The Scientist ['Free Energy' Movie]

Zero-Point Energy, it's real.

He's right. Let's take an example, if I ran down to the local radio station and turned the transmitter off, do the radio waves suddenly disappear? No, only from the moment I flip the switch. Everything the radio station transmitted still exists in a bubble expanding at the speed of light.

Now here is the clincher: you don't exist beyond your age in light years. Zip, zilch, nada. If I were sitting in my office on an Earthlike planet on the other side of the Milky Way, right now at this very instant the human race has begun its ascent, and you won't be born for at least 100,000 years.

But do people consider these things? Mostly not, only the ones with "mad" minds like mine.

Originally posted by john_bmth
Is the movie going to be about the disturbing lack of scientific literacy among the populace? Going by the responses in this thread, I really hope it is.

According to imdb the genre of the movie is science fiction so I'm not sure why it's even in the science forum.

The Scientist

I love good sci-fi as much as the next guy, and sometimes science fiction becomes science fact. But just because there's a TV show called "Stargate" doesn't mean stargates are real, though if you read the ATS thread on stargates, apparently some people don't know where the line is between science and science fiction.

And I suspect this sci-fi movie may present similar issues.

The movie What the Bleep Do We Know!? obviously blurred the line between science and science fiction:

Academic reaction

Scientists who have reviewed What the Bleep Do We Know!? have described distinct assertions made in the film as pseudoscience.[17] Amongst the concepts in the film that have been challenged are assertions that water molecules can be influenced by thought (as popularized by Masaru Emoto),[3] that meditation can reduce violent crime rates,[8] and that quantum physics implies that "consciousness is the ground of all being." The film was also discussed in a letter published in Physics Today that challenges how physics is taught, saying teaching fails to "expose the mysteries physics has encountered [and] reveal the limits of our understanding." In the letter, the authors write "the movie illustrates the uncertainty principle with a bouncing basketball being in several places at once. There's nothing wrong with that. It's recognized as pedagogical exaggeration. But the movie gradually moves to quantum 'insights' that lead a woman to toss away her antidepressant medication, to the quantum channeling of Ramtha, the 35,000-year-old Atlantis god, and on to even greater nonsense." It went on to say that "Most laypeople cannot tell where the quantum physics ends and the quantum nonsense begins, and many are susceptible to being misguided," and that "a physics student may be unable to convincingly confront unjustified extrapolations of quantum mechanics," a shortcoming which the authors attribute to the current teaching of quantum mechanics, in which "we tacitly deny the mysteries physics has encountered."[5]

"Most laypeople cannot tell where the quantum physics ends and the quantum nonsense begins, and many are susceptible to being misguided"

Yes, I'd say that's the issue in a nutshell right there.

reply to post by jdmmade


Sure its real, but it ain't gonna do anything fer ya. Just like fusion.

Let's take the Sun. By my calculations (I collect old calculators so I am qualified to speak as a geek), the average energy density is .2 mw/kg. Now let's look at the human body. Its average is about 10w/kg. That is almost four magnitudes of difference. In other words, if the Sun were made of mammalian flesh it would be over five times hotter. Goes to show you the much touted "power" of fusion.

LMAO

Same with 0. Brownian motion brings virtual "particles" into momentary existence. Casimir effect demonstrates the mechanical conversion of this energy. Your space drive built on this principle will move noticeably long after your dead. It would be slower than the mail post, a glacier, or natural erosion. So don't even think about turning a shaft on a generator.

Other dead end energy sources:

Solar
Wind
Wood
Hydroelectric
Geothermal
Wave motion
Hydrogen
Coal
Oil (obvious that one :lol

Now nuclear holds promise. Fast breeders are clean, thorium are cleaner, the energy density is relatively high, enough to power a city on a few grains of sand. Induced beta decay is promising for end use. But you say, isn't fusion nuclear and that I am contradicting myself? What about the hydrogen bomb?

So you think all that energy was released by mashing two atoms together? Think again. A fusion bomb is a fission bomb on steroids.

Unfortunately as long as we hold misguided concepts dear, such as the four forces and standard model, we may never see the full potential of nuclear energy.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
According to imdb the genre of the movie is science fiction so I'm not sure why it's even in the science forum.

This is the science and technology forum.

Science includes the formulation of a hypothesis. One can look at a hypothesis as being fiction until it is proven.

I haven't seen this one yet, apparently about Keely/Tesla physics breakthroughs:




But I have seen this one, and it is highly recommended. It is about engineering Zero Point Energy. Dr. Thomas Valone has studied Zero Point/Vacuum Density very thoroughly...:

Google Video Link

[edit on 11-7-2010 by beebs]

reply to post by Arbitrageur

According to imdb the genre of the movie is science fiction so I'm not sure why it's even in the science forum.

It is here for good reason. If you do not agree with the physics of Tesla and Keely, and other pioneers, then so be it.

I cannot force you to like the science.

---

Please stay on topic, this thread is not about What the Bleep do You Know.

Anyone that has looked into the 'alternative' claims of magnetic turbines(basically backwords of regular ones) knows it is very compelling.

I find it interesting that an independent director, with a low budget film, has seized upon that idea and made a film out of it.

Using a permanent magnetic field for rotation is, IMO, absolute genius.

If somehow natural ZPE could be used to keep the magnets charged, then the system would sustain itself indefinately.

Compare the machine in the movie trailer to these:




And countless others if you have spent the time on YouTube.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Intentionally misguided, as we see by the majority of speakers on the subject. "free energy" is breaking out all over the place.

reply to post by Matyas

Intentionally misguided, as we see by the majority of speakers on the subject. "free energy" is breaking out all over the place.

Yes... Its not like we have been 'led astray' as Arbitrageur maintains.

I have seen and experienced the 'righteous path' of the mainstream, and it does not suit my rational faculties.

I was in a 1 credit physics class called 'From Quarks to the Cosmos', and we had a guest lecture from the head of the physics dept.

He was talking about gravitational waves, and how exciting they were, and how we were poised with new high precision laser technology to discover them.

So, being the philosopher in the classroom, I asked the obvious question:

"What medium is supposed to be propagating these 'gravitational waves'?"

He threw up his arms and shrugged... "Aether."

Why didn't he say it is space-time itself rippling?



The evidence is FOR an aetheric model.

How could Tesla and Keely accomplish so much, if they had the wrong idea?

Why did Hitler and his SS study Blavatsky and the 'occult'?

There is a bigger story here.

reply to post by beebs

It is here for good reason. If you do not agree with the physics of Tesla and Keely, and other pioneers, then so be it.

I cannot force you to like the science.

His point is that it is a Science FICTION movie. The topic of the post is specifically 'what do you think about this film'. Nobody has seen the film yet, so the only info is the synopsis and the trailer.

You asked for more info about the movie, then took it off topic yourself. Arbitrageur's post was actually on-topic as originally identified in your OP.

The fact that it is a Science FICTION movie means they can play with fictional devices and use them as a lever to discuss serious topics in an entertaining way. It is obvious that the movie isn't talking about 'free energy devices' even though it may use it as a plot device. It certainly is not a documentary on Tesla or Free energy.

The trailer has done its job to get people (including me) interested in the movie when it is finally released. Hopefully it will live up to its pre-release promise.

Originally posted by rnaa
You asked for more info about the movie, then took it off topic yourself.

This is not true.

Originally posted by beebs
This is very intriguing, as many ATS'ers know there is quite a debate surrounding suppressed alternative energy... Including ones that look just like the one in the movie. I have just seen the trailer, haven't seen the movie yet myself.

Yes... Its not like we have been 'led astray' as Arbitrageur maintains.

You have no idea where you are.

I have seen and experienced the 'righteous path' of the mainstream, and it does not suit my rational faculties.

If you are getting the feeling something isn't quite right, that is correct, but it stretches over a century of lies.

I was in a 1 credit physics class called 'From Quarks to the Cosmos', and we had a guest lecture from the head of the physics dept.

Appropriate as quarks don't exist, and this "head" was a talking one.

He was talking about gravitational waves, and how exciting they were, and how we were poised with new high precision laser technology to discover them.

Gravity is not a force (of its own) so there are no gravity waves to my knowledge.

Why didn't he say it is space-time itself rippling?

Isn't a radio wave a "ripple" in s/t?

The evidence is FOR an aetheric model.

Only s/t, not Aether. Aether does not compute into my equations.

How could Tesla and Keely accomplish so much, if they had the wrong idea?

Tesla accomplished a "free" energy device with cotton covered wires. So it can't be that hard. I don't recall Keely accomplishing anything.

Why did Hitler and his SS study Blavatsky and the 'occult'?

To accomplish the very same as is practiced today, but we are less obvious.

There is a bigger story here.

Yes, starting with that laser for the Dept. of Death.

reply to post by rnaa

His point is that it is a Science FICTION movie. The topic of the post is specifically 'what do you think about this film'. Nobody has seen the film yet, so the only info is the synopsis and the trailer.

You asked for more info about the movie, then took it off topic yourself. Arbitrageur's post was actually on-topic as originally identified in your OP.

The fact that it is a Science FICTION movie means they can play with fictional devices and use them as a lever to discuss serious topics in an entertaining way. It is obvious that the movie isn't talking about 'free energy devices' even though it may use it as a plot device. It certainly is not a documentary on Tesla or Free energy.

The trailer has done its job to get people (including me) interested in the movie when it is finally released. Hopefully it will live up to its pre-release promise.

Fair enough... but it was my intention to use the trailer and the movie as a springboard to launch a discussion about the actual 'fringe' concepts that the director was compelled to use in his film.

And apparently the movie is already out... as you can buy it from the directors site:
www.thescientistmovie.com...

Unless its a pre-order type thing... not sure. It says its also available on On Demand.. so I'm checking that out right now.

edit: Only new york and new jersey for on demand... disappointing.

[edit on 12-7-2010 by beebs]

Originally posted by Matyas

You have no idea where you are.

If you are getting the feeling something isn't quite right, that is correct, but it stretches over a century of lies.

Appropriate as quarks don't exist, and this "head" was a talking one.

Gravity is not a force (of its own) so there are no gravity waves to my knowledge.

Isn't a radio wave a "ripple" in s/t?

Only s/t, not Aether. Aether does not compute into my equations.

Tesla accomplished a "free" energy device with cotton covered wires. So it can't be that hard. I don't recall Keely accomplishing anything.

To accomplish the very same as is practiced today, but we are less obvious.

Yes, starting with that laser for the Dept. of Death.

I may need some clarification on some of your points here... and I will try to clarify some of mine.

I think you are correct that it is a century of lies... but even further back IMO.

I would say this particular battle for truth is THE battle for truth, as it stretches into whatever you might call 'religion' and the origin of mankind itself - and the technology/physics involved in the whole scheme.

I agree about the quarks... but only that our convenient term 'quarks' is missing the fundamental dynamic of the subatomic system. They are just discrete levels of wave functions.

See Mary Rose's thread for more on that debate(very lengthy).

Also, you may want to watch the entire 3 hour presentation by Dale Pond regarding Keely's physics(part 1 above). I just watched the whole thing, and it is very enlightening, as I knew nothing of the man(either Keely or Pond) before watching.

I also posted what Blavatsky(theosophy) thought of Keely's discoveries on page 1. He may have been just as important as Tesla... perhaps even moreso, as even less of his work appears to have made it through the ravages of corporate domination.

As for the radio waves rippling space time... not sure about that one... I doubt the mainstream would consider that is what is happening.

IMO many of our established ideas about physics will need to be re-examined in light of an aether model closer to Keely's and Tesla's.

What you call s/t, is empirically equivalent IMO to an aether-like substratum.

A fluid background = spacetime.

reply to post by Mary Rose

This is not true.

Mea Culpa

reply to post by rnaa


You are gracious to say so.

Thanks for the post.

"The Scientist" isn't working on 'alternate energy' or building a 'free energy' machine.

He is building a 'psychic energy' machine and using it to try and communicate with his dead wife and daughter.

Link: MOVIES: 'The Scientist' Offers a Clear Look at a Murky Subject

reply to post by rnaa


That makes sense in view of the "What happens when you die?" question in the trailer.

This piece of the quote from the director did sound like the need for free energy, though:

Originally posted by beebs
thescientistmovie.com...

I think I can safely 'reprint' the message from the director on this one, as he is very eloquent:

THE SCIENTIST . . .

. . . A large percentage of the world’s population spends their energy and resource on survival, on feeding themselves. They don’t have clean drinking water, their lives are plagued with disease, illness, corruption, injustice, death and tyranny on a scale vastly greater than what we ever have to deal with here. . . .

reply to post by rnaa

"The Scientist" isn't working on 'alternate energy' or building a 'free energy' machine.

He is building a 'psychic energy' machine and using it to try and communicate with his dead wife and daughter.

Perhaps they are not so different.

Atlin - What is it?

Atlin is the name of the first Dynasphere we constructed during the winter of 1995-1996. Dynaspheres, sometimes called Musical Dynaspheres, Globe Motors or Sphere Motors, were originally built in the 1880s by John W. Keely in Philadelphia. (See original Globe Motor.) They were made as a power source to drive industry. In those days there was only wind, water, steam and animal power. Eventually Tesla's system of AC power won out with powerful backing by George Westinghouse. When Keely died in 1898 all of his research and writings and nearly all of his machines disappeared. It is theorized Morgan and especially Carnegie did whatever was necessary to wipe Keely out of history. There are precious few traces left indicating he even existed. With these dynaspheres Keely was able to power different work loads and demonstrated a larger unit four feet in diameter built to power a locomotive. The dynasphere you see pictured throughout this web site is one I made (with a hand-chosen research team) in the winter of 1995-1996 as my effort to rediscover Keelys lost technology. These unique devices are not so-called perpetual motion machines, which are impossible. We may call them continuous motion machines much like a water wheel made to move continuously by an ever passing stream of water. A water wheel will rotate continuously as long as the water flows and it holds itself together. The dynasphere is designed to operate within the stream of vibratory energies passing to and from the earth and in conjunction to those vibrations of the "celestial" domain. See SVP Cosmology for details. A dynasphere is a fractal both of the earth and of atoms each of which rotate continuously without end. They use neither chemical or other expensive fuels and are completely nonpolluting. Is an atom or a rotating planet a perpetual motion machine? Of course not.

www.svpvril.com...

A few years ago a project was undertaken to create a machine to generate mechanical power that would produce useable electricity and drive machinery. This machine had been originally invented and built in the 1880s and did indeed generate mechanical power. The team, assembled to recreate this device, thought they could duplicate this instrument using modern technology. As innocent as this goal was - things turned out rather differently. The machine was built in a surprisingly short time. Did it successfully generate power? Not in the expected way but in a way so surprising as to be near unbelievable.

"All motion is thought, and all force is mind force." Keely

We thought we were building a Free Energy machine but instead discovered the machine evidenced self awareness and an ability to manipulate its environment. The machine was no longer just a machine. It evidenced a mind or living consciousness.

www.svpvril.com...

Originally posted by beebs
Perhaps they are not so different.

Atlin - What is it?

Atlin is the name of the first Dynasphere we constructed during the winter of 1995-1996. Dynaspheres...

www.svpvril.com...

Beebs,

I think this is absolutely fascinating.

Here's the photograph that the word "Dynaspheres" links to:




This website looks like a goldmine of information. I like what it says at the top of the page you linked to:

SVP = Sympathetic Vibratory Physics is the general field exploring the fundamental physics and phenomena of sound and vibration as these work in and through all known material and energetic matrices which includes Mind, Matter, Spirituality and their intimate linkages. SVP explores the harnessing of Mind Force in machinery and in our personal lives.