The Atheists Nightmare

Originally posted by PsychoX42
You shouldn't have brought up the God's remark in the first place. It had no place at all in the conversation.

What was the topic of this thread again then?

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by PsychoX42
You shouldn't have brought up the God's remark in the first place. It had no place at all in the conversation.

What was the topic of this thread again then?

The Atheist's Nightmare. Maybe you should go back and read the chronological events that brought us to your Gods remark.

Connect the dots. Such a simple game that even kids can play. And do me a favor, read the posts "carefully" so that you can "understand" what took the conversation to the point in which it arrived. And then, try to "understand" the points made instead of latching onto one thing that you think will make your "argument" more sufficient, while ignoring everything else that makes the conversation whole.

Bye

Namaste and Love

Oh, and don't try to placate my intelligence by saying that you agreed with everything that I said right up until I explained it. If that were the case, you wouldn't have spent so much time trying to debunk my statements prior to the explanation itself. That's a sheer indication of either manipulation, or a schizophrenic personality. We otherwise call that trolling here on ATS.


[edit on 8-7-2010 by PsychoX42]

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by PsychoX42
You shouldn't have brought up the God's remark in the first place. It had no place at all in the conversation.

What was the topic of this thread again then?

Atheists nightmares. I tried to get back on topic.

reply to post by randyvs


Sure I got not problem helping you out on this thing... believe it or not these are all softball questions. First of all, there is no 'invisible man who lives in the sky'... period... I mean its childish thinking... like santa clause or the boogyman its a fairy tale to keep people in line and to control other people. If there is something out there who in defiance of all the rules and laws he has made that science has shown us (gravity, quantum physics, solar power) that they just so happened to leave OUT of the bible... I doubt he would really be so vain and narcissistic to say you cant get into this 'exclusive club' called heaven unless you believe in him... You dont need to believe in gravity in order for it to be there... it just is... Its emotionless... it doesnt prefer one group of people over another... it just is... this according to the bible is CLEARLY not an attribute of this god fellow... And if we were to buy into this idea that he is somehow there... I dont think the god they write about would give a # wether or not you believed in him... especially since the time of the bible he hasnt done much of anything to provide any proof... Believing in something (the earth is flat) is clearly dumb thinking, and belief in this manner Isnt something that would ever impress God.

Secondly why would it be trumpets? Heaven doesnt have any Roland Synthesizers (I think god could AT LEAST come up with a TB-303 or a fancy synthesizer). These arguments you are coming up with are still BASED in the Bible... you didnt hear god say any of those things... somebody TOLD you he said those things and wrote them down over a 200 year game of telephone... The fact that these people 'prophecized' that people would eventually see through their bull# is no surprise to me whatsoever and actually works against your argument.

What about humble men scoffing at 'god fearing' people? Those people get a pass or something? What you are talking about is a belief... no different than believing in Zeus or believing in Mithra... thats all it is. If it makes you feel better... makes you sleep better at night... then go for it. But dont pass off unproven and untested theories as 'truth' because THATS only how it was explained to you... you didnt come to these realizations on your own. You had to read a book to figure it out.

Originally posted by Phlynx

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by PsychoX42
You shouldn't have brought up the God's remark in the first place. It had no place at all in the conversation.

What was the topic of this thread again then?

Atheists nightmares. I tried to get back on topic.

It wasn't off topic, and quite on topic until people questioned the wrong information in my post and failed to understand the main point. While focusing on the theories that I had listed, people failed to understand that I was making a point to Atheists about not discounting higher possibilities because of the limitations of science. After of which, childishness ensued.

So, you can thank those who couldn't see the "Big Picture" of my post for throwing things off-topic, which ironically, was the entire point of the post.

Just thought you'd like that.

Namaste and Love

[edit on 8-7-2010 by PsychoX42]

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


From your U2u post

God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth.
Genesis 1:16 (The stars gave light to the earth immediately, although the closest star, Alpha Centauri, is 4.3 light years away. So the very first star light would have taken 4.3 years to reach earth. The light we see from the Andromeda Galaxy takes 2.2 million years to reach earth... which also debunks the argument that the earth is only 6,000-10,000 years old.)

First let me state that I already know that you will not accept what I show tell you but here goes anyway.

God is a supernatural spirit and all powerful being able to create and destroy with his word.

Now for you link above we must state some thing first either the Bible is correct and God who is intelligent created all this order in the universe or fallible man who can not agree upon anything got it right about nothing exploding / expanding into everything we see before us, hence chaos created order like say the laws of physics which could not have existed in many of the explanations that "scientist" give in the beginning of this.

II Peter 3:

[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

Now the last days have been going on for some time about 250 years or so, because prior to that all those both of science and religion believe the earth to be young.

[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Now here the statement is clear as many over the ages have claimed a date of the second coming of Christ, this is not because they are all stupid just that they are not paying attention to the signs and the words of God.

[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Here is the statement that is of importance that the heavens were of old, this can be misleading to those who are trying to disprove God. But it is not so, it means that the universe has an apparent age of maturity. (The in the water out of the water is for another time.)

[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

The statement overflowed with water has visible evidence of this action all over the world as most of the world has sedimentary rock. That is rock formed by the process of erosion and being under water and great pressures.
The flood lasted for over a year with depths thousands of feet, the pressures would have crushed things together very well.
...............................................................................................................
Pss.104

1. [2] Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

Isa.40

1. [22] It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

These to verses explain it well in layman's terms:

when ever a word ends in "eth" or "est" that means it is continuing to happen.

Who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain,...............well scientist agree that the heavens are moving or expanding even today.......Einstein even said space and time is like fabric,....did he get his idea from the .....Bible or God?

Now the Bible tells us that the earth was created before the stars, so contrary to scientist belief the earth is the center of the universe.

When God created the stars he did so with them in a proximity that would allow the lite to quickly reach us and he then stretched the heavens away from earth.

analogy

There is a car in you line of sight ten miles away you have a radio and a stop watch, you radio the car to turn on the lights and you measure the time it takes for the light to get here based upon the start and stop time.

Now the same car is in front of you inches and they turn on the lights and back away the light will always be in your eyes the whole ten miles

but in the first instance there was a time of darkness that was measureable.

reply to post by MrXYZ


Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[4] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[5][6]

It appears that you have misunderstood the definition of atheism as it is the rejection of the belief in the existence of deities.

Not rejection in believing.

So one by definition as an atheist believes there is no God.

Hence a belief.

reply to post by Phlynx


Sounds like a good topic for a new thread.

As a Christian a few dreams with demons, usually seem to have some prophetic component. Interestingly enough even at their worst they aren't really frightening. I know where the extent of their considerable power ends, takes away any fear.

Being agnostic I would like to concede that belief in GOD is a good thing...it has led mankind to believe that we do serve a higher purpose and is in a certain way responsible for the little progress we have achieved today.

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38

So one by definition as an atheist believes there is no God.

Hence a belief.

Why do I have to believe in God in order not to believe in a God?

That doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by randyvs

The truth about what I was appealing to is more than evident.
You can say it was fear, but what was it really?
I know you can say it.
So you don't believe in judgement day. That's not any information to me.
You do believe in death. Do you know what happens after life?

Well, to me it sounded like the "fear" religions use to keep their followers following. Which I don't want any part of, thank you. If fear wasn't it was, what was it really?

And I don't think anyone really 'believes' in death. There is nothing to believe in there, it's a fact of life and nature. Nobody knows what happens after life. All we can do is enjoy the life we have and live it to the fullest.

Now to more recent posts:

Yes, man thought up science, man thought up traffic lights, and man thought up and made super heroes, and man thought up and made that computer your using. A long time ago, man even thought up and made scribblings in the desert that other man edited and continued to edit to his liking through out history, and today, unfortunately, some people believe to be those scribblings to end all truth for their questions in life.

You call atheists unable to 'perceive' and unable to accept what they don't know, see, or understand because they don't believe in a 'god'.

Well, I call believers narrow minded and unable to 'perceive' because they take a book, written by a human and edited by many a human, as a basis for understanding universe we know today and its origins, and by not accepting any other possibilities.

[edit on 9-7-2010 by thepainweaver]

Originally posted by WolfofWar
reply to post by randyvs

 

These appear repeatedly in even the Hebrew version. How can god have copy errors? These are from the earliest recorded versions. If an infallible god cannot get it right, how is he god? I'm not even going to get into the innumerable things written in the bible that contradict known psychics. God created the world like a tent. The sky is not a tent, it is round.

Isaiah 40:22 - It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And it's inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Of course Psalms says the world is stationary.

Psalms 93:1 - The Lord reigns, he is clothed with majesty; The Lord is clothed, He has girded Himself with strength. Surely the world is established so that it cannot be moved."

The point is though, if the bible is the word of God, how can if have inaccurisms? How can an infallible being be unable to prevent typos and mis-types in it's ORIGINAL format?

This doesn't matter though, you are asking for evidence of inaccurisms so you can ignore them, not so you can witness them. You have made up your mind before you set those words down on the page, it's not worth me wasting my time to try to "prove" to you anything, in the end of the day, the fact remains, there are innumerable errors in the bible, whether they are factually incorrect statements (like Rabbits eating cud) or just typos. It's just makes you wonder, if an infallable god can allow typos and factually incorrect statements to appear, what else is incorrect? Would he allow more then just one sentence? Perhaps an entire paragraph? what if "Thou Shalt not kill" was actually supposed to be "Thou Shalt not kill on Tuesdays." It's just one word, they forgot it, it got lost in translation. Minor copy error is all.

One error is enough to invalidate the Bible, because the Bible relies on its infallibility of truth. If even a typo exists in it's original form (which they do) then it throws the entire thing out the window, because what else could be false?

I'm positive even Titen would say those are open to interpretation.
Then say something about how you're reaching.
So there has to be a two way street there pal.
You still got nothing sorry!

I have no idea what you even said.

reply to post by Phlynx

Ya ! Phlynx I think this would certainly describe the Atheists dream of
being able to call himself God.

"Hello out there, human. I am God. I am the one who is responsible for all of this around you. Impressed? You better be, in fact I demand it.

Annnnnnywho, I just wanted to let you know that I love you. I am like a Father to you but in a more grand way. I am all powerful. I am all knowing. I made everything, control everything - except your free will, but I already know what you are going to do and how that will work out. Just saying. So I love you UNCONDITIONALLY! I really do. I am so perfect in my forgiveness and love that I can do that.

There are a few conditions though. I have a few minor details that I really kind of want you to keep in mind or else I will stop unconditionally loving you and cause you the worst torment imaginable by giving you over to my enemy to have to do whatever he wants with. Build an army? Pfffffffffft!

So what I am going to do is let you guys take a couple hundred years to write up some remotely related versions of the specific rules I am only going to tell some of you. I want you all to put it together and make it long and confusing. Then fill it with translation errors before passing it out so that there is an excuse for all the stuff you get wrong.

Perfect decription of the Atheist who would be God.

Once again an Atheist or anyone else who does not know God can't begin to describe him. Soooo.......

Try checking out www.Evilbible.com

By the way, I sleep just fine, when Im not logged on to ATS

reply to post by meteoritics

Try checking out www.Evilbible.com

Been there
done that.

[edit on 9-7-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by randyvs


The passages aren't important, it's your own words. How can a book written by God have errors? What else is incorrect in the book? I have something, you are just too disillusioned to see it. That's okay though, it's your right, as a human being, to believe whatever you want for whatever reason. I'm not here to convince you that what you believe is wrong, I don't even know that, nobody does. You think it's true, good for you, a lot of people in different religions disagree with that, and good for them as well. It's not my job to try to show you errors in your religious fad of the month book. They exist, you choose to ignore them, whatever, it's no big deal.

It's a shame that people took the time to write rather long responses to your militant, bigoted, and ignorant look on life, on a thread that you created to essentially say "Hey atheists, your lack of belief in a god is a fad, your kind of bad people probably, and you are going to suffer for an eternity in hell" and you essentially ignore them. It seems by now though, after taking the time to write to you, to discuss to you as though you were an intellectual equal, that I miscalculated.

If you wish to ignore the evidence of obvious errors in the Bible, that's fine, but at least answer me this: If a book has a typo, in your own word, that was there since it's earliest writing, something you admit with your own volition, how can you be sure there were not other copy errors that are more significant? How can you be sure that everything in the book, even if it was scribed by god himself, was not warped or had "copy errors" that changed its message?

reply to post by WolfofWar

If you wish to ignore the evidence of obvious errors in the Bible, that's fine, but at least answer me this: If a book has a typo, in your own word, that was there since it's earliest writing, something you admit with your own volition, how can you be sure there were not other copy errors that are more significant? How can you be sure that everything in the book, even if it was scribed by god himself, was not warped or had "copy errors" that changed its message?

So the King of Judah was either 18 or he was 8. How does that have any bearing on what the story is trying to show you.

None and it's that way with all the big flaws you bring up. They really amount to nothing. Not even close to anything that would make me doubt what I know to be true. Yes I said know. Not believe.

Let me hear your explaination of existence if it sounds better than Gods.
Maybe I will come out of this thread believing you are God.
Isn't that what most atheists want? You think you have it all figured out.
Let me tell you. YOU wouldn't make a pimple on a nats ass.

The Bible and belief in God go back to when we first appeared. They have always been with us. When you die you will have chalked up a whopping 30 to 40 yrs of experince pertaining to this existence.

How arrogant can some one be, is summed up in the fact, you think, I should buy what you say. I'm sorry but you are hilarious.
In fact everyone of you make yourselves look like fools to anyone who can think for themselves.
Coilege hasn't been that good for any of you.
It has completely brainwashed evveryone of you . Why? Subdivisions.
The elites of this world know for a fact God exists.
They know they are his enemy. They are the wicked. Why? Because they decieve many. YOU!

It seems to me BP, would have at least been a clue for some of you!

[edit on 9-7-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by randyvs
So the King of Judah was either 18 or he was 8. How does that have any bearing on what the story is trying to show you.

It doesn't change it as a story. It changes it if you are saying it is in the infallible word of God. If God is making these errors then he is not infallible, and not God. If the copywriters are making these errors then Gods divine powers are not protecting his word from being written accurately. If the later is the case, then where does those errors stop? If somebody can write contradictions accidentally, then perhaps they can deliberately alter and manipulate it. That means the book is no longer the word of god, but the word of man.

None and it's that way with all the big flaws you bring up. They really amount to nothing. Not even close to anything that would make me doubt what I know to be true. Yes I said know. Not believe.

It's the underlying point that the errors exist in the work of an infallible deity and what that means for it's integrity. That's the issue, I figured you would have understood that, considering your desire to "interpret" things. I again most have overestimated, a pity.

Let me hear your explaination of existence if it sounds better than Gods.

I don't have one, I don't know, and neither do you. You think you do, but you do not know for certain. All I know is I exist.

Maybe I will come out of this thread believing you are God.

If you would like to, feel free. You have the right to believe in whatever you wish, and if it brings you happiness, I'm glad for you. Just don't demean others that don't believe in me. That's my only other commandment besides "Do no harm and ill-will to others without their consent."

Isn't that what most atheists want? You think you have it all figured out.

No, that is not what we want, and you are confusing atheists with Christians again. All this thread you have been saying you know, you have it all figured out. Most atheists and "agnostics" on here have been saying almost universally "We don't know."

Let me tell you. YOU wouldn't make a pimple on a nats ass.

So when you can't argue on an intellectual level you revert to trite insults? I don't believe your god would be pleased with that.

The Bible and belief in God go back to when we first appeared. They have always been with us. When you die you will have chalked up a whopping 30 to 40 yrs of experince pertaining to this existence.

That's factually incorrect.

Honestly, you have the emotional maturity of a fourteen year old, based on your responses on this thread. You have brought nothing in the form of intellectual debate and discussion on this thread. Instead you brought bigotry, hatred, intolerance and ignorance. You seem so intent on others to believe what you do, it seems to me that maybe you are projecting your woes and disbelief in your own religion onto others. I believe we have a closet Atheist on our hands, fighting against his own inner demons.

In a way, I pity you.

reply to post by WolfofWar


Save the pity for yourself you will need it.

I don't have one, I don't know, and neither do you. You think you do, but you do not know for certain. All I know is I exist.

Wrong wrong wrong. I don't have anything close to explanation and would never say that I do.
God most certainly does. Not you.



credit Chadwickas for the vid.
The only thing you've brought are someones half baked Ideas.
Get a grip war. You give me no contention that's what the real problem is here. You are so wrong you are laughable, beyond pity, do to arrogance K?
"you have the emotional maturity" what the hell?

It doesn't change it as a story. It changes it if you are saying it is in the infallible word of God. If God is making these errors then he is not infallible, and not God. If the copywriters are making these errors then Gods divine powers are not protecting his word from being written accurately. If the later is the case, then where does those errors stop? If somebody can write contradictions accidentally, then perhaps they can deliberately alter and manipulate it. That means the book is no longer the word of god, but the word of man.

It dosn't change anything for anybody except for you.
You need to think about that.

[edit on 9-7-2010 by randyvs]