Energy wars: Iraq and oil

Ninety percent of the posters are inagreement that we invaded this nation to steal its oil reserves. If this was the only reason why have not gas prices dropped below $1.25 per gallon nation wide. Many wall street investers predicted such a thing would most likely happen It did not and the reason is there oil is being sold to finance our occupation. I woiuld think that this is a small price to pay for there liberation.
Lets move away from the humanitarin crisis that is evolving in Iraq and view this as a geopolitical event. The capital of the Muslim empire is Bagdad and he who controls it, controls all Muslims on the globe. This is not fantasy on my part but a fact known by Muslims. Saddam was more than a dictator. He was a thorn in the side of Bin Ladden. By controlling Iraq, Saddam, stoled the throne of the Muslim Empire from Bin Ladden.
To sum this up. We, the United States overthrew Saddam and than again stole the seat of power away from Bin Ladden once again.
Is it not obivious why so many foreign fighter are in Bagdad and other parts of Iraq. They are there fighting in the name of Bin Ladden not the Iraqi citizen.

Originally posted by flycatch
Ninety percent of the posters are inagreement that we invaded this nation to steal its oil reserves. If this was the only reason why have not gas prices dropped below $1.25 per gallon nation wide.

Because Bush and his neocons want to keep the gas prices high so that the money Americans spend on gas can go into their pockets and the pockets of the executives.

At this point in time the US is literally stuck on war as a means of preserving our economy. 7 trillion dollars of debt and a massive trade defecit has put us on an unstable peak that demands we maintain use of the dollar for world commerce by force and control the world's most valued commodity by any means necessary.

The only other alternative is to start resolving the national debt and to use government funds to spin up the US industrial, technology, and agricultural sectors so we can stabilize the dollar and maintain it's strength against the Euro.

This is not an alternative to a US administration composed entirely of oilmen and defense experts. I truly wish it was, because it's a tried-and-true method compared to the gambit of going further into debt and risking military disaster. It's also a more honest method and will create less enemies. It would also be better in case of another terrorist attack.

If this was the only reason why have not gas prices dropped below $1.25 per gallon nation wide.

OMG! Is that all you pay for fuel. I live in a coastal town in Australia and at the moment petrol costs me $1.13 Au per litre. This converts to about $3.16 US per gallon. This is disgusting, considering Australia can supply 80% of it's own fuel requirements.

Maybe the oilmen like uncertainty driving the oil prices up. Production costs don't increase so high oil prices , I would assume, equates to higher profits.

Actually Iraq as now is not very cost efficient when it comes to oil right now too many bombings on the oil pipes and to many time expend in fixing the problem.

Sometimes I agree with the pipelines bombings from the people of Iraq so the US cannot cash on their resources.

Originally posted by marg6043
Sometimes I agree with the pipelines bombings from the people of Iraq so the US cannot cash on their resources.

So, essentially, you hope US troops cannot secure Iraq. Very thoughtful.

Originally posted by flycatch
. If this was the only reason why have not gas prices dropped below $1.25 per gallon nation wide.

This is always mentioned in discussions like these. Look outside the boxz man, Does it really matter what the oil prices are like now? The Bush administration has now got Americas foot in the middle east, sitting upon huge oil supplies, right near Saudi to keep them safe too (remember how America will actually economically collapse without Saudi money) This is the point, America will always have perminant bases in the middle east, and control as they have now installed a government. Who knows what the elections will be like in January.

And this war will continue. Iran is next.

Originally posted by mrmulder


www.janes.com...
www.fromthewilderness.com...
www.fromthewilderness.com...
edition.cnn.com...
www.fromthewilderness.com...
www.fromthewilderness.com...

Yes, the peak oil theory is one well covered on the net. It is a worrying preminition. I do feel however that oil companies already possibly have technology they are with holding to replace oil but are waiting for the 'peak oil' scenario so they can make alot of money. But it is startling when you read prominent geologists predict that the world could be in chaos in a few decades. I certainly wouldn't rule it out.

to reaffirm your theory i quote the great Noam Chomsky "the resources of the region are one of the greatest sources of strategic power and the greatest prizes in human history" while we sit at our computers it is easy to label these actions as diabolical, seriously though they are step ahead of the game. immoral or not they realize things are not the same, other nations will rival the dominance of the US, steps must be taking in order to secure our supiority! while we have the edge, we can keep it. it is obvious there some tough times ahead, for completely disregarding our responsibilities to our mother earth, and abusing our all too convinient modern privilages, we definatly have it coming. i am not a greedy person, i do not condone their actions, i also try to limit my oil constumption, and question each and every level of government rule. lead by example! the amazing thing to me is that bushes comrades make up the entire US economy. this is definatly the most damning evidence for their motives. things are going to get awfully hairy, i guess its time to grab some popcorn and watch the destruction of our beloved earth unfold. this is some good popcorn

Originally posted by sturod84
other nations will rival the dominance of the US, steps must be taking in order to secure our supiority!

This is true, and the Middle East gambit is a move to secure the US dollar and economic dominance. However, it is a stop-gap solution that requires massive deceit, pain and suffering for all involved, and will not lead to long-term resolution.

There is a better method that doesn't kill anyone, makes life better, and is a permanant solution.

1. Work to resolve US national debt
2. Spur US industry, technology, and agriculture to shore up trade deficit
3. Ensure we don't have any more stock scandals
4. Safeguard homeland
5. Change US trade policy to minimize trade deficit.

"1. Work to resolve US national debt
2. Spur US industry, technology, and agriculture to shore up trade deficit
3. Ensure we don't have any more stock scandals
4. Safeguard homeland
5. Change US trade policy to minimize trade deficit."

im not too good with economics, but ill take my best shot. all of the outsourcing must have some rather damaging effects. wouldnt trade deficit and debt be harder to stabalize due to increasingly stiff foreign competition? seeing as we spend 900,000,000,000,000,000 on defense we should be pretty safe. spuring our goods and services is easier said then done. i am sure the flood of illigals and population boom is also not making it any easier. also there is always the variable, that the govt knows something we dont.

The only reason foreign competition is getting better is because we're allowing it to happen. The US is still the world's technological, agricultural, and industrial leader, but this is slipping. The reason we were all of those things is because of the massive resources of this country, a very business-friendly government, and good education among the population in a stable social environment and one of the best places on the Earth to live, which brought great foreign minds here. If we let our country become an uneducated service economy where the quality of life sucks, we'll be outdone by competitors.

it would apear as though that is the direction we are headed...

btw civ hands down best game ever

[edit on 14-9-2004 by sturod84]

Maybe US instead of spending money and manpower to fight this countries for control of oil should concentrate on alternative energy, after all it will be lest expensive and it will cost lest life than a war with Iran and an envolment in Saudi Arabia.

This brings me to the point that no body in this government has ever ask us the people of this country what we really want.

The huge amount of money spent on weapons could easily have been spent on a system that brings energy from the sun. A huge solar geostatic station above US, with fat electric wires going down a mountain, could be easily constructed and solve the US energy problems once and for all.

Originally posted by Editor

If this was the only reason why have not gas prices dropped below $1.25 per gallon nation wide.

OMG! Is that all you pay for fuel. I live in a coastal town in Australia and at the moment petrol costs me $1.13 Au per litre. This converts to about $3.16 US per gallon. This is disgusting, considering Australia can supply 80% of it's own fuel requirements.

Maybe the oilmen like uncertainty driving the oil prices up. Production costs don't increase so high oil prices , I would assume, equates to higher profits.

Lol, and you think you pay much?

Over here its about 1.20 € per liter for Super 98 and 0.980€ for Diesel.
That callculates to 1.47$ per liter for Super 98 and 1.20$ per liter for Diesel.
Wich is 5.57$ per gallon for Super 98 and 4.54$ per gallon for Diesel.

And the prices are still rizing.

Our present administration greed for the oil in the middle east is creating the terrorist of now and the terrorist of the future if you think what the government feed you that the terrorist problem is the spread of Islam and they hate our "freedom" it perhaps has some true, but actually they see the over taking of their lands and resources and US will never ever be able to take control of that region, US does not own the middle east and all this country is going to do is make our economy worst trying to control a region that will never allowed the US to take control.

These people will blow their oil lines over and over in order to avoid US to cash on their resources.

And guess what regardless what most of you think that is their right that is their oil.

Originally posted by marg6043
Our present administration greed for the oil in the middle east is creating the terrorist of now and the terrorist of the future

And guess what regardless what most of you think that is their right that is their oil.

Well you wonder how much that terrorist threat was engineered. We know that they lied about the WMD threat, we know theydefinately lied at least partly about 9-11. I mean they said they had " no advance warning of this attack " and yet hours after as the tower and pentagon still smoulder they have already named their man. It's crazy.

Remember these people had a plan, and wether or not they allowed 9/11 to take place they still needed that even and a series of others to put in motion the 'war on terror' which has let them accomplish their already laid out plan. This is a horrible, underhand administration that has absoloutely hideous links to oil, arms and Suadi Arabia which any nation should say, " this person has a conflict of interest." It doesn't matter though it is the money from above, the string pullers.

I just whish Americans could see that this "WAr on terror" is nothing more than a hype of a problem that has always been there, they are using it to scare the # out of people and get their way. It's very clear. I mean they make it out like terrorism is this horrible new threat from out of nowhere.

Patriotism = Asking questions , not following blindly.

I don't think it's bad that Americans are decieved. If they're ignorant enough to believe bald-faced lies, that's their own problem. What I don't agree with is the act of deception and the cost in human lives and US dollars that our economic policies create.

Saddam's decision for Iraq switching to Euros in 2000 for oil trading and national reserve recieved exactly the fallout that the Iraqi dictator knew it would precipitate: commitment of US military to enforce the use of the dollar as the de facto trade currency of the world. This is an extremely dangerous play.

The massive US economy has generated a nation of wealth in which control of the strongest currency in the world has let this country absorb astronomical debt and completely forgo trade parity. A rapid switch of the global economy from US dollars to Euros would cause a US economic implosion of unprecedented scale, and global depression with all its uncertainties and dangerous variables would follow in the wake. This was a direct threat to the United States that was far more dire than any possible WMD. We did not have to respond militarily to safeguard our economy, but Saddam predicted we would, and we did.

Iran's switch to the Euro in 2002 no doubt helped get them on the Axis of Evil list. OPEC talk of switching to trade in Euros was enough to bring the hammer down on the Persian Gulf.

With 80% of the world currency trade dominated by the US dollar, the US seven trillion dollars in debt and a trade deficit running in the order of $450 billion dollars, economic confidence in the dollar must be maintained at all costs. The gambit is US control of the world's most valued commodity and essentially an armed enforcement of the US dollar.

Saddam's tactic was to draw the United States into a war that it cannot afford to win economically and cannot sustain politically. The outing of Ahmed Chalabi as an Iranian spy seemed politically expedient in the light of his failed visions of an Iraq that would welcome liberators, but it suddenly seems quite possible that this convicted bank fraud had every intention of drawing the US into the flytrap.

The possibility of massive US failure in the Gulf is very real. As the insurgency increases, political support for the war decreases in the US republic. Without changing the nature of the republic itself, which could cause massive division domestically, the government through its representatives will lose support for the war until the point that a politician publicly supporting the war is politically untenable. This could be brought about by increased and sustained violence in Iraq, or by an escalation of the war into Iran and other neighboring Gulf states.

By going to war, the US has thrown a pair of dice to determine its economic future. We are at a critical economic juncture entirely dependent on the performance of our military, which in the case of insurgencies has not been historically good. Running a massive military campaign creates too many expenditures for us to shore up the US dollar in other ways, such as effectively resolving the US debt, or priming national industry and technology sectors to shore up the trade deficit.

The US may have made one of the biggest mistakes in US foreign and economic policy by invading Iraq. Success or failure now depends entirely on the success of the Iraqi mission and on the capabilities of our leaders and military. This does not include the possible effects of more US stock scandals or another massive terrorist strike.

When we have a president who cannot pronounce the three-syllable word 'nuclear,' one doesn't feel a lot of confidence. Fortunately, our military is far more capable than our political leaders. Pray for the success of their mission and safe return home. We are in a dangerous situation strategically and economically for at least five more years.

Going back to the wars on oil, now to make matters more clear to the people that still thinks that we are not about oil in Iraq the last blow was thrown into our faces when bush decide to allocated our tax payer money for security in Iraq not for the people of Iraq bush care's not if they get blown everyday and so our soldiers but to safe guard the oil fields in that country, not only the tax payer is paying for this fiasco of the war but we are paying for safe guarding the investments of Cheney Halliburton and bushies familily.

But that is ok he is a great president and he will keep us safe.

You are totally right marg, however the Iraqi's would always need the oil secure becuase it is the countries livleyhood.

Originally posted by earthtone
You are totally right marg, however the Iraqi's would always need the oil secure becuase it is the countries livleyhood.

Yes it is but ( I know I will get hit for this one ) Sadam was doing a pretty good job on keeping them safe and our tax payer money was not needed over there.

Looking at what US has brought to that country I will say that country was better of with Sadam in power, At least over 1000 or our soldiers will still be alive right now.

let's not forget "civilian casualties"