobs belong in Churches, Mosques or at Temple. Not have a prominent influence in the halls of Government. People should be able to worship as they please. That's a given, however when an archaic form of law [Sharia] slithers it's way in and creates an environment where a woman can be stoned to death because of rape or adultery. [Article 104 in Shari'a law]. This form of barbarism is simply out dated and vial! In my not so humble opinion.

Yes, we have executions in the west for things like Murder. Sure some individual religious Christian/Jew/Muslim fundamentalist extremist will carry out all sorts of horrible crimes in the name of God and their beliefs here but it is not State/Nation sanctioned.

And why should I be concerned about this? Why was this reply given to me?

I don't get it?

BTW Sharia is Islamic law, mixed with culture.

If you want to discuss whether Iranian system is good or not, then sure but don't mix and confuse the topics.

Iranian system is a mix of religious, cultural and some new age ideologies etc..

Whether it is good or bad can be judged based on results.

reply to post by jerico65


Here's something for you:
www.alternet.org...'s_gravedigging_industry_is_at_100%25_full_employment/

reply to post by LittleSecret


You asked for an example of what I meant by my reply when I was refering the separation of church and state. That's it, an example. You asked and you received.

I now hear that Sharia law is attempting to slither it's way into France and the UK. God help them if it does.

Originally posted by LittleSecret
reply to post by jerico65

 

Do you think people were concerned about where they buried their dead? Do you think people were concerned where they buried their dead in WWII? Or in any war? Or in any conflict?

I'm VERY concerned about where MY dead are buried. Can't speak for people in general, though.

To me. it's a matter of respect to be able to go back and care for the graves. Sadly, there are some I can no longer get to.

Originally posted by LittleSecret
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Do you read what you write?

Do you read what he writes? Seems to me you missed the entire point of his reply to you and your efforts to ignore my previous posts will only spur me to focus my FULL attention on this site on destroying your shoddy arguments and viewpoints.

Maybe you should go back and reread what he wrote, because apparently you didn't give it your full attention there, chuckles.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by LittleSecret

 

You asked for an example of what I meant by my reply when I was refering the separation of church and state. That's it, an example. You asked and you received.

I now hear that Sharia law is attempting to slither it's way into France and the UK. God help them if it does.

Slayer, God won't help them at all if it does. When Shari'a comes in, God leaves the building.

Palestinian preachers are spewing the most vile and offensive language i have heard of since the nazzi regime!
They not only await the fall of america but most world powers where they can once again rule the world and rid it of all jews, as mohammad said "for every rock and tree will want us to finish off every jew".
They await their Mahdi so they can once again rule the world.
If you do not wear Allah is god on your forehead or forearm and convert, you will be beheaded!
Unfortunately islam is the religion of the future.
ISLAM PREACHES PEACE FOR MUSLIMS ONLY!!!

reply to post by nenothtu

Where is your proof of a false claim? Or are you saying it DOES apply to the People of the Book, too? Is that what you're claiming is false about it?

You have hit rock bottom

I'm not gonna repeat myself 20 times, if you have any claims in regards to Islam you want to discuss, post it.

In conclusion, neno, you have outdone yourself in every possible way, not that I ever expected anything to come out of this discussion.

"Kill them wherever you find them" applies only to infidels, unbelievers - not the People of the Book, right? The People of the Book only become legitimate targets if they refuse to pay the jizya tribute, and make themselves subjects under islam. Then they're fair game.

You made this comment, brought half a verse ""Kill them wherever you find them" and use it as the bases of your argument:

So then, the choices for polytheists, and all other unbelieving infidels, is conversion to islam or death. The People of the Book are a special case, no? The choice for them is jizya tribute and subjugation, or death - no conversion required for them...

I countered your claim, then you ended up trolling.

Good summary I suppose.

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193)

The quran defends itself, you can twist what ever you like, you will fail miserably.

What is next?

Bring me a topic so I can teach you something

Originally posted by telfyr
the crusades, and its terror on knowledge, known as the dark ages etc.
made the Islamic library of Alexandria burn.

That's another thing...

The Crusades are ancient history. I know it's still a popular topic around tea house's in certain locations in the middle east. You'd think that by now they would have moved on to something a little more up to date like pirates of the barbary coast.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bc62e558863e.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by lestweforget
Palestinian preachers are spewing the most vile and offensive language i have heard of since the nazzi regime!
They not only await the fall of america but most world powers where they can once again rule the world and rid it of all jews, as mohammad said "for every rock and tree will want us to finish off every jew".
They await their Mahdi so they can once again rule the world.
If you do not wear Allah is god on your forehead or forearm and convert, you will be beheaded!
Unfortunately islam is the religion of the future.
ISLAM PREACHES PEACE FOR MUSLIMS ONLY!!!

I can agree with nearly everything you said, except "islam is the religion of the future". Islam is the religion of the 7th century Arabian Peninsula, not the future. If anything, it's the religion of the past.

IF it's allowed to become the "religion of the future", under the New Caliphate, then it's only because the rest of the world lost it's 'nads, and doesn't have the stomach for the fight being brought against it any more.

If that happens, it's the religion of a failed world, and all of the future will BE the past.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by LittleSecret

 

You asked for an example of what I meant by my reply when I was refering the separation of church and state. That's it, an example. You asked and you received.

I now hear that Sharia law is attempting to slither it's way into France and the UK. God help them if it does.

??
Bear with me, I got a hangover..

I am absolutely lost here, what is your point, do you want to start a whole new discussion?

I never asked for an example?

Or did I?

I didn't understand your comment therefore asked if you could possibly explain, when you did great.

What does separation of Church and State have to do with anything?...

Wow, this thread still going on. Well, Let me recap -

I don't buy the "peaceful" thing because where in the world is "Islam" peaceful, understanding, and inclusive, forgiving, with equal justice for all no matter one's religion where they have a majority? We only see this "peaceful" thing in places where Islam is not the majority (yet) and even then continues to attempt to change the culture to adopt Islamic laws and traditions (Europe currently).

Many Muslims are peaceful and peace-loving because they do not strictly follow the teachings of their founder. The closer one follows example of Muhammad, the more militant is one's motivation. (T or F?)

What about the Crusades and Inquisition had anything to do with "Jesus"?
Not a damned thing. What teachings of Jesus can we quote to justify these atrocities? Nothing.

What does violence, forced conversion and death to converts away from Islam have to do with Muhammad? Like about EVERYTHING.

You can read the quotes of Jesus and know the message of peace. You can read the quotes of Muhammad and know that message as well.


Anyway, those promoting Islam as "peaceful", please tell me if anything I list below is incorrect.

So, Is the summary below about Muhammad true?

Muhammad forced followers to continue believing, "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him." (Hadith al-Bukhari, Vol. 9, Bk. 84, No. 57)

MUHAMMAD: "May Allah curse the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of the prophets." Bukhari, Vol. 1, #427

MUHAMMAD: told his followers to aggressively make war on non-Muslims: 9:5, 29. Sura 9 was one of the last Suras given by Muhammad. Initially, when Muhammad's group was weak, he ordered his followers to try to get along with other people. After the Muslims became powerful, he ordered them to spread Islam by force. Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman continued his wars of aggression. The massacre of approximately 800 Jewish male captives: (noted in Sura 33:26). War: Muhammad: The Sirat Rasul Allah records Muhammad personally led 27 raids, including Battle of Badr, 624 AD; Battle of Uhud and expulsion of Banu Nadir, 625 AD; Attack on Banu Mustaliq, 626 AD; Battle of the Trench and killing Banu Qurayza, 627 AD; Battle of Khaybar, 628 AD; Battle of Mu’tah, 629 AD; Conquest of Mecca, Battle of Hunayn, Battle of Auras and Siege of al-Ta’if, where Mohammed used a catapult, 630 AD; Battle of Tabouk, Subjugation of Banu Thaqif (Yemen) and subjugation of Ghassanids (Arab Christians), 631 AD.

MUHAMMAD: was a slaver. He owned and sold many slaves, both male and female. He said Allah allowed him and his Muslim followers to have sex with their female slaves when the men wanted to. Reference the Quran, Sura (chapters) 33:50, 52, 23:5, and 70:30. Slaves are considered "booty" for Muslims when taken in raids, thus they are Muslim's property. Muhammad felt proud and conceited enough to enslave thousands of people.

Muhammad's teaching on how to treat enemies:

* Infidels are your sworn enemies (Sura 4:101).
* Be ruthless to the infidels (Sura 48:29).
* Make war on the infidels who dwell around you (Sura 9:123, 66:9).
* Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day (Sura 9:29).
* Strike off the heads of infidels in battle (Sura 47:4).
* If someone stops believing in Allah, kill him (al-Bukhari 9:84:57).
* Take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends (Sura 5:51, 60:13).
* Never be a helper to the disbelievers (Sura 28:86).
* Kill the disbelievers wherever we find them (Sura 2:191).
* No Muslim should be killed for killing an infidel (al-Bukhari 1:3:111).
* The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land (Sura 5:33).

Mohammed : “I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy)” [Bukhari 4.220] And from the Quran “I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." [Q8.12]

"The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them." Qur'an 9:71

"Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy - a fierce slaughter - murdered, a horrible murdering." Qur'an 33:60

"Slay them wherever you find and catch them, and drive them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution and oppression are worse than slaughter." Qur'an 2:191

"I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes." Qur'an 8:12

Fight those who do not believe in Allah, ... until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. [Qur'an 9.29]

Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Qur'an 9:5)

"So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam." Qur'an:8:39

The punishment for those who wage war against God and His Prophet, and perpetrate disorders in the land, is to kill or hang them, or have a hand on one side and a foot on the other cut off, or banish them from the land. Such is their disgrace in the world, and in the Hereafter their doom shall be dreadful. Qur'an 5.33

"If they turn back from Islam, becoming renegades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them." Qur'an 4:90

"Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'" Qur'an:8:7


33:50 - "Prophet, We have made lawful to you ... the slave girls whom God has given you as booty."

4:24 - And all married women (are forbidden) unto your save those (captives) whom your right hand possesses.

"So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)." Qur'an 8:39

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So we will have someone start with the "crusade / inquisition" examples - blah blah. Again, what did Jesus say to do, not that. Some Pope King wants to make war and plays God. Nothing to do with Jesus's teachings at all.

Again, what did Jesus teach?

What did Muhammad teach?

You can't spin it. It is what it is..... and it isn't peaceful.

It is difficult to make a religion "peaceful" when your religion's great Prophet advocates conversion through force, war, deception, and hatred of Christians & Jews, or anyone else that is in the way.



[edit on 7-7-2010 by infolurker]