The Atheists Nightmare

Originally posted by _R4t_

I've simply pointed out that there's seems to be a "general" decline of moral standards and ethics that seems to be directly following the decline of "general" religious beliefs and coincide at the same time with a rise in incarceration rates... If you can't see that your blind or around 16 years old...

I think that's a slightly simplistic view.

Was the days when entire cultures - such as in South America - were wiped out by Christians because they didn't conform with Christrian Doctrine really any better? And many who commit crimes claim to be religious. Maybe more are today atheist simply because 100 years ago people were more indoctrinated into following a religion and thus atheism was much rarer.

And is not one of the biggest threats to world security today caused by religion? Specifically Islam, but also in some areas Christians, Sikhs and others?

I am not saying that religion is bad because it leads to conflict and war, but undoubtably that has - and continues - to happen.

Whether a totally atheist world in which reigions never existed would be better is a moot point. I suspect, being humans, we'd fight just as much for other reasons.

Originally posted by randyvs
Are you people just not into self preservation or what?
I can certainly imagine myself, after death, resting
peacefully in my grave, with nothing to ever come and
bother me. Even after a lifetime of belief in God.

You do know that is just one interpretation, right? Many more believe that your soul leaves your body at death, so your corpse isn't doing anything but taking up space.

The thing I can't imagine and am glad I will never have to...
Would be if I was suddenly awakened from that eternal sleep,
by the deafing sound of trumpets blaring loud enough to wake the dead.
Then as an Angel is rushing by my comfortable grave, he pauses and points
the way to Judgement day.

What about decomposition? Yes, your bones eventually decompose as well. So what will the angel be looking for?

The thing I find so ironic about Atheism, is that it is also is a part of prophecy.
...
If it weren't for Atheism the Bible might be in error.

Don't worry - there is PLENTY that the Bible errs about.

"All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you."

Let me know when you see a four-legged bird.

"And the hare, because he cheweth the cud..."

Except rabbits don't do that.

"...Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights"

"...Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly..."

Note: fish and whales are not the same.

"the kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed which…is the least of all seeds, but when it is grown is the greatest among herbs and becometh a tree."

Mustard seeds aren't the smallest of seeds, and they don't grow into trees.

"Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them."

The earth is round, therefore altitude won't let you see every kingdom of the world.

A believer can handle snakes or drink poison and not experience any harm.

Let us know how that works out for you.

God fortold of the day when arrogant men would scough at
God fearing people.

No way. You mean a religious text saw a future in which its adherents would be ridiculed? That's CRAZY. It's like if I posted some ridiculous theory about how fairies are actually what produces electricity, then said "Some will say this is complete nonsense." AND THEN IT WILL HAPPEN AS I HAVE FORETOLD!

[quote[So start off with the truth that everyone knows ( There is only one truth)

And you just so happen to know this truth. The truth that billions of people do NOT believe (quite a few less than "everyone"). But I applaud you for overcoming your inferiority complex by finding some other group to belittle.

Your life is literally in your hands.

So I should believe simply because I'm supposed to? God doesn't know the difference between sincere faith and just pretending? Pretty bad for an omniscient being.

Here's a thought - if you're secure in your faith, then why does it bother you so much when people doubt it? Face whatever comes your way with a smile...that is, if you're certain you're right. More likely, your faith is shaky so atheists really make you uncomfortable since, deep down, you're afraid they may be right.

Originally posted by _R4t_



I've simply pointed out that there's seems to be a "general" decline of moral standards and ethics that seems to be directly following the decline of "general" religious beliefs and coincide at the same time with a rise in incarceration rates... If you can't see that your blind or around 16 years old...

Behaving ethically only because of divine mandate is not true ethical behavior but merely blind obedience. (Julian Baggini)

Originally posted by _R4t_
There's a God, form of higher power that must of created it all... I doubt it just ALL HAPPENED with a big KABOUM... I made lots of sh!t blow up with black powder and no lifeform ever came out of it...

So...you think you're supposed to have God's power?

Well, that or you have a fundamental ignorance of the actual "Big Bang" theory.

Originally posted by _R4t_
I've simply pointed out that there's seems to be a "general" decline of moral standards and ethics that seems to be directly following the decline of "general" religious beliefs and coincide at the same time with a rise in incarceration rates... If you can't see that your blind or around 16 years old...

Yes. The world is definitely ending. THIS time, anyway.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7abfbd8efb2d.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Maybe you should ask the creator of this thread why it is any of his or your business what we may or may not think about the afterlife? How do you all keep missing the fact that this thread was NOT started by an atheist but a "christian."

Cry about being attacked in a thread started by atheists to attack you.

There are several topics in this forums where atheists attack christians, i saw one recently that said something like "... atheists nations are more peaceful" or something like that.
And you are right the creator of this topic said something stupid, if you are atheist then you don't have to worry about judgement because you also don't believe in that but that doesn't give you the right to attack all christians, you know you can't generalize and say that christians are to blame for wars, the dark age, etc.
Also don't say that all athetists are peaceful and that they woun't hurt a fly There's good christians and good atheists as well as bad atheists and bad christians and those bad christians are the real ones going to hell.

Originally posted by mothershipzeta

God fortold of the day when arrogant men would scough at
God fearing people.

No way. You mean a religious text saw a future in which its adherents would be ridiculed? That's CRAZY. It's like if I posted some ridiculous theory about how fairies are actually what produces electricity, then said "Some will say this is complete nonsense." AND THEN IT WILL HAPPEN AS I HAVE FORETOLD!

You realize the stupidity in your response?
When the apostoles wrote that, people were witnesses of the wonders that Jesus did, even non believers back then converted to christianity so there were a lot of believers. But your "fairies example" it's BS today and even in ancient times you wouldn't have many followers with such a statement.

[edit on 8-7-2010 by orumlight]

[edit on 8-7-2010 by orumlight]

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by _R4t_

i605.photobucket.com...

Took the graph from google and removed the part prior to 1980 to base things in 1980 since one of the graph doesnt go prior to that year

Awesome graph of nothing. That is my point. I want to challenge the logic YOU INTRODUCED with what you said. The reason being is that you are making crazy claims not based in reality. Either all atheists are running around killing and stealing or they are all not. Even your graph does not do anything to take away the fact that criminals still come in religious varieties as well as non-religious varieties. Either atheism leaves you with no morals or not.

SO, CAN YOU ACTUALLY ANSWER THE QUESTIONS I ASKED YOU?

Or have you realized the huge flaw in your claim?

Well, for one thing I see that it's mostly Ronald Reagan's fault, since the decline in church attendance and rise in incarceration started when he was elected...and the God-fearing Christian George W. Bush didn't reverse the trend in 8 years.

reply to post by Robbo2006

Some of my friends are atheist, But got Married in a church of God.

Wow Tight post Robbo. Even relates to the OP.

K for the sake of the thread
if YOU are not on topic.
Dosn't matter who you are, I will use your ALERT. Makes me feel like a rat
but I feel I need to set some order some how. Just stay on topic and we're cool. I don't want to hit anyones alert k? Carry on.

reply to post by randyvs


I ALERTED you because you post warning about you alerting people who are off topic is in fact an off topic post.

Originally posted by WolfofWar
reply to post by randyvs

 

I ALERTED you because you post warning about you alerting people who are off topic is in fact an off topic post.

Wouldn't this need to be alerted too? Would my post need to be alerted?

reply to post by Phlynx


Oh no, chain reaction! I think he just destroyed this thread!

It's like he divided by zero!

reply to post by mothershipzeta


The very fact that any of you think you can find errors in the Bible,
or in my OP.
When part of the OT was written about a world that passed before us. A world we knew nothing about
is proof you will ignore the facts to serve your own spoiled way.
You don't believe in God you can't find any errors in his word. Because you know nothing about God.

Belief in God, is the beginning of Knbowledge.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by mothershipzeta

 

The very fact that any of you think you can find errors in the Bible,
or in my OP.
When part of the OT was written about a world that passed before us. A world we knew nothing about
is proof you will ignore the facts to serve your own spoiled way.
You don't believe in God you can't find any errors in his word. Because you know nothing about God.

Belief in God, is the beginning of Knbowledge.

The Bible is supposedly the word of God, and if flaws can be found in the Bible you are finding flaws in his word.

What is knbowledge?

reply to post by Phlynx


I think you play dumb at the oddest times Phlynx.
The point was all the silly little things you want to call flaws. Probably aren't flaws at all. Let's see some of these flaws you speak of then.
Show me your proof of these flaws. Bring these dead skins before me.
Make sure they will suffice in a world you knew nothing about. A world with
a different environment entirely. A world where the angels of God took on human form. A world where they being superior in intelligence size and strength performed experiments on all the inhabitants of the earth.
A world where those experiments resulted in abominations to the lord.
I think you get picture or would you like me to go on, I was on a roll.

Waiting on you.

[edit on 8-7-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by orumlight

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Maybe you should ask the creator of this thread why it is any of his or your business what we may or may not think about the afterlife? How do you all keep missing the fact that this thread was NOT started by an atheist but a "christian."

Cry about being attacked in a thread started by atheists to attack you.

There are several topics in this forums where atheists attack christians, i saw one recently that said something like "... atheists nations are more peaceful" or something like that.
And you are right the creator of this topic said something stupid, if you are atheist then you don't have to worry about judgement because you also don't believe in that but that doesn't give you the right to attack all christians, you know you can't generalize and say that christians are to blame for wars, the dark age, etc.
Also don't say that all athetists are peaceful and that they woun't hurt a fly

There's good christians and good atheists as well as bad atheists and bad christians and those bad christians are the real ones going to hell.

When did he say all atheists were peaceful?

If the devout fundamentalists who believe in a creator were to learn that the creator was, in fact, a nerdy young games programmer in another universe a billion years ahead of ours, would it matter to them? Would they be disappointed to learn that they are convincing holograms?

reply to post by randyvs

Genesis 2:17 - But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Genesis 5:5 - And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

First he should surely die if he eats the fruit, but instead he lives nine hundred years.

James 1:13 - Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.
Genesis 22:1 - And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.

Hey, I thought God neither tempts any man, so why is he tempting Abraham? Maybe he is just a liar?

Exodus 20:4 - Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Deuteronomy 4:23 - Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee.

Is this like a catch 22, don't make idols and graven images, but do so?

2 Kings 24:8- Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

2 Chronicles 36:9- Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.

Eh, it's only a ten year difference, no biggie, right?

Psalms 58:10- The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked

Proverbs 24:17- Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth:

So I guess we are to somehow wash our feets with blood and not be joyous?

Isaiah 40:28- Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? There is no searching of his understanding.

Exodus 31:17- It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed

I guess he just rested for fun?

Originally posted by PieKeeper

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by PieKeeper

 

Come-on now! A person of your ability in discernment can absolutly see that I'm appealing to common sense. Do you know what happens after we die?

[edit on 3-7-2010 by randyvs]

No, and you don't either. Since there is no evidence for an afterlife, to believe that there is one is silly.

There's not really that much evidence for anything...now is there? Isn't that the reason why we call everything that we think that we know, a theory?
1. Theory of Gravity
2. Theory of Evolution
3. Theory of General Relativity
4. Cosmological Principle Theory
5. Hubble's Law (theory)
6. Game Theory
The fact is, there isn't enough evidence to prove any of these theories, otherwise they would be known as fact. Yet, everything that we are basing our current realities off of is surrounded by things that we cannot definitively prove because of the limitations of science and half-cocked theories, that we have very little evidence for.

Isn't that a kicker? How does that make you feel? Your whole reality is dependent off of things that haven't been proven by solid irrefutable evidence and yet you readily accept these things as truth daily.

Now personally, I agree that creating arguments with the basis of fear is not the best method, however, I think you misinterpreted randyvs's (sorry for mispelling) intent for creating the thread. Although, I will admit, the title of the thread kind of supports your misgivings about fear being the primary motive.

Nonetheless, there are new and exciting ideas being proposed by science daily which informs us that things may not necessarily be what they seem on the surface. Just because there is no blatant evidence of an afterlife does not eliminate it from the very real realms of possibilities. You're still thinking in a flat, two dimensional platform, that is mathematically limited by the slow evolution of scientific discovery as opposed to a more advanced multidimensional and progressive model of reality.

For instance: The ultraviolet frequency existed far before the scientific discovery of its existence in 1801.
en.wikipedia.org...

So this literally means that after the death of Christ, it literally took science 1 thousand, Eight Hundred and 1 years, to discover that a dimensional spectrum existed outside the limited perceptions of human awareness. Ouch. And to think, that very spectrum existed far before mankind ever walked this planet, and obviously existed since the very conception of this planet itself. Had science not made this discovery, there would still be people walking around, such as yourself, claiming that there couldn't possibly be anything, neither light or frequency, that could exist outside of the limitations of our perception.

That my friend is the inherent danger of atheism and the rise of the "rational mind." If you continue to limit yourself to the findings and the discoveries of science which requires proof, then you will find yourself behind the learning curve of the Universe.

If everything is energy as Einstein stated, that would mean that there are multiple layers of energy and frequencies which composes the energy grid in which the earth operates. Indeed then, there are many dimensions/frequencies that exist in which science has yet to register or discover because they lack the mathematics to translate and create technology that could access them. This is the reason for projects like the LHC. Also, if energy is neither created or destroyed, then, this would be the strongest form of evidence that we have of to offer in the existence of an afterlife. Your body itself is a frequency and operates off of a certain resonance and vibration, which means, when you die, that frequency must still continue elsewhere, if the energy itself cannot be destroyed.

I propose that the afterlife is nothing more than a frequency, that has yet to be discovered by mainstream science, that is accessible either at the moment of death, or through various means that elevate your vibrational awareness to feel them. Millions of people have reported Near Death Experiences in which they saw and experienced various forms of afterlife scenarios. Many would say that this is merely a hallucination spawned by chemicals that are released during the death process. I would support this theory, but, take it one step further. This very chemical that is released ('___', Dimethyltryptamine) is the one that is essential to raise the vibrational pattern of the spirit in order to perceive or access these "hallucinations" and then it opens the very doorway/dimension (the one's that science has yet to measure), that the spirit can move through as the physical body shuts down. Not only is this possible, its probable.

I believe that there are certain things that science will never discover because many of these higher frequencies/dimensions are far too complex for science to mathematically explain. Therefore, the afterlife will remain an enigma until these frequencies, which were once clearly defined, start to blend in with the three dimensional frequency in which we currently reside.

Just another side of the coin my friend.

Namaste and Love