French youths protest over higher retirement age

French youths protest over higher retirement age

One word,
LAZY

seriously French people! 62 is still the youngest in Europe! show some love for your country!
"Ask not what your country can do for you...But what you can do for your country!" John F. Kennedy

Brandishing "Save our Pensions!" banners, students who haven't even entered the job market yet are already worried about what happens when they leave it.

Welcome to France, where workers' rights are so deeply entwined into the culture that even teenagers are unsettled about plans to raise the retirement age from 60 to 62, which is still among the lowest in Europe. The reform protest brought nearly a million people out into the streets across the country Thursday.

Young people fear they will lose the most from President Nicolas Sarkozy's pension reforms, which aim to cut France's ballooning deficit and make the money-losing pension system break even starting in 2018.
news.yahoo.com...

As a young person they have a point, the economy is messed yes but its not our fault, we should not fix it, but we should change it so it does not come to these problems.

All i see when people work to 60+ is people working then dying, no real time to enjoy all the years they put in. when they are old and less able.

reply to post by thecrow001
There is people that retire way before 65 (that is the retirement age in "FAT AND LAZY" America) there is this thing called work ethic and it seems that France's youth is lacking in it.
Most people I know that are my age (24) are not even depending on their government "pension" to retire, they are investing in 401k's and other instruments to guarantee their retirement. If you are hoping the nanny state will take care of you are betting on the wrong horse my friend!.

I guess here in America we are more self reliant and most of us are not dependant on big brother government to come rescue us (Katrina victims exempt from this description)

reply to post by Just Wondering


Thing is, the retirement age is relative - in the sense that if you've been told you can retire at age X and then your government change the rules, you're going to be a bit annoyed.

They're putting it up to 70 (for males) here in the UK, I am fairly confident I will work until I die. I know this will sound dreadfully naive, but in a FREE DEMOCRACY that we live in, surely we should be treating our senior citizens with dignity and respect, allowing them to reflect on the (hopefully) hard work they've put in contributing to society and to live out their twilight years in peace?

Originally posted by jokei
reply to post by Just Wondering

 

Thing is, the retirement age is relative - in the sense that if you've been told you can retire at age X and then your government change the rules, you're going to be a bit annoyed.

They're putting it up to 70 (for males) here in the UK, I am fairly confident I will work until I die. I know this will sound dreadfully naive, but in a FREE DEMOCRACY that we live in, surely we should be treating our senior citizens with dignity and respect, allowing them to reflect on the (hopefully) hard work they've put in contributing to society and to live out their twilight years in peace?

Agreed.. UK retirement age will soon be 70. This is then expected to rise to 75.

How do they expect us to work till that age with all the health problems associated with that age? I expect i wont even be able to wipe my own bum by then.

F*** the goverment

I expect a civil war/revolution here in UK very shortly. When it comes Ill quite happily stand on the frontline.

Worldwide, the "pressure" is sure to increase, for everyone to not only work longer, but harder, as the global economy collapses, no matter what our age happens to be.

Here in the USA, most non-wealthy "retirement age" folks must continue to toil, essentially as long as their health holds out. Of course, this is far from the official fantasy, but like it or not, that's the direction most of the world must head. A couple of reasons: First, the world economy, as it has unfolded over the past decades, was always unsustainable. Most people are aware that the original "retirement age" set in the US during the Roosevelt Administration, was originally just the usual political empty promise. Statistics showed that most Americans would never collect on the promise, based on the mortality rates of the era.

But the equation changed. On one side of the retirement benefit equation, the old mortality rates fell, due to things like medical advancements, lifestyle changes, etc.. On the other side of the equation, an ever-expanding work force, that could always pay more into the system, suffered as well. Widely available abortion, changing social norms (like smaller families being more desirable), changing immigration policies...it all led to our currently aging population "problem".

But if that's the problem, then what's the solution? The powers that be seem to be in agreement that at minimum, people must work longer. Given the lies of the past, perhaps it makes sense. But this would only be if they chose the "softer, gentler" approach. The other approach is far more grisly. War, famine, flat-out extermination. These "tools" can also be used!

So, all of us can complain about these changes, but the bigger picture is that our masters may have a different agenda. Many people think that one of the goals that the elite have, is to basically make us slaves, to toil on a worldwide "plantation", a future dystopia of their making. Lots of reasons to believe this, and if it's true, then the French, as well as the rest of us, have much bigger problems than working a few more years.

A question beneath the issue could be brought out too, namely, what of the "morality" of this situation? In other words, how do we feel about how our parents or grandparents should be treated, after so many years of contributing to a system? The answers can be all over the board of course, but it could be a good starting point.

Years ago, in one of my previous careers, I worked at a company, managed a department, etc. This company had the rather noble "policy" of trying to hire older people, and as a result, there were a number of folks well into their 70's that worked there. My oldest employee was 68, but she was "young" compared to some! One day, I was chatting with the old lady who worked in the mail-room, and she was just dying of her aches and pains it seemed. I tried to be diplomatic, wondering "how she could keep going" at age 79...

She explained that she had "no choice". Her husband, older than she was, needed medications that simply were not fully covered under Medicare. I still wasn't getting it. She went on to tell me that Medicare left a monthly medical deficit of over $2,000 per month for this elderly couple! SO, she worked, mainly for the BENEFITS that the job provided, which left her a bit to buy "dog food" at the end of the month. Surely, she was joking...

Sadly, this very hard working woman was only one of several that I spoke to over a period of four years, each with similar stories.

Is it any wonder that almost ANY medical coverage today could be pushed through Congress in the USSA? Anything might be better than virtually nothing. And "nothing" is what millions in America have in terms of true medical coverage.

Yes, I drifted into "medical", vs. retirement, but they're intimately related of course. What would be nice is a real, "comprehensive" solution...

But that would never fly in the US...maybe in France?

JR

It is different here in the U.S. most people aren't holding their breath hoping the government will keep their end of the bargain.

reply to post by Just Wondering


Trust me, no one is doing that here (UK) either, I'd be surprised if anyone actually believed their government(s) to keep promises.

I don't think it means the French are lazy because they're protesting, quite the opposite.

There is no other option than to rise retirement age. People are living longer, and demographicaly the ratio of retired people to working people is increasing. The pension system is not set in stone, and must change with the society changing. Another option is to lower the pensions, but that would be an unpopular solution, too.

France is taxed a lot more, so they get to retire sooner, you essentially buy an earlier retirement with tax dollars. So if you in high and mighty America decide you wanted to save more money from the day you enter the work force so that you can retire a few years before your peers, that would make you lazy? Having money for the future, is lazy? Why would you take the higher tax and also get less for it than the previous generation of workers? I don't see your logic I guess.

The youth are probably Muslim immigrants they always cry foul
lets not forget they want to turn french into a islamica junk town.



I feel sad for french.

Do not forget they are to be to blamed for the last chaos they caused.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by Agent_USA_Supporter]

It might make sense to raise it here too. The baby boomers are always bragging about how 55 is the new 45, well maybe 75 is the new 65!

What F's me off more is that these kinda of policys only effect those on the bottom, the upper-middle class can retire at 50+ if they put enough money aside. The people setting these policys will surely retire when they feel like it. As for those working #, dead end jobs? Well, you work till you die, your not entitled to life.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


I am so tired of the Entitled view. If you have a dead end job then go to school and work for something better. Make the tuff choices while your young. If you live in America and end up with a dead end job at age 60, excluding the handicapped, you are and have been a Lazy sack of .....

Just Wondering, I find your interpretation of things very prejudiced.
I'm 24, French, and I was on strike last Thursday. Yes, I protested against the pension system reform. No, I did not want to protect "my" pension. I protested for my father's pension. He's 57.
Most of those French youths were not protesting to defend their pension, but that of older people around them. I found that your interpretation of things depicted them as selfish.
To be frank, most French youths are pretty disillusioned when it comes to their pension. They're starting to put money aside because more and more of them are starting to believe they might not be any "system" left when they reach old age.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


It's pretty obvious you have no idea what you're talking about. So the Muslims are the only ones that cause trouble in France? Nice to try and defend our public image, but that's not the case. Revolting against the power in place has been a French tradition for centuries.
I can assure you that the proportion of well-to-do, white-bread, "respectable" people in the demonstrations last Thursday was similar to that they have in the French population.

[edit on 30-6-2010 by Breizhoo]

Originally posted by sensible thought
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

I am so tired of the Entitled view. If you have a dead end job then go to school and work for something better. Make the tuff choices while your young. If you live in America and end up with a dead end job at age 60, excluding the handicapped, you are and have been a Lazy sack of .....

Make education free and more widely availible and people will make good use of it. Education was poor in the first place, its not the fault of just 1 person, its partly the fault of a system DESIGNED to produce nothing but unskilled workers.

Heres a little free education for you.
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by sensible thought
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

I am so tired of the Entitled view. If you have a dead end job then go to school and work for something better. Make the tuff choices while your young. If you live in America and end up with a dead end job at age 60, excluding the handicapped, you are and have been a Lazy sack of .....

Make education free and more widely availible and people will make good use of it. Education was poor in the first place, its not the fault of just 1 person, its partly the fault of a system DESIGNED to produce nothing but unskilled workers.

Heres a little free education for you.
www.youtube.com...

Great discussion. Not sure there are any "easy" solutions though. Probably better education can't hurt, and there's nothing wrong with being more industrious, working smarter, etc. But it's a big societal issue, and it ties in to so much more.

I brought up the medical issue in my earlier post, not to take steam out of the retirement issue, but because you really can't talk about the one, without the other.

"What if" a person didn't have to worry about medical issues in retirement? What would that do to a person's decision making process during their working years? Would anything change?

Interestingly, society as a whole seems to have come to the realization that this may be an issue that can't just be ignored. Today, when we hear about the various public medical schemes being promoted, "Obamacare", Canadian / UK "socialist" medicine, etc., they always must give a nod to the spectre of the general public health. And this is a legit issue of course.

In America, we have the illegal aliens who are usually said to overwhelm the public medical services in some areas. But even that being the case, it will also be said that to turn them away could be worse for the general population. Certainly when speaking of infectious disease, public health must go beyond individual responsibility / financial concerns.

I live rather close to the Canadian border, so I have plenty of experience speaking to people about Canadian health care. You know, it's virtually unanimous, from those I have spoken to, that the Canadian system is superior in most important respects, to what the US has (or rather, doesn't have!). No, I'm not necessarily an advocate of socialized medicine, there is obviously a downside.

But in speaking to real people, folks who came from Canada to live and work in the US, decades ago, all of these folks that I know, retain their Canadian citizenship, they say, because they need Canadian healthcare in their old age. They are well aware of what the US offers, and it isn't much when it comes right down to it. A few that I can think of have good pensions too, and retain private medical benefits, and yet, they will not give up their Canadian health safety net.

Medicine. A huge related issue. Americans are stuck in a system that is radically influenced by one of the most "immoral" industries history has ever produced, "Big Pharma". Years ago, when my father was still alive, he would always ask me to get him various medicines when I went to Canada. Yes, you could buy the same medicines in Canada, so much cheaper. Should this issue be swept aside?

The older you get, the more you will understand how important the medical is. And the hardest thing to deal with is that it is largely something you can't effectively plan for. If you become disabled, and end up with massive medical bills, it won't matter if you were hard working your whole life. Given the magnitude of these type of expenses, it may not even matter how educated or smart you were either! The fact is, only the very wealthiest can "afford" serious illness (in the US system anyway).

Is this right?

JR