As faithful as blind

The ones having faith are the blind ones trying to lead the way.

Quick definitions of «to believe» and «faith».
To believe is accepting an idea, a theory, a story, a statement... as true out of conviction, (sufficient) PROOF not being required.
Faith is an absolute belief. It’s commonly used for the belief in God. It ’s the same acceptance based on (the texts/books supposedly transmitted through MEN by) a Supreme Being, and its very existence...
www.thefreedictionary.com...

Just having said that I’m still chocked to see that one can base is WHOLE LIFE on a concept like this! I still don’t understand how can a sane person, KNOWINGLY, by a (proud?!) choice, make the decision to say, without laughing: «Yes, my thoughts/«reasoning»/behavior/life is based on ideas/concepts totally irrational/un-provable… And that’s the best way to go!»

Ok, in fact, and even if they don’t realize it, they do try to make sense of it all, they try to apply logic to their reasoning, to prove that the existence and the words of (THEIR) God are true…
But it’s bound to fail. Because the concept they base their life upon suppose the opposite of that. It DOESN’T ALLOW critical, logical thinking… They (not all faithers but those of the 3 big ones for sure) even have a word/concept for that: «blasphemy». Many were burned alive for this «outrageous» (sarcasm) behavior…

So, what they do is JUSTIFYING, try to DEMONSTRATE the «truth» of their beliefs, of the Bibles STATEMENTS. But in NO WAY they can prove anything because they would have to be rational/logical and, above all, critical/open-minded for that.
You CANNOT PROVE a concept (faith) which is BY DEFINITION and by their own confession (pun intended) ILLOGICAL!
When will that get in the head of everyone?? For good!
Everyone can see it… But them. And if you try to show them their errors, they will consider you as a Satan’s follower… Seriously! 21st Century, isn’t it? Do you understand why we need to evolve?

I really would like you to be at least open-minded about ALL the many problems I raised in precedent threads (like: Definitive Proof: God doesn’t exist Part 1&2).
For you to realize that, contrarily of what faithers believe, the «Holy» books are really not perfectly sound nor of a beyond-human level.
Even to think that, for you, they are beautiful and seemingly ageless is quite difficult for me to understand.
And for anyone not blinded by faith, the Bible and all the other «Holy» books are full of paradoxes, incoherencies. I think I succeeded in showing some.

The problem being always the same: FAITH. Muslims will see some (incoherencies, paradoxes, mistakes), Jews others, Buddhists more…
They will all see problems in the faith of others but NEVER in their own!
Not surprising… But I hope YOU can see that by NOW.
Only this should, at least, make a faither raise an eyebrow… But No… They sincerely are clueless on how can other religions don’t see their mistakes but they imagine their own as «clearly superior». Baffling…

I help you again: Well, IT’S BECAUSE THEY HAVE FAITH OF COURSE!!! Any logical argument you’ll try to present them will be refuted, or simply politely (or not) dismissed.
ALL faiths are «wrong» by definition! Because none have THE Truth… But they ALL believe they do! And as soon as they have power, they try to force it on you. Each religion believes that it’s the true one. DON’T YOU GET IT???

That’s what is Faith… The death of any inquisitive, critical mind. The OPPOSITE of what TRUE REASONNING is.
That’s why faith, any faith is simultaneously bad and good for wannabe masters.

Bad because, ultimately, they want a faith that they completely engineered, totally devoted to their «gods» or to concepts so diffuse that can be used indifferently for helping or enslaving people.

[edit on 3-7-2010 by Project_USA]

[edit on 3-7-2010 by Project_USA]

(Thread continuation)

But good because as long as people believe they know THE truth, well… They’ll never get even close to it… They stopped looking for it, as they already (believe they) have it. They won’t even bother considering an alternate way to live their life and understand it. (Plus, wannabe masters love concepts like «give the other cheekbone», non-violence and more generally «I accept everything because it’s God’s will/test stuff», submission/sheep behavior…).
Anyway what’s truly important for them is that YOU respect the rules (not them), or to make rules that will profit them FAR MORE than you and that you stay clueless about what’s really going on.

I also want to point out that, beyond their hypocrisy or their denials, many would like to be in their place, to be as rich/powerful than they ("rulers") are. And I’m even almost sure that they would act pretty much the same (as careless, un-empathically) than they ("rulers") do…
Dark times are upon us. And I don’t talk about Satan nor God’s wrath… Just us… upon ourselves…
And I’m inclined to think, looking at the behavior/ideas/beliefs/CHOICES of people around me and across the world, that most of us deserve what our lives are about to become…

[edit on 3-7-2010 by Project_USA]

You have faith in the documentation of Science, do you not? Can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that what is written in those documents is absolutely correctly reported and interpreted? No, neither you nor anyone else - not even another scientist - can do that.

So what are you saying? Have faith in nothing whatsoever? Kind of paranoid. I prefer to believe everything until it's proven false and then I don't care anyway because I never had any ego attachment to it anyway. But it was nice to hear something new and see someone excited about it. So what if they were wrong. The only path to the truth is to stumble over the stones.

There are certain things that I know to be absolutely true and no one will ever convince me otherwise. Those are my truths. They cannot be replicated in a laboratory setting. But there are others who know them to be true as well and there are many who don't know yet, and still others who may never know. But again, I hold no ego attachment to that truth. It just is. I accept it gratefully.

Just having said that I’m still chocked to see that one can base is WHOLE LIFE on a concept like this! I still don’t understand how can a sane person, KNOWINGLY, by a (proud?!) choice, make the decision to say, without laughing: «Yes, my thoughts/«reasoning»/behavior/life is based on ideas/concepts totally irrational/un-provable… And that’s the best way to go!»

You do realize this applies to almost everything, especially ideology.

Democracy
Capitalism
Fascism
Communism
Socialism
Objectivism
Credit
Government
Law

Even history, society and reality, your senses, your memory to an extent are based on faith.

Even science, we have faith in the scientitists who are working on various theories. We have faith they will be honest, objective, and diligent.

To truly ignore faith, one would have to be skeptical of everything.

You couldn't even believe in yourself. You might not be you. You don't know. You might not exist.

At that point why even be alive? Why do anything?

That kind of logic can consume someone's mind and if they are not careful take their life. It can and has destroyed societies and nations.

You can do two things, either accept the paradox of reality or turn your awareness down and deal with immediate needs and wants. If you dwell on this all consuming logic, it will develop into self destructive obsession.
You can't function in society like that. Being right or wrong doesn't matter. Humans don't work that way. You'll end up as an outcast, though you find comfort in others who share your obsession.

Sit back and think what is my goal and purpose of this? You won't change the world. Dawkins wrote a best selling book "The god delusion", Carl Sagan's had "The demon haunted world". Your no Sagan or Dawkins.

Find yourself and peace will follow.

[edit on 3/7/10 by MikeboydUS]

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
You have faith in the documentation of Science, do you not? Can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that what is written in those documents is absolutely correctly reported and interpreted?

I have faith in gravity. I can drop something and watch it take action. Faith diminished into belief. I have faith in medicine. Either it is magical fairy dust that does not work, or millions of people are NOT dying from medical treatment every single second. You have faith in talking donkeys, fairy godfathers, and people who lived to be 900 years old. Tested any of that faith, lately?

reply to post by K J Gunderson


And how would you know that my faith rests there? Please explain, because you are somewhat more than incorrect. I said Creator. I never said I believed. I said I know. I have faith, but I never said bible or God or any of those things. Don't assume. You've erred rather gravely.

Faith is something else altogether. Faith is the most powerful thing in existence.

You believe in Western medicine? Shame on you. Examine your value system. I'll say no more there.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

And how would you know that my faith rests there?

I read what you wrote. You were either talking about the Christian god of the bible, or one you just plain made up yourself. If it was the latter, nothing else you said would be valid in any manner so I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

Please explain, because you are somewhat more than incorrect. I said Creator.

I know what you said. I also know the insanity that is making up your own god and then arguing about how true it is. Again, I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

I never said I believed. I said I know.

Little difference there really. Unfortunately, you are either wrong or lying. You do not know anything about any creator. If you "knew" then you would have something concrete to share. Have you?

I have faith, but I never said bible or God or any of those things.

You just said you did not believe. Now you say you have faith. Perhaps if you made sense when you wrote...

Don't assume. You've erred rather gravely.

You are right. I should have opened by stating you either meant the biblical god or one you just made up. My bad.

Faith is something else altogether. Faith is the most powerful thing in existence.

Apparently not because it cannot even keep you from deciding if you believe or not.

You believe in Western medicine? Shame on you. Examine your value system. I'll say no more there.

Ah....what did you say about assuming? I guess it was right where I made claims about "western medicine"

reply to post by K J Gunderson


That's enough time wasted here. I'm out - as far as this thread is concerned. Have fun alone here.

Second line.

Wow! Talk about an agenda! You have been a member for three days and written five anti-religion threads in two days. You do realize that you are exactly what you appear to despise about religious people?

I find great fault in both sides who are on the impossible mission to convince everyone else that theirs' is the "only truth" and the other side is always wrong.

Why can't you just believe, or not, and stop worrying about what others believe? The only absolute is that none of us, who are still breathing, know the "truth". It is all speculation. The religious have "faith" they are right and you have "faith" you are right. Guess what... You are, probably, both wrong. But, that is the perfect thing about individualism. It is OK to be different, have different opinions and different beliefs.

It really is an enormous waste of valuable time to tell anyone "You are wrong and I'm going to prove it." Only those who agree with you listen to anything you have to say and 99.9% of those you think you need to convince, will completely shut you out. Then, there are those like me who don't care what you or anyone else believes about religion. We just want to be left to seek out our own path.

[edit on 3-7-2010 by WTFover]