England knocked out by Germany - AGAIN!!! Why??

Oh no not again... but it was always gonna happen, why are we all stupid enough to imagine otherwise???

The England shirt is a curse, it must weigh about 20 kilos...

WHAT IS IT about the English mentality that makes this happen again and again?

(.... but hey it's not all bad. we just beat the Aussies at cricket again (and have taken the series now).... and I just remembered, i'm 3/8ths german!!)

Seriously though, what is it about the mind-set of our football team that makes this kind of loss inevitable?

23

Chill out friend, no conspiracy here!

Disappointed? oh yes, in a big way!

I've just spent the last two hours ranting on about 'that decision'!

I will argue with anyone until death, that decisions like that change games..... They do, pure and simple fact. It's a phsychological thing. After half time England were 'chasing the game' ......end of!

Had the goal stood......... well, could have been 10-2 to Germany! But the phsycological state of the England players would have been , without doubt , different to what it was. And the result!

Bottom line is this...... Time for goal line cameras! in fact twenty years too late! Either that or a 'goal mouth official' either way the time for technological improvements is way overdue!

We went out because we didn't play well enough. End of story. Yes, a bad decision went our way, but it was a quick one, and if the ref didn't see it, then he just can't call it. Simple as that man. Sure, it would have completly changed the game and I could still be in the pub. But it's a bit of a mute point, cos this is how it ended.


There's no conspiracy, England haven't played a decent game for the tornament. There's no 2 ways about it, we've never looked like the winning team. It's sucks to say it, (trust me cos I'm England till I die. Had 3 flags on me house until about an hour ago) but there's no point in hiding behind the fact that the england football team, this year, were just utterly hopeless.

Never mind like, it's only game
(looking forward to reading of idiotic behaviour in the papers tomorow, where towns have been nuked by pissed up football "fans" I do love to see how far from grace we've fallen )

Germany weren't great, England were crap.

The set up was all wrong, and our best players weren't playing to their strengths.

The germans played a 4231, and 451 system, which will beat 442 every time, simply because the extra midfielder gets between the 2 banks of 4 and creates havoc.

Terry was out of position, and the same for Gerrard and Rooney.

Rooney plays best as a lone striker, but was playing behind defoe. Gerrard wide left? Do me a favour - geez.

If we had set up as 4231, with King instead of upson, Lampard and Barry as the anchors, with Gerrard just behind Rooney, we would have been fine, especially with cole on the left and milner on the right - which would also have left the fullbacks free to attack, because barry could cover either side, depending on the focal point.

also posted in world cup thread

England have been rubbish in the 25 years I've been watching them, we've had a few good games but on the whole we can't really perform on the international stage.

I think the problems are deeply rooted from the way our youngsters learn to pley the game. I mean playing under 11's on a full size pitch with a size 5 ball, is how most of us grew playing football. Kids get less touches on the ball and any skills are normally discouraged. We need to start looking at what other countries are doing.

look at the Mexico Argentina game tonight, both teams could confidently pass the ball around on the deck, England always need an extra touch or are afraid of the ball completely. we need to sort things out from the bottom up, if we ever want to be taken seriously as a great footballing nation again.

apparently the England under 17 team are meant to be pretty good, probably could of done a better job than the main team, couldn't of done much worse.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Fair points.

As an illustration of those points, here's something to ponder.

Rafa Benitez managed to get Barca's youth team coach to come to Liverpool - the first thing he said was that the young lads weren't playing to any system or being educated in tactics etc so he brought in the Barca model which is that every player, from the youngest kids up, all learn to play systems, all work on ball skills, and play in the same way through every level, with emphasis on close control, moving into space and giving and receiving the ball.

We like to think because we have one of the most watched leagues, that it makes us good - but the sad fact is that in England, a tackle sliding in from 5 yards or a tough challenge or a 30 yard shot that does nothing means more than the tactical aspects of the game and the simple pass and move.

Until that changes, and our league systems change we are always going to struggle in international tourneys.

Yes, i'm Scottish, but I will give you a completely unbiased opinion of why I think England went out -


From game 1 against the USA it was very obvious that England were just not with it at all.

Apart from Steven Gerrard, the rest of the team looked very nervous,sluggish, out of fitness and lacking drive to win.

The horrendous mistake by their goalkeeper only amplified things.

I remember saying to people after this game, that if England did not pick up their game considferably, then they would really struggle to make it past the group stage.

They battle past the group stage, but anyone with an unbiased view could see that as soon as they hit good opponents, they would suffer a big defeat, and that they did.

Again, against the Germans, they lacked fitness, speed, stamina. the Germans looked on a completely different fitness level from the English indeed.

There were several defensive blunders, especially by the experienced, John Terry who was a complete mess trying to deal with the germans pace.

Another thing that I feel ruined their chances, were the fact that Wayne Rooney was relied upon way too much and it did not pay off. Rooney looked amateurish from Game 1 against the USA and yet he still kept being played into the ground by his selectors.

Rooney played abismally in every game and should have been taken off at half time against the Germans. Was he even fit????

And what the heck was Emille Heskey even in the squad for??? The guy has proven over the years to shoot blanks. He never performs, he is crap!!

That my own opinion. england looked a sorry sight, and anyone who actually thought they could come out and compete with the Germans were seeing things from a very one sided view.

England were destined to go out straight afer their terrible draw against the USA.

reply to post by budski


excellent observations from all of you. i personally think that our academy system is all wrong, but there is also a deeper flaw in the mentality of our professional sportsmen that may well be an inherent flaw in us as a nation. something to do with our history as an (ex) empire....

also... just think, if green hadn't fluffed that goal against usa... - had we finished top of the group, it would have been so different..

23

Great thread, as an Englishman who has watched every England game since 1970, this was the most shambolic ever witnessed.
I hade grave doubts about Capello from the start ,and he is to blame for the amateur tactics he deployed.
ENGLAND HAS NEVER EVER played a high backline against Germany prior to this match.
Watch the video of England v Germany66, England v Germany 70, England v germany 90, England v Germany 96, England v germany 2201 (5 v1 to England) they played on the counterattack in all games.
All world class teams sit back at international level and then pick the time up the pace change gear when the TIME IS RIGHT.
THey dont leave two world class speedy wingers on the bench, and have a manager tell them the wingbacks will push up almost to the penalty area and leave the centre halves exposed to the german counterattack.
Germany must have thought all their xmases had come at once.
Gerrard is a selfish individual who set himself up as a roaming match winner, Lampard outshone him in attack, but in truth they both neglected their roles , neither of them suppied passes to defoe who was in goal scoring position several times , no Gerrard shot wide instead of passing at least three times.
Capello is culpable, Gerrard should never ever play for England again.
This is the sad truth.

England were crap, end of story.

England are always better when we take the game to the opponents from the kick -off and play attacking and aggressive football, which we did when we tortured Croatia twice, when we beat The Netherlands 4-1 and Germany 5-1.

When we try to play in any sort of continental style we repeatedly let ourselves down time and time again against good teams.

Defensively we were appaling.
Terry started the tournament well but by the time of the Germany game it was obvious he had lost all confidence in the tactics England were using.
Ashley Cole is supposed to be the 'best left back in the world'.
On those performances he can't be the best left back in the UK, he was pathetic.
Glen Johnson hardly covered himself in glory.
And on the few occassions they did push forward, most notably against Germany, no-one had the presence to pull back and cover and thus left the centre-backs completely exposed.

School boy errors tome after time.

I could go through the whole team and rip them apart one by one.

But I haven't got the time or inclination.

Absolutely disgusted with them.

I have followed England all over Europe and been to some absolute #holes doing so....and they have let me and the nation down time and time again...and do you know what...I just know deep down that i'm going to continue supporting them, because to me being a proud Englishman is a way of life and following the football team is just one aspect of it, and I also know that they will continue to let me down...wankers!!

Sorry for the rant...but it could have been much, much worse!