Russia to supply Palestinians with fifty Russian-made armored vehicles within days.

This makes no sense.... or maybe they really are trying to start WWIII... that's what that visit by the Russian president was all about.... what scraps of the US they can salvage after the dust settles...

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


Oh those poor Israelis, how they suffer at the hands of the evil Pallestinians...
Thousands of rockets.. 28 deaths?
I say arm the living piss out of the Pallestinians, give them tanks, air defense systems, military advisors, missiles, mines... the works. Then send an international coalition of troops to force Israel back to it's original borders. Maybe facing an armed opponent rather than a concentration camp will move the peace process along, nobody else seems to be able to keep Israeli thugs out, maybe that job belongs to the Pallestinian people and it's high time they were given the means to do it. If that has to come from Russia so be it. The world is sick of Israel's talmudic aparthied, sick of their Mossad agents running amuck in their countries, and the world is absolutely sick of hearing the victim mantra being used to justify little more than genocide in Pallestine.

How many of these 'thousands' of rockets do you suppose were lauched by guys like these?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/131948698db1.jpg[/atsimg]
Or these?

Terrorism is terrorism...

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
-David Ben-Gurion, May 1948

Shall we hold Israel to the same standards as Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran? It's just a matter of time before the world demands it, or Karma mandates it.

reply to post by twitchy

In 1948 Palestinian and Arab armies were armed as good as Israelis. And for some reason they did not care about international borders.
As you do not care about truth by the way.
Lie is lie and this is a lie:

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." -David Ben-Gurion, May 1948

Ben Gurion never said those words. Or you can show me WHERE and WHEN did he say that? Doubt that you will be honest enough though.
Previous version of same lie was attributed to Koenig report,indeed racist one, but still Koenig never said that and his report was rejected.
You know, it is pretty funny that you link to site that supposedly exposes Israeli lies but fall so easily to anti-Israeli ones.
Guess it is Talmudic apartheid at work too.

[edit on 30-6-2010 by ZeroKnowledge]


[edit on 30-6-2010 by ZeroKnowledge]

Truth, lies... the truth of the matter is that Zionism is a pitiful and theological excuse for racism, genocide, and thuggery. Would you like to argue over one quote, or shall we entertain the masses with a debate about several of them, just a few of which I will list here so you can deny them all categorically. There's many more of them I can bring along here as I've made a study of it through the years, but let's start with these...

robertlindsay.wordpress.com...
David Ben-Gurion
Moshe Sharett
Ze'ev (Zeev) Jabotinsky
Chaim Weizmann
Arthur Ruppin
Moshe Dayan
Yosef Weitz
Aharon Cizling
Israel Zangwill
Shmuel Zuchovitzky
Menachem BeginAhad Ha'AmMoshe Smilansky
Theodor Herzl
Yigal Allon
Nahman Syrkin
tonydavies.me.uk...
www.palestineremembered.com...
3rddimension.online.fr...
www.facebook.com...
monabaker.com...
www.rense.com...
www.jewwatch.com...
radioislam.org...
radioislam.org...

Talmudic apartheid in Pallestine is just one aspect of this inhuman belief of being chosen by god above all others. It's a sickening and extremist view, and it has no place in a global minded populace. The sooner somebody arms the Pallestinians, the sooner a real peace process can begin because it will be based on the alien concept of equality. Kick an old woman around at the border crossing and she shoots you, bulldoze a neighborhood and face a militia, that's the only way Israel is going to learn what it means to be part of a community in the middle east. It's easy being god's chosen when your on the right end of a rifle backed by the western world, yet not so easy when you face the same.


[edit on 30-6-2010 by twitchy]

Originally posted by INQUISITION11
These are going to the West Bank not Gaza.I'm not sure weather there is a blockade into the West Bank or not ,i thought Israels relations with Abbas were better than with Hamas.

Bingo!

Mahmoud Abbas' Fateh organisation recieved several containers of arms and ammunition from Israel via Egypt to instigate an armed coup against Hamas a year or two ago, and were duly beaten back by Hamas forces.

So it seems that the same strategy is being played and this time they are being given APCs.

What you have to take into account in the whole Gaza sitiuation is that a huge oil/gas field has been found just off the Gazan coast and granted property of the Palestinian state.

The deals have already been struck with Abbas, the Israeli state, and various energy corporations to tap that wealth. All that remains is to oust Hamas from the strip.

Hello again folks another interesting article to have a gander at. Relating to the ole spy gate going on at the minute.

news.antiwar.com...

Some rising tensions and harsh words of criticism from both sides.

reply to post by twitchy

Truth, lies...

I understand that you do not care if what you say is truth or lie as long as it helps demonizing Israel.
So bombarding me with gozillion of links instead of discussing your own previous post is a good strategy but since it really does not matter for you what is truth and what is lie, as long as you insert magic "talmudic apartheid" phrase - i hope that you will understand me not taking it all seriously.
What is the point in discussion if there is no integrity to it and you only want to cry out propaganda slogans?

Originally posted by twitchy
just a few of which I will list here so you can deny them all categorically.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
What is the point in discussion if there is no integrity to it and you only want to cry out propaganda slogans?

Well there it is, categorical denial as predicted.
As to my choice of terminology, would you prefer genocidial racist maniacs rather than Talmudic Aprthied, is there a better word for starving and killing people to take their land from them in the name of your own mythology? Propaganda slogan, or just plain old black and white reality?
The source of my original post is from the Koenig report as leaked to the Israeli newspaper Al-Hamishmar in September, 1976 and, a nasty little document which detailed the use of 'coercive measures'against the INDIGENOUS arab population. From the Koenig Report to the The Tolidano Testimony, it's pretty clear what the policy is in Israel. Making life minserable for the people that live there.
We're off topic, so I will close here with one thought...
Peace in the reigon is impossible in the face of Zionism, if Russia wants to arm the Pallestinian people, awesome, perhaps shooting fish in a barrel won't be as entertaining to the Israelis if the fish can shoot back.


[edit on 30-6-2010 by twitchy]

reply to post by twitchy

I do not get it - Ben Gurion who died in 1973 said it or Koenig report written in 1975 said it? Or none? Or you simply do not care? Truth,lie....
You got the info that Ben Gurion said from the same site you get the info about apartheid. And both are junk and lies.
There are more then million Muslim Arabs in Israel proper. Israeli citizens. I fail to notice protests against apartheid. There is discrimination, yes. And there are protests against it. There are issues with lands and there are protests against it. There are no demonstrations against apartheid because there is no such thing in Israel. There are same hospitals, same public transportation,same parliament, same jurisdiction, same rights. Except to serve in military.
In West Bank - that is NOT Israel but under Israeli occupation,unless you disagree of course , there are different rules that apply to ALL Israelis (from all ethnic backgrounds) and ALL Palestinians. Like roads that can be used by ALL Israelis and not by Palestinians and areas were ALL Israelis are forbidden to enter but not Palestinians. So you can say that there is apartheid between Israelis and non-Israelis. But then you have to agree that any occupied place in the world has an apartheid.
In Gaza - that is not Israel - there are NO Israelis. And there are no Jews. Apartheid...... Right.
As for murderous and ctr - it is better to look in the mirror first. There are lots and lots of countries that caused more death and suffering,even since 1948, then Israel did. Talmudic, all of them, i say.
p.s - Koenig report ,while a transparently racist one, also did not say what you cited.
Here, you can read this,ehhh, thing here:
issuu.com...
I think you would rather drown me in another gozillion of links though. At least spare all the "Truth, lie.." ones, please.

reply to post by marmitenews



This is a rehashed article about a delivery that was supposed to take place in 2006. However with the elections the Russians became concerned of Hamas fighters getting access to the vehicles (as it turns out they were right) . These vehicles were supposed to go to Palestinian Preventive Security Service's headquarters in the Gaza Strip. However when hamas violently took over the government in the Battle of Gaza in 2007 these vehicles were not delivered.

On June 13, Hamas seized the headquarters of the Fatah-controlled National Security Forces in northern Gaza. Gunmen fought for control of high-rise buildings serving as sniper positions and Hamas said it had bulldozed a Fatah outpost controlling Gaza's main north-south road. Also on that day, an explosion wrecked the Khan Younis headquarters of the Fatah-linked Preventive Security Service, killing five people

This effectively ended the support from the United States and Russia. Thats why i all ways laugh when they say Hamas was elected by the people its a half truth. Some Hamas officials were elected into the government then on june 15th they took over the rest. by killing the other opposition party.

On June 14 Abbas dissolved the Palestinian-Hamas unity government, on June 15, Hamas completed the control over Gaza

Equivalent to in the United States the democrats killing off the republicans because they won in elections. But as people say here all the time Hamas are not terrorists are they?

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


You cant answer a question with another question. First attempt to answer the question posed, then ask another question. That is how debate works.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


I agree that this is how it works. Though i do not sure what question you are talking about ,exactly.
If it is about why it is not ok for Russia to supply Palestinian autonomy - then i will say that it is perfectly ok for Russia to supply Palestinian autonomy with weapons. Israel also supplies Palestinian autonomy with weapons. I did not hear Israeli officials speaking out against current deal involving Russian armored vehicles. Hope it is presented in a form that is more easily understood.


[edit on 1-7-2010 by ZeroKnowledge]

These vehicles are unarmed and they are going to THE WEST BANK, NOT GAZA. Do folk son here just choose not to read? Abbas is actually on pretty good terms with the West AND with Israel.

In the West's eyes (and Israels) the West Bank are the GOOD GUYS and Gaza are the BAD GUYS.

Originally posted by soleprobe
This makes no sense.... or maybe they really are trying to start WWIII... that's what that visit by the Russian president was all about.... what scraps of the US they can salvage after the dust settles...

Okay, Russia helped Iran build their nuclear facilities, they sold loads of military hardware to Venezuela, and now they are backing the Palestinians, plus our ships are in the Gulf. And, Israel has been allowed by the Saudi's to store hardware on their Northern Borders.

Get ready folks, because the poop is getting ready to be tossed into the fan!

~ MidnightPoet

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


Actually Israel is not at war with Gaza.

"Gaza" is not an entity that war can be declared upon. It's a section of a pseudo-state. Either Israel needs to declare war on both sides of Palestine, or it can't declare war - which is why it hasn't declared war, even while perpetrating acts of war in Gaza, the West bank, and East Jersualem, as well as crimes against humanity in Gaza and East Jerusalem.

Second, Israel is not at war with Hamas, either; Hamas is the dominant party in the legislature of the Palestinian Authority. Going to war with Hamas would be like if someone were to declare war on the United States' Democratic party.

Perhaps if Israel were to lift its illegal blockade - and yes, under international law and rules of war, it IS illegal - it would get fewer rockets?

And for the record? Hamas does not fire explosive rockets. They are basically rocket-propelled bullets. Hezbollah has actual explosive rockets; Hamas does not.

And yes, over a period of ten years, those rockets have killed 27 people. Wanna see something interesting, though?

Israel - Just Israel, not the occupied territories - has a homicide rate of 2.29. Now, good for Israel, that's actually really, really low (Russia has a rate of 18.6, for comparison). Israel has a population of 7,308,800. That means, in a given year, about a hundred and sixty Israelis are intentionally murdered by other Israelis.

In ten years, Hamas' rockets have killed 27 Israelis.
In ten years, Israelis have killed over a thousand Israelis.

Do you want to know how many Israelis are killed in car accidents in a year? 461 Israelis died from automotive fatalities in 2000 alone.

Israelis have more to worry about from their neighbors and their roads than they do from the Palestinians.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

Actually Israel is not at war with Gaza.

Just as Gaza is not in war with Israel. And yet Israel blockades Gaza and bombs it and Gaza fires rockets (with explosives) and mortar rounds into Israel. By the way, rockets and mortars from Gaza came before the blockade.
This is the situation on the ground.
With mutual crimes against humanity - you conviniently forget that Hamas is also blamed in those by the same institutions that blame Israel.
So you wonder that Israel would never allow Russian military hardware into Gaza?? Because Gaza is "pseudo-entity"?

even while perpetrating acts of war in Gaza, the West bank, and East Jersualem, as well as crimes against humanity in Gaza and East Jerusalem.

Now this is absurd. What crimes against humanity in East Jerusalem?

Second, Israel is not at war with Hamas, either; Hamas is the dominant party in the legislature of the Palestinian Authority. Going to war with Hamas would be like if someone were to declare war on the United States' Democratic party.

Gaza is ruled by Hamas. You can play with that as you want and hide behind definitions that do not apply - like Democrats not throwing Republics out of parliament in US and not shoot them on streets for opposing them - but on the ground all is done with Hamas in control. Palestinian authority has the same weight in Gaza as South Korean government in North Korea. According to you Israel cannot respond to acts of aggression against its citizens because you cannot legally define who exactly commits this aggression? This is easy - it is done by terrorists from Gaza that is led by Hamas. As simple as that.
All international envoys do not discuss Gaza issues with Fatah. They speak with Hamas. They seem to not notice the same legal woes you notice.
Israel declared Hamas-led Gaza a hostile entity. I think it pretty much is the situation.

Perhaps if Israel were to lift its illegal blockade - and yes, under international law and rules of war, it IS illegal - it would get fewer rockets?

Rockets came before the blockade and there was huge increase in their numbers after Israel unilaterally removed its settlers from Gaza. So stopping the blockade would not stop the rockets, Hamas does not recognize Israel and it fights Israel. Not settlements or blockade.
I personally do not think that blockade is helping since it creates manpower for Hamas but i can understand people in the Southern Israel who say that Hamas will only get better weapons and use it against Israel if blockade is removed.
They live under rocket threat for more then a decade - with casualties,panic,sirens ,stress and economical problems. Gaza is worse? Yes it is. But it is not Israeli responsibility. Southern Israel is. So Israeli government does all it can to help its citizens, as it should. Hamas might learn a little about that. But to them all Palestinians are just martyr "meat" available to be used against Israel.

And for the record? Hamas does not fire explosive rockets. They are basically rocket-propelled bullets. Hezbollah has actual explosive rockets; Hamas does not.

Your record lacks.
www.youtube.com...
See the burned cars? Bullet. Riiight.
There are explosives, from half a kg to 10 kg in new ones.

And yes, over a period of ten years, those rockets have killed 27 people. Wanna see something interesting, though?

See this first:
www.youtube.com...
And there were periods that this happened several times every night. Same city targeted, with kids and such. Car crashes, crime is random.
So this is not a comparison. As a test spend nights for a few months with crying kids in bomb shelter with sirens wailing and then you clearly will get it.